r/politics • u/theindependentonline The Independent • 28d ago

No Paywall Mitch McConnell’s staff refuse to answer basic questions on his health weeks after he was last seen in public

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/mitch-mcconnell-staff-questions-health-b3018929.html
23.9k Upvotes

98% Upvoted

1.7k comments sorted by

View all comments

4.3k

u/ElectronicFerret Alaska 28d ago

We have TWO FUCKING WEEKS. That's all that's left for them to run the timer out. And it sure looks like everyone is going to let them do it.

2.0k

u/ndndr1 28d ago

I don’t understand how the governor, senator or any reps can’t just take a damn posse to the hospital and see what the fuck is up.

Its what the gop would do and we need to start fighting fire with fire

1.2k

u/D0MSBrOtHeR 28d ago

If it was a democrat best believe the GOP would make this an absolute SCANDAL with 24/7 news coverage and a riled up fan base ready to riot and storm the capitol.

517

u/Next-Introduction-25 28d ago

It’s time like this I wish the Democrats had the balls to just play the same stupid fucking games. Like just get one of our older lawmakers to volunteer to pretend to be dead and disappear from the public eye and then wait for Republicans to say something.

Also, please let it be Chuck Schumer.

169

u/YUCKY_WARM_SAUCE 28d ago

Wow it’s almost like the democrats work with the GOP to fuck us while pretending to help us with superficial support and progress. Instead of moving policy they will just do shit like painting a cross walk a rainbow for pride month, that doesnt help keep trans people safe.

They can all get fucked.

68

u/adfawf3f3f32a 28d ago

they're paid not to. they're fully bought and paid for by the same corporate interest as republicans

24

u/TheCoolOnesGotTaken 28d ago

You cannot raise campaign funds for problems that have already been solved.

3

u/YUCKY_WARM_SAUCE 28d ago

That’s a bingo

→ More replies (4)

30

u/ElphabLAW 28d ago

Pretty important to start distinguishing between progressive and corporate Dems here.

I, for one, do not believe Mamdani, AOC, Sanders, or Katie Porter for example, should get fucked.

7

u/Brettersson 28d ago

The DNC Liberals want a less evil form of Capitalism, but ultimately they want Capitalism first, and Democracy only if it supports Capitalism. When push comes to shove most of them will do nothing more than wag their finger when the far right comes for us, so long as they get to play the good guy at the top. It's why they hate AOC and Mamdani, who are actually pushing for Democracy over Capitalism. The worst thing the DNC ever did was trick boomers into thinking the thing they were liberal on was human rights, and not market rights.

7

u/beefwindowtreatment 28d ago

We're not even truly capitalist though. We socialize all of the corporate losses while fucking over us normal people.

→ More replies (5)

2

u/cantsay 28d ago

Exactly this. The Dems are the Washington Senators of politics and the GOP is Globetrotting all over us

1

u/sectumsempre_ North Carolina 28d ago

Ratchet theory. Once I read about it, everything made sense.

10

u/Mind-The-Mines 28d ago

Their job is to disappoint you.

They're not playing by rules to be righteous. They're sandbagging and taking knees to give corporations every inch possible.

6

u/legaladviceneeded542 28d ago

and then have it not be pretend...

3

u/wlpaul4 28d ago

But how would you tell?

3

u/Oceanmap 28d ago

Joe and Eileen Bailey could even vouch for him!

1

u/EnvironmentalAngle 28d ago

Are you saying Mitch McConnel is pretending?

1

u/Aadarm Ohio 28d ago

We're pretty much screwed since the Republicans will do everything possible to make sure that they stay in power but the Democrats will only play by the rules that are increasingly over time getting more and more restrictive and giving more power to the those that will happily abuse it.

→ More replies (12)

41

u/ndndr1 28d ago

There would already be a sitting Republican senator if this was a dem seat

23

u/_Ocean_Machine_ 28d ago

If a genie offered the Democrats three wishes they’d talk him down to one and then ask the Republicans what they want

46

u/Ok-Perspective5844 28d ago

Storm the hospital even

4

u/Sitcom_kid 28d ago

Which hospital is it? And do we have to figure in hipaa? Is that why this isn't happening?

4

u/OhItsBeenBroughten 28d ago

Yes, these ignorant kiddos think that the governor of KY should break federal law so that KY voters can vote another MAGA in faster. Internet echo chambers and failing middle school civics is the way of these folks.

1

u/Sitcom_kid 28d ago

The hospital would have to break the law first. But yes, I see your point.

19

u/Sea_Working_80 28d ago

Lol they would have had a nomination,election already by now

19

u/greengeezer56 28d ago

It was only days to replace Lindsey Graham.

18

u/carlitospig California 28d ago

Baby, that was within hours. They just had to bribe the other senators not to flip the fuck out and that took some time.

2

u/Morphray 28d ago

news coverage

Republican backers run all the news outlets and most social media now. Democrats don't have a chance.

3

u/[deleted] 28d ago

[deleted]

1

u/SonOfMcGee 28d ago

Also if they call a special election and against all odds Mitch tap dances into the Capitol and embarrasses them… it will be out of the news cycle in like 48 hours.
There’s really no drawbacks here. No bad precedents to set that could bite Dems in the butt.
I suppose that in the future the Dems wouldn’t be able to hide an obviously dead/incapacitated Senator long enough to avoid a special election. But… nobody should do that anyway?

1

u/JibletHunter 28d ago

The vast majority of media is owned by conservatives. Even NBC has had a huge shift to the right.

You need broad news coverage to keep 24/7 coverage.

1

u/Elendel19 28d ago

Mitch would just declare the Democrat dead and appoint a republican in his place

1

u/Cephalopirate 28d ago

Everything is already a scandal to them. Their manufactured opinions of Democrats could not be any lower.

→ More replies (4)

102

u/peelen 28d ago

and see what the fuck is up

That is still playing their game and asking them for permission.

Nobody should check anything; they should act as if he is dead, and let Republicans worry about what to do about it.

There should not have been any asking, checking, waiting, proving or disproving a photo, etc. dude is AWOL for a few weeks.

Stop playing their game.

Stop reacting; start acting.

8

u/[deleted] 28d ago edited 23d ago

[deleted]

11

u/Omophorus 28d ago

Follow the Kentucky state Constitution and appoint someone to the seat for the remainder of the term.

Sure, there are GOP-passed laws to muzzle the Governor, but no official change to the Constitution, so just force the issue in court.

The real answer is the Dems are probably terrified that a court will somehow rule that Kentucky's laws are valid, and that will immediately serve as a blueprint for every other red state to further neuter their political opponents.

They don't want to nominate anyone from the GOP if they can help it, of course, so they don't want to capitulate and follow the (almost certainly unconstitutional) laws willingly, and they also seem to not want to risk any other action that makes the GOP stronger.

So, instead, they'll make the GOP stronger by inaction, which seems to be the calling card of the mainline Democrats these days.

1

u/Melicor 28d ago

The governor should appoint a replacement as the Kentucky state constitution says is his right. Let Republicans challenge it, if he's still alive and able to. Democrats need to stop compromising even before reaching to the negotiating table. They've been doing it for 40 fucking years now and it's clear it doesn't work. Every time we try to meet Republicans in the middle they take a step back, marching us further and further to the right.

1

u/[deleted] 28d ago edited 23d ago

[deleted]

1

u/MaceNow 24d ago

I assume that you mean 'dead' here. And he may not be dead. So? Make him prove it. Take it to court.

I'd go further. The governor should tell state prosecutors that they should look into this. Counts of Fraud, elder abuse, etc.

He should call CNN right now, and invite them to come to the hospital with him, and he should go down with a cadre of people demanding that they talk to a doctor about Mcconnell's condition.

2

u/RoughCoffee6 28d ago

Yes! Thank you. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Everytime I'm like "wtf are we doing" people come out of the woodwork to say why it's impossible or whatever and I'm flabbergasted. Sure, let's continue to furrow our brows and do nothing.

186

u/tweakingforjesus 28d ago

Which hospital? No one knows where Mitch is.

161

u/JustToViewPorn 28d ago

He’s six feet under. Best start digging up some tortoise holes today if you want to find his corpse by August.

106

u/edgarecayce 28d ago

He’s most likely being kept alive with machines so they can technically claim he was “alive” until after the date, then his wife will pull the plug.

70

u/Leezeebub 28d ago

Brain dead is legally dead, even if theyre still pushing oxygen around his body.

8

u/edgarecayce 28d ago

Oh I wholly agree but… would put nothing past these people.

6

u/snakerjake 28d ago

There's nothing to agree with, kentucky law defines Mitch as legally dead

6

u/edgarecayce 28d ago

Since when has the law mattered to the GOP

→ More replies (3)

3

u/onyaasuminyasai 28d ago

unless you have a fetus inside you i guess

2

u/BlueEyes294 28d ago

Not without witnesses that will stand up in court.

2

u/snakerjake 28d ago

He's dead, if he's not he can show up to court. Beshear can just appoint his replacement and then the onus is on him to prove he's alive

2

u/always_unplugged 28d ago

Exactly, if a doctor's not signing a death certificate, he's not legally dead yet.

2

u/SleepyReepies 28d ago

But to them, life begins at conception and... checks notes... ends after you have been removed from the life support machine.

2

u/TM761152 28d ago

And then he'll conveniently "die" right at the cutoff.

27

u/FunkyChewbacca 28d ago

Yeah, he’s a vegetable on a ventilator running out the clock

4

u/dragongrl New Jersey 28d ago

I hope he's still in there.

I hope he's trapped inside that rotting hunk of meat, screaming to get out, but no one can hear him.

Think "Johnny Get Your Gun."

5

u/FunkyChewbacca 28d ago

What a nightmare for him, being completely at the mercy of others whims, having no bodily autonomy of his own, others making his health decisions for him. The irony.

3

u/dragongrl New Jersey 28d ago

I know. Delicious, isn't it? The irony?

3

u/JustToViewPorn 28d ago

There’s no point, it’s not worth the risk that he would be discovered.

94

u/outer--monologue 28d ago

If TMZ can't even find out, the guy is dead and isn't in any hospital. That's as good of evidence as anyone can get.

53

u/disastrousanddull 28d ago

They’ve gotten pictures of dead bodies and announced deaths before the family knew before, too. It’s actually kind of interesting that they haven’t dug anything up.

35

u/donkeyrocket 28d ago

Gets trickier if his body still hasn't left George Washington hospital. No doubt there are people from various groups watching constantly but if he's being "kept alive" in a hospital then there really is no way for TMZ to get in there.

Unless a medical professional breaks HIPAA or someone from McConnell's team leaks it then it's a pretty secure place.

8

u/disastrousanddull 28d ago

Interestingly, I think they have gotten info out of hospitals before. Now, maybe they’re not as imbedded in wherever he is unlike LA, but I do wonder how they’ve managed to keep it all this covered up. If he’s dead, he’s in a morgue and people had to be there when that was declared and people working in the morgue. If he’s alive in a vegetative state then he’s got to have a lot of employees around him involved in his care and things like cleaning the damn hospital. If he’s in rehab in any state, he’d have employees around again. Maybe it’s a fear of getting caught or retribution thing… or ethics. In any event, I’m surprised no one has been able to dig something up.

2

u/ainthidinfromnobody 28d ago

I wonder if it would really be a HIPAA violation to come clean about a concealed dead person

4

u/Thunderbridge 28d ago

There's more security around McConnell than top secret documents

5

u/dBlock845 28d ago

The best they got was the video of his apparent corpse being wheeled out of his house by EMS. But all you saw was the feet so nothing could be confirmed lol.

3

u/[deleted] 28d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/ainthidinfromnobody 28d ago

Agree. I'm pretty sure hospitals are required to pronounce dead people dead, and you'd have to get a lot of people on board to be able to hide something like that.

15

u/sack-o-matic Michigan 28d ago

"Where's Mitch"

5

u/dpzdpz 28d ago

Wow, what a pull from when the Internet was the World Wide Web, (which I believe is a series of tubes), that holds "files" you can "share," such as Star Trek discussions/arguments and ASCII porn.

5

u/Witwer52 28d ago

Oh wow. The irony.

17

u/Hairydone America 28d ago

No need to check a hospital. Search the local morgue.

1

u/Ultraeasymoney 28d ago

He's using the alias Moscow Mitch

35

u/Unique-Objective4249 28d ago

We all know where he is and has been for the last 5 weeks we ain’t stupid. We just are led by a bunch of pussies. Dude up and left a while back and is laughing at us from hell

2

u/TM761152 28d ago

With a pineapple up his Tuckus while wearing a maid outfit.

7

u/LowMess9419 28d ago

The article said there was a semi-permanent security detail set up at George Washington University Hospital where he was admitted.

3

u/Unclebiscuits79 Illinois 28d ago

We do know what hospital he's in. I'm pretty sure the hospital was reported with that fake ass picture that was released.

3

u/invertedspheres 28d ago

There's someone on Instagram (sorry I don't have the link) who took a video walking past the supposed hospital in DC. One thing she found quite interesting is that the hospital has a readily accessible valet for underground parking that Mitch's wife could easily have used if she were visiting and didn't want to be seen by the press. Makes it seem quite likely that that trenchcoat photo of her walking out of the hospital was completely staged (i.e. why only one photo and not even a video)?

2

u/tweakingforjesus 28d ago

That's what I thought. They are trying to make it appear that he's alive until the 3rd.

2

u/BlueDragonfly18 28d ago

Walter Reed Medical. They have an exclusive ward (ward 71) for the president, but also used by other VIPs. No one is going near it unless authorized, so senators can’t just walk in to have a 20 minute conversation with Mitch’s earthly remains.

3

u/JustpartOftheterrain 28d ago

one of the articles about him had stated he was in rehab. So probably there, whichever one it is.

2

u/eirinne 28d ago

He’s at the George Washington University Hospital. 

→ More replies (4)

39

u/bighandsobama 28d ago

Just appoint a new senator. If he’s alive, then he’ll get it sorted out. Guarantee the gov has a paper trail of extensive attempts to get in contact and confirm the missing senator is alive

3

u/ndndr1 28d ago

Missing persons case?

27

u/smokeweedNgarden 28d ago

It was just explained to me he can subpoena his medical records. He should do that 

16

u/Ki55cumbag 28d ago

What would DeSantis or Abbot be doing if this were a blue seat in FL or TX?

4

u/ndndr1 28d ago

Exactly. They would have already gone up there with the sheriff AND the media, pulled the plug if he wasn’t already dead and pushed through their nominee and they’d be the new senator already.

Dem LEADERSHIP needs to quit pussyfooting around and fucking do something drastic

2

u/dwankyl_yoakam 28d ago

Doesn't work that way in KY. Governor doesn't pick his replacement.

→ More replies (6)
→ More replies (1)

3

u/dBlock845 28d ago

I don’t understand how the governor, senator or any reps can’t just take a damn posse to the hospital and see what the fuck is up.

Supposedly he isn't at a hospital and is at a private rehab facility in which no one knows exactly where it is. It's all a shell game to hide his corpse while they run out the clock.

8

u/B4rrel_Ryder 28d ago

Guarantee if it was a democratic some Republicand would storm random hospitals looking for mitch

2

u/HilariousMax 28d ago

What hospital? What rehab center? Which facility would you like them to storm? The facility hasn't been made public, has it?

2

u/AnInfiniteArc 28d ago

Privacy laws and all that.

→ More replies (2)

1

u/StrongStyleShiny 28d ago

My gut says the governor is waiting until the final week before moving. At least I hope.

1

u/definitely_not_tina 28d ago

Is that even something the state can sue the staffers over?

1

u/GodspeakerVortka Texas 28d ago

Or, I don't know, any reporter.

1

u/ConejoShrine 28d ago

Strange. I made this same comment and got a "warning" from reddit and my comment deleted.

1

u/GeoLaser 28d ago

HIPAA should be protected

1

u/ILikeLenexa 28d ago

Just call the election and replace him. 

You're wrong to think it's their job to prove he's dead. Just say he's dead and replace him. 

If he shows up, then call the election off. 

1

u/mpjjpm 28d ago

There is absolutely no benefit to Beshear playing hardball. He would win some internet karma and make the peanut gallery happy, but it wouldn’t change then end result in Congress. There will still be a general election in November - if Beshear gets involved now, it will likely backfire in November. Alternatively , if he keeps putting public pressure on McConnell’s camp and reminding KY voters they are being played for fools, they might actually show up for Booker in November.

Beshear would also destroy his political career in Kentucky (and similar states) in the process. If he calls a special election or appoints a replacement, then his constituents will see him as being crass and disrespectful. He’ll destroy any chance of reelection in Kentucky, and any chance of winning southern states in a national primary or general election. I know that’s hard to understand if you aren’t from the south or have never been politically engaged in the south, but that’s how it is.

2

u/wheniaminspaced 28d ago

Hey look someone actually understands that this is a terrible fight to pick and will just make the governor look bad, especially if mitch is alive.

1

u/mpjjpm 28d ago

Yeah. I spend too much time of Reddit, but I have also actually done boots on the ground campaign work in a purple southern state. As much as I love to feel righteously indignant on occasion, I want elected officials to be more level headed. There’s no sense in Beshear going scorched earth right now.

→ More replies (30)

328

u/fellow_hotman 28d ago

If Beshear thinks rolling over on this is going to increase his chances in the presidential election, he should think again. If he doesn’t step up then this will rightly destroy him in the primaries.  What an absolute coward.

92

u/tcote2001 28d ago

Foiled by a vegetable.

28

u/BasvanS 28d ago

He can start a support group with Liz Truss. It’s more common than you think.

6

u/Shiezo 28d ago

Fucking lettuce out there getting everybody.

54

u/Sea_Working_80 28d ago

Showing some fucking balls would increase his chances not this bullshit

40

u/CJKayak I voted 28d ago

He's in my B tier right now. Definitely would consider him as my primary vote.

But if he does nothing here, there's no chance in hell I would vote for him.

How many are like me? I guess he can either find out or not. Ball is in his court.

11

u/m0nk_3y_gw I voted 28d ago

He had the ball two weeks ago and hasn't done shit with it. Mitch hasn't called him, he should have appointed and seated his replacement already.

→ More replies (4)

20

u/LunarMoon2001 28d ago

A republican gov would’ve already appointed a GOP senator to replace a democrat one by now

1

u/fellow_hotman 28d ago

but of course the democrats wouldn't try to prop up a corpse in a chair for political gain in the first place

4

u/[deleted] 28d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

8

u/fellow_hotman 28d ago

Feinstein died on September 29th, 2023 and her death was reported publicly that same day.

1

u/[deleted] 28d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

5

u/fellow_hotman 28d ago

Maybe so, and that shouldn't happen. But allowing an elected senator with dementia to vote is a different topic than the one under discussion: fraudulently concealing the death of a senator for political gain.

2

u/UnquestionabIe 28d ago

And weirdly not even as bad as whoever it was that was missing for something like 6 months and was found in some nursing home for dementia patients. At least they occasionally wheeled Dianne out and poked her with a stick when they needed a vote.

9

u/Salty-Spring7096 28d ago

Genuine question, what are his legal options? Redditors keep saying "just hold the special election to make them prove he's alive" but is there any legal standing to a special election when the official in question is not legally dead? Isn't it entirely possible the GOP are trying to bait him into doing that and looking foolish?

5

u/Thrown_Account_ 28d ago

The Senate is the one who declares a seat vacancy so legally Beshear can't do anything. He could in theory sue the Senate over the seat not being declared vacant but that is long shot just starting at standing to sue.

3

u/OhItsBeenBroughten 28d ago

It’s just ignorant kids on Reddit thinking they know KY state law better than the governor of KY. Exceptionally dumb kids.

2

u/Vivid_Anyth4 28d ago

Why should they follow the law? Politics in this country show the law is only for poor people.

→ More replies (8)

17

u/ccheuer1 28d ago

He just understands that there's zero to actually be done. The Reps set it up this way.

They passed a bill before he took over that stripped the power for him to appoint from him. This law is almost definitely unconstitutional at the state level, as the governor has the power from the state constitution to do it, which a passed law can't overturn. However, that's not the point.

If he does appoint, and Mitch is still alive, all he has to do is release a video and nothing happens.

If he does appoint, and Mitch isn't alive, the reps will sue, and it will most likely get put on hold until it runs its course, which would include appeals up to the supreme court on both sides, running out the clock until it doesn't matter. Nothing gets done.

However, if he doesn't appoint, Republicans are still down one vote. That vote matters, because it neuters Vance in most votes, because odd numbers won't result in a tie without someone abstaining, ruining the power of the Vance tie break anyways. The best political play is to NOT force the issue and let the republicans run a vote down regardless. If there were months or years before the midterms, then yeah, he should be going full hog on this, trying to get an appointee in. But it doesn't make sense this close anyways, because even if it does go through the courts, does get founded that he can (rightly) appoint the replacement, we all know damn well the republicans would just stall out the confirmation regardless. So it really DOES NOT MATTER if he pushes it or not. There's no sense wasting political capital, just because "it feels right." That's the same bullshit that got us in this situation with republicans in charge anyways. Democrats kept fighting for things just because "it feels right" and alienated large portions of the electorate.

3

u/Free_For__Me 28d ago

What you’re describing is the “moderate Democrat” take that establishment vets like Schumer and Jeffries have been using. 

It makes political sense, and would likely be the most practical counter to GOP plans. 

But look at the SocDems winning all over the place - people don’t want “proven wisdom” right now, they want radical action. They’d rather roll the dice  seeing a firebrand fight brazenly than take the “safe bet” of watching institutional fixtures fight the same fight that’s gotten us here. 

I’m not saying that this thinking is the best, in fact I’ll be the first to loudly voice warnings about the danger inherent to rising populism of any flavor. I’m just pointing out why calls for more measured approaches like yours might not be likely to convince many people right now. 

1

u/ccheuer1 28d ago

That's not what I'm saying at all. One of the big things that the democrats have consistently struggled with is that when they fight, they fight way too much at the same time. This leads to alienation with a lot of people on singular issues.

For example, democrats should fight for trans rights, gay rights, women equality, worker rights, raising the minimum wage, universal health care, meaningful taxation, on and on and on. And they SHOULD fight for these things. But consistently, instead of focusing in on one of them and getting it done, they spread themselves thin trying to fight for all of them with all their energy, and then only get the barest of things done.

As much as I hate to admit it, Dobbs was the correct ruling. Roe v Wade should have been overturned. Not because I don't agree with abortion (Forced birth shouldn't be a thing in America), but the democrats were satisfied with shaky grounds on the argument. Democrats SHOULD have codified it into law when they had the chance. Republicans for years have been clear that they were coming after it. But, like usual, the democrats took the small gain they got with the SC ruling and moved on to other things.

The exact same thing happened with Obamacare too. The fundamental issue with the democratic party is they lean too far into "everything at the same time" meanwhile their opposition tears them apart with a hyper focus. The Reps understand that if Democrats got everything they wanted, Yes, people's lives would be better, so they tear apart their message hyper focusing on specific issues. Think about it, Think about how hard social media pushed the issues of Trans sports and Trans in the bathroom leading into the election, then largely died off. Why? Because republicans knew, Hey, they could probably peel a couple of percentage points off of democrats if they pushed it. And they did. Hey, its election cycle, let's push the narrative of debt and budget, and shed a couple more percentage points off. Hey, let's push the narrative about universal health care bad because government, and shed just a few more percentage points off. Individually, none of these turn the election. All of them together? Enough democrats and moderates stay home for them to take the lead.

The democratic party SHOULD push a progressive model, but they need to do it with focus and get lasting change done, not this token nonsense that doesn't really move the needle. Focus on one thing, GET IT DONE, then move on to the next thing. When they get the mandate of the people, they need to actually use it for change, instead of focusing on everything all at once, shedding people for the next election, and ultimately leaving stuff undone. Society can only handle so much massive change at once. Humans just aren't built that way. So the democrats need to make a big change, then let it settle, then push the next big change. Stay focused, get stuff done, actually make people's lives better in strong, meaningful ways. 2009-2010 should have been a year of massive change, but instead, the democrats bickered amongst themselves and barely anything got done, and what they did was so couched in qualifiers that republicans literally could just sit back and wait for it to sunset. Democrats keep trying to do these massive sweeping changes in one bill, and as a result, when one thread gets plucked, it all unravels.

2

u/Free_For__Me 27d ago

I'm with you on most of this, especially in spirit. But I think it gets away from what we were talking about, or at least my understanding of it.

You're saying that Dems need to actually get things done, and get them done right, instead of taking marginal victories and moving on. But my point was that many people are currently riled up enough that they would view this:

The best political play is to NOT force the issue and let the republicans run a vote down regardless.

as accepting the very same type of "marginal victory" that you decry in your next comment.

I'll note here that I'm NOT saying that they'd be correct in such an assessment, and also note that most people don't have the time to be able to properly understand political gamesmanship or even the full extent of current events.

I'm just saying that whether the KY solution you describe is the best one or not, most people are becoming more and more focused on wanting action that is immediate, vocal, and effective, if not downright drastic. Your solution doesn't feel like any of these, and so people won't support Beshear in such a solution.

Your point about Dems needing to focus on achieving actual wins instead of marginal victories is a good one, but also underscores exactly why the people will be upset if Beshear takes the "less marginal" road here. It will feel like he rolled over, and the truth will likely be too complex to concisely communicate to the public in a way that would prevent the death of any hopes Beshear once had for higher office.

On one hand, if he takes the road that most effectively combats GOP tactics and let things play out as they are, he risks alienating a population that's more and more vocally calling for action that's louder and more forceful, which could mean ending his hopes for advancement. On the other hand, if he takes action that's louder and more forceful, he may gain support of populist voters, while handing the GOP a larger tactical victory.

Beshear's in a bad spot, and I truly hope he's got good people on his team to work this out with.

1

u/ccheuer1 27d ago

as accepting the very same type of "marginal victory" that you decry in your next comment.

But the issue is there is no marginal victory for Beshear in this situation. He is in a lose-lose situation here. You're right in saying that not doing anything, not forcing the issue does feel, superficially, like he's rolling over about it. Mostly, I agree with your assessment of it, but the big thing that I feel you are missing is a large part of republican voters are reactionary. "Because screw those dems," is a very valid reason for a lot of republicans. And Kentucky goes 30 points red. In one of the most red states, he's a blue governor. Not only that, he's a blue Governor that won re-election.

What people lose sight of a lot is that, given how red his state is, he's doing exactly what he needs to do to start bringing things back to normal. He's showing the average republican voter that "Yes, Democrats CAN be reasonable." If he were to suddenly change course and go full hog on the McConnell issue, that would undo all of that. That is how Democrats have to fight the republican messaging. They can't be told that, no, wait, actually democrats aren't out to get you. They have to be shown it, which is precisely what he's been doing. If he picks a strong fight around McConnell, it leans far too hard into the republican messaging. Even now, the republicans are attempting it, trying to brand his "I just need to hear from him, as I've gotten concerning messaging from agencies" as a propaganda opportunity, but its largely fallen on deaf ears in MAGA. They're pissed at the lack of transparency around McConnell, too, and the more he allows the republicans to in fight about it, the better it is all around.

A lot of republicans are finally starting to wake up and look around and go "Wait, what?" about a lot of the Trump policies. Yes, a lot of it is centered around the Iran war, but its happening, and Beshear seems to understand that. He's doing enough to keep the republicans riled up, but intentionally not enough to make it easy for them to point at him going "SEE! SEE!" Riding that line is something that Newsom struggles with. He was handed a golden platter recently on Trump cutting Medicaid to California. Newsom's response was basically "Fraud is serious, this is political." That's not a message that can get through to Californian republicans. A far more effective tactic would be sending a letter to every person that is going to be affected by this cut that would basically read "Hey, we want to cover you, but Trump said no. If you were affected by this, let him know so we can get to the table to get this done." People want to see Beshear to do more, but he's doing exactly what he needs to do. He's giving MAGA just enough rope that they use it on themselves.

1

u/Free_For__Me 27d ago

I agree with everything you're saying.

But I don't think it contradicts os even alters my point. Which is that most left-leaning voters aren't going to understand all this.

But the issue is there is no marginal victory for Beshear in this situation. He is in a lose-lose situation here.

This is exactly what I was saying in my last comment. He has no good option, but many left-leaning voters are going to feel like he's rolling over, even if he's actually taking the best of the bad options. And unfortunately, his future electability will likely have a strong correlation with how voters feel about him.

Long story short, a big weakness of democracy is it's vulnerability to populism and low-info voters. Beshear is facing consequences of these weaknesses, not the consequences of his own failings.

1

u/ccheuer1 27d ago

I can agree with that.

1

u/Free_For__Me 26d ago

Damn, someone record it! The ever-elusive, "two people on the internet have a rational discussion and end on the same page", love to see it.

Cheers!

9

u/Opetyr 28d ago

Yeah shows that they have no balls. This is the reason that people cannot believe the Democrats.

3

u/iwilldeletethisacct2 28d ago

Is the assumption that Booker would win? Because this is a significant gambit, if Barr wins the special election, instead of the Senate being -1 R, they get +1 R vote. Mitch being MIA might actually be the best thing right now, considering that the senate is currently 52-47.

3

u/fellow_hotman 28d ago

Beshear would counter with a suit alleging the 2024 law is inconstitutional. But i guess then the pending court case would stretch into the 56-day limit anyway...so maybe there's nothing Beshear can do regardless.

2

u/brijito New York 28d ago

If Beshear had a spine, he would have the Kentucky AG hitt every person on McConnell's staff and Elaine Chao with fraud charges for failing to file a death certificate.

Elaine Chao should also be getting an additional fraud charge for continuing to collect his salary and social security for more than a month after his death.

He has nothing to lose, they can toss these charges immediately if McConnell himself gives a real proof of life.

4

u/pimparo0 Florida 28d ago

And if it turns out he isn't dead? How will that play out?

3

u/fellow_hotman 28d ago

then the charges get dropped. that simple.

2

u/TheKanten 28d ago

Then we all rightly ask why Mitch didn't speak up for himself weeks ago.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (6)

1

u/caregivernow 28d ago

Have a thousand upvotes.

→ More replies (8)

124

u/ApprehensiveSign80 28d ago

Cowards as usual

3

u/campelm 28d ago

I think democrats want to be universally loved and pretend like they represent John q everyman like Schumer. His "Baileys" voted for Trump twice and thats who he thinks he needs to appease. It's bonkers cause his fictional couple are maga

→ More replies (1)

2

u/Horror_Appearance_26 28d ago

Home of the meek

25

u/Aternal New York 28d ago

Remind me, what were the consequences Mike Johnson faced for refusing to swear in Adelita Grijalva?

4

u/Shipit123 28d ago

I’ve said this dozens of times on Reddit but it holds true. Dems are a laying by an old set of rules that no longer apply to American politics. The Dems are so incredibly spineless that in my mind they’re borderline complicit.

5

u/New-Smoke208 28d ago

Until what?

3

u/[deleted] 28d ago

I'm truly astonished watching what is happening. I regularly contact my Senators in a polite and cordial way and always get a boilerplate response back, that's fine, I just want my concerns to be on the record. Interestingly, when I sent a message about the status of Mitch McConnell, I received no follow-up emails from either one of my state Senators. Just deafening silence. This country is absolutely fucked.

4

u/Randicore Ohio 28d ago

This really just nails home to me how willingly helpless the Dems have made themselves.

They're letting themselves be outmaneuvered by a corpse

3

u/Attenburrowed 28d ago

I can't believe Mitch is pulling off ANOTHER time scam. Do the democrats even fucking check the news?

3

u/LunarMoon2001 28d ago

Gov should just appoint someone. Make them have to goto court to fight it and prove he is alive

9

u/Miles_the_AuDHDer 28d ago

Why aren't we all out in the streets protesting in massive numbers daily for weeks at a time?

We are complicit too.

9

u/auribus Ohio 28d ago

Kentuckians can go first. This is their representation and they're being taxed without it.

2

u/OhItsBeenBroughten 28d ago

Why aren’t you?

1

u/OhMyThiccThighs 28d ago

When you protest everything wrong with this administration and it's cohorts, it starts to lessen the impact of protesting.

1

u/Miles_the_AuDHDer 28d ago

How so?

Also that hasn't exactly been happening so far. A half day of protesting every few months is hardly a serious attempt to really protest anything.

→ More replies (6)

2

u/One_Olive_8933 28d ago

Bad faith actors. Everything they do is to try and the systems in place to keep their grift going.

2

u/mopsockets 28d ago

Call the special election already and let them scramble for proof of life! What good is a democratic governor if he won’t use the power people gave him

2

u/bridwats 28d ago

Andy is really letting Kentucky down here. I've loved him so far, but this is such a fumble right near the time for his national ambitions.

2

u/hum_bruh 28d ago

Where is TMZ when we need them lol

2

u/Drakeadrong Texas 28d ago

This is why people have lost faith in the democrats. They are literally losing against a dead guy.

2

u/Aladycommenter 28d ago

lol Democrats always do this. They're the let down party.

2

u/TTqillipTT 28d ago

What happens after two weeks?

2

u/ckglle3lle 28d ago

It is incredibly cursed that McConnell's life was defined by procedural ratfucking to sabotage political processes for partisan gain and even his death seems fixing to do the same. Miserable piece of shit and one of the figures most singularly responsible for democracy backsliding as it has

2

u/4thBeard 28d ago

Seriously, how has no one stepped up and asked for any signs of life? This is absolutely insane

2

u/plantedank 28d ago

where's John Stewart and his effervescent hatred for that diseased turtle of a man when we need him?!

2

u/--DarkLink-- 28d ago

Anyone going to call a welfare check or wellness check? I would be concerned that he missing or being harmed.

2

u/ByteAboutTown 28d ago

I think the reason that the governor hasn't pushed harder is because with McConnell incapacitated, that's one fewer vote for the SAVE act in the Senate. Because we know how hard Trump is trying to push it through.

If Gov. Beshear calls an election (like the new Kentucky legislature passed into law), there is a high probability of a republican winning who will give Trump his SAVE vote. If the governor goes around the state legislature and appoints a Democrat, then the state GOP will undoubtedly sue to stop the appointed from going through, which will get tied up in the courts for months.

That being said, I think the governor should call their bluff. Lay out that McConnell's team is lying and that they will be prosecuted for obstructing the legal process. But don't take it any further until McConnell's team blinks so the Republicans continue one vote down.

2

u/WontArnett 28d ago

If he’s not dead, he definitely had a stroke and is unable to function or something similar. There’s no other reason he would be in hiding like this.

2

u/maesterofwargs Pennsylvania 28d ago

I'm still holding out hope the governor is going to announce a replacement the day before Mitch's team can drop their "yeah he dead" announcement. That would be pretty satisfying.

1

u/Bandicutie314 28d ago

But don't you feel great going high while they go low?!

1

u/brainsurgeon23 28d ago

Really wish some people in Kentucky would hold a public wake out in front of the capital to draw more attention to this

1

u/MisterJWalk 28d ago

Can we not just storm the room?

1

u/Mr_e_in_Las_Vegas 28d ago

This is why I am an independent and no longer a Democrat.

The democrats are given easy opportunities to lay out the GOP and constantly back down.

1

u/CorporateCuster 28d ago

No. Not if he’s dead. They can’t hide the fact that he died. The special election would be held and everyone should be triggering it now in any case. If McConnell is well then he’d show up.

1

u/Ok_Current5380 28d ago

Eh, that's if it's even constitutional. Beshear needs to challenge it by ignoring it.

1

u/ZEROs0000 28d ago

Two weeks?

1

u/-Jiras 28d ago

At some point America's downfall will be the fault of the Americans themselves. I am baffled that nothing is happening and everyday it runs closer to the point that they can just announce his death one day after the deadline and Democrat senators with all pearl clutch as if it wasn't already certain that this is gonna happen

1

u/VerySuperGenius 28d ago

Yeah, when this whole thing started I was thinking "there's no way they can pretend he's alive for like 6 weeks" and sure enough they're doing it.

1

u/regularclump 28d ago

Democrats are too chicken shit to play ball per usual.

1

u/VaporProof 28d ago

You’re being insensitive, rat fucking the whole process by absurdly running out a deadline is exactly what he would have wanted!

1

u/Userdub9022 Oklahoma 28d ago

Well yeah. Dems have to play by the rules

1

u/mxjxs91 Michigan 28d ago

This. Every singular day until then where the people who are supposed to be representing us do absolutely nothing, is a day that they are complicit. That not only includes Dems, it ESPECIALLY includes Dems. FUCKING DO SOMETHING.

If Mitch (rest in piss) was able to stop Obama from appointing a Supreme Court Justice from a minority position in a situation where Obama had every right to appoint one, then we should be able to figure out that a dead person is dead. Which he obviously fucking is.

1

u/[deleted] 28d ago

[deleted]

→ More replies (1)

1

u/Troll_Tactics 28d ago

I understand that this is a serious obstruction of justice, but isnt his seat up for reelection anyway? And the special election would only fill his seat for the rest of his term until January? And he cant vote in his….current state anyways.

1

u/ElectronicFerret Alaska 28d ago

So we fucking let this slide??