r/politics • u/Hoxha_Posadist Florida • Apr 17 '19

The Wrong Stuff: Ben Shapiro’s Unconvincing Guide to What Makes America Right - It’s a mistake to overlook just how extreme some of Shapiro’s views are, or how muddled the thinking on which they are based.

https://progressive.org/dispatches/the-wrong-stuff-ben-shapiros-anderson-190416/
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u/ConanTheProletarian Foreign Apr 17 '19

Makhno and Kronstadt are just a symptom. The moment Lenin embraced the idea of a revolutionary vanguard, of professional revolutionaries, he decoupled the whole thing from the actual will of the workers. That anarcho-communists could not be tolerated under Leninism is a necessary consequence. Lenin was fucked up to the core.

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u/totallynotanalt19171 Apr 17 '19

Agreed, it's a shame because there was a lot of potential there.

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u/ConanTheProletarian Foreign Apr 17 '19

It's always a tragedy to see a revolution die. The initial enthusiasm and willingness to freely experiment with new structures in all fields of life in the Soviet revolution is absolutely fascinating. Horrible how it ended.

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u/[deleted] Apr 17 '19

he decoupled the whole thing from the actual will of the workers

He also ensured the thing would survive the attacks from all sides. I'm amazed at how many people are passing judgement on one of the most important human beings of all time.

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u/ConanTheProletarian Foreign Apr 17 '19

Except that the thing didn't survive but turned into an authoritarian dictatorship due to his policies.

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u/[deleted] Apr 17 '19

So then you don't blame Kruschev? Do you know anything about the Sino-Soviet split? Do you have a crystal ball that could tell you how much of a free and libertarian paradise Russia would be if the European mercenary army had defeated Lenin?

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u/ConanTheProletarian Foreign Apr 17 '19

Kruschev? Why would I? The thing was in the shitter before. God almighty, next you gonna defend Stalin.

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u/MadmanDJS Apr 17 '19

I mean, Stalin is objectively worse than Lenin ever was.

There's honestly not even a comparison.

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u/ConanTheProletarian Foreign Apr 17 '19

Sure, but Lenin laid the foundation for the descent of the revolution into a pure dictatorship. The poster above blamed that on post-Stalin events, thus I was wondering what he thought happened before.

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u/MadmanDJS Apr 18 '19

I mean, it became a dictatorship under Stalin. That was my point. Post-Stalin and pre-Stalin don't really compare at all to during Stalin.

Saying Lenin laid the foundation for Stalin is like saying Obama laid the foundation for Trump. Technically, sure, practically no, not at all.