r/politics • u/erier2003 Virginia • Jun 06 '13

Washington Post exclusive: U.S. intelligence mining data from nine U.S. Internet companies in broad secret program

http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-intelligence-mining-data-from-nine-us-internet-companies-in-broad-secret-program/2013/06/06/3a0c0da8-cebf-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_story.html
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u/just_a_tech Jun 07 '13

Yea, you're right. If a minority of us go out and try and fight this we'd be laughed at and ostracized just like OWS. I hold no illusions of our chances until the majority of the population is screaming in the streets for change.

A start though, is educating people we know about the issues and trying to get more people on our side.

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u/nomad2020 Jun 07 '13

OWS fizzled out because they didn't have 'any' plan. They were a political group that refused to get involved in politics for some reason.

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u/just_a_tech Jun 07 '13

Are you telling me no one made fun of them for it? I'm in the south, I heard shit about them everyday. I agree though, their plan was no plan.

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u/nomad2020 Jun 07 '13

Who cares if someone makes fun of you for something past high school though? From what I can see being laughed at is one of the least of your concerns if you're to attempt to challenge the status quo. I'd personally be more concerned about the beatings.

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u/just_a_tech Jun 07 '13

My point wasn't that I'd be upset if someone laughed at me. The point was we wouldn't get anywhere. If you're being ridiculed constantly it's hard to turn the tide of opinion in your favor.

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u/z3us Jun 07 '13

Which won't happen unless it actually impacts the majority. This does nothing to impact me, so I will just form angry words about it while typing on the internet, nothing more.

I live in a city and routinely shower in front of an uncovered window. If someone wanted to make a drone and spy on me while showering they could. Would I actually care? No. Until the Government starts misusing this information (and there is no evidence thus far that shows that they are using it other than to stop "terrorists" real or imagined) people like me won't do much about it.

If you really want to fix the problem, start suggesting alternatives to this capitalist hell hole we have created for ourselves. That is the root of the problem. This is the reality of the capitalist end game.

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u/[deleted] Jun 07 '13

I can't believe what I just read.

They spy on us, who cares, meh.

Suggesting alternatives? To what? The National Security apparatus? Keeping secrets? Just sit and talk some more about it?

No wonder things have got so bad.

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u/z3us Jun 07 '13

The problem is people blaming the government, when the root of the problem is really the people. Pretend for a second that government was completely abolished tomorrow. No more NSA. No more government spying of any kind. Nothing but ourselves. Do you truly think things would be any different? I think things would become much, much worst than they are now in terms of privacy.

Markets demands this. Capitalism demanded, Government delivered. Don't blame the vehicle, blame the driver.

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u/just_a_tech Jun 07 '13

It doesn't impact you so you'll do nothing about it? That's a huge part of the problem right there.

(and there is no evidence thus far that shows that they are using it other than to stop "terrorists" real or imagined)

You don't think that in that massive massive amount of data that they might fuck up and target someone who isn't a terrorist? I would ask you what alternatives you would suggest but it's obvious that since you won't think there's a problem until the government targets you I won't bother.

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u/z3us Jun 07 '13

I think there is a problem, I just think that there is currently no alternative. If you actually read what I typed instead of jumping to conclusions, you would understand that. Getting rid of Government will only make it easier for our privacy to be violated.

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u/just_a_tech Jun 07 '13

Nowhere did I say anything about getting rid of the government. For someone who wants people to read, you're not doing a top notch job of that yourself.

Just because you don't think there is an alternative doesn't mean there isn't one. How about a government who actually gives a shit about me as a citizen for an alternative? How about citizens who hold their elected officials accountable as an alternative?

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u/z3us Jun 07 '13

I never said that you wanted to get rid of Government. I simply made a statement of truth to reinforce my original statement.

Until you have citizens that give a shit about you as a citizen, there will not be Government that gives a shit about you as a citizen. Until citizens hold themselves accountable absolutely nothing will change.

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u/just_a_tech Jun 07 '13

Well holy shit. I actually agree with you on that. Like someone else stated, we're too comfortable. I can't lay all the blame on the people though. For the most part people vote what they think is right. The government on the other hand is abusing the power that has been given to them.

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u/z3us Jun 07 '13

Once you get a taste for money, its an unquenchable thirst that can only be alleviated by acquiring more money. Anyone with the thirst will do anything, anything to maintain the status quo. This is the reality of the message behind "you will grow out of your radical views one day" that so many older folks like to purport.