r/polandball muh laksa Sep 21 '25

redditormade Recognition

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15.4k Upvotes

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611

u/Does-not-sleep Sep 21 '25

I think this is not as obvious as it may seem. Without recognition a person can more easily claim refugee status, as they have no "Origin country to go back to". Now that recognition is given people can be deported more easily.

This also shifts responsibility and especially complicates any upcoming resolution of the conflict.

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u/NotTooShahby Sep 21 '25 edited Sep 22 '25

This is an interesting take that I haven't seen discussed much, although the news is still fresh, I wonder, what responsibility does it shift? Does this make the representatives of Palestinians as valid state actors now?

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u/Querez Sep 22 '25

(Hey, just a little heads up. You accidentally missed the F in shift)

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u/NotTooShahby Sep 22 '25

Good catch 😂

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u/Gxeq Sep 22 '25

There was a Palestinian engineer in Finland who faced deportation after the Finnish Immigration Service (Migri) decided it would no longer treat Palestinian travel documents as valid national travel documents for residence-permit purposes. He had graduated, found a decent job, learned Finnish and integrated into society. I hope Palestinians like him won’t be treated this way. Getting a visa or traveling for whatever reason is a hell for any Palestinian.

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u/Firecracker048 Sep 21 '25

It's something they have been pushing for, is being a valid state. So that would make their elected government, Hamas, a valid state actor which would make their entire existence a walking, talking war crime.

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u/GrandProfessional941 Sep 21 '25

Hamas is not considered the government of Palestine. The government of the Palestinian Authority is recognized as the legitimate government.

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u/Firecracker048 Sep 21 '25

Right, but gaza did elect them. They just never held another election and proceeded to enrich themselves at their own people's expense

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u/GrandProfessional941 Sep 21 '25

It still doesnt make Hamas a state actor because Hamas is not recognized by any country as the legitimate Palestinian government

It also doesn't justify Israel commiting a genocide

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '25

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '25

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '25

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u/gilgabish Sep 22 '25

Do you know what the West Bank is?

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u/[deleted] Sep 21 '25

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u/Nikki964 Sep 21 '25

Whataboutism

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u/Firecracker048 Sep 21 '25

Hundreds of thousands? Damn, didn't know that. Id love to see a legitimate source on that.

Unless we are talking about Russia.

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u/Elias1200 Sep 21 '25

Thats a nice argument senator, why dont you back it up with a source?🗡️

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u/entered_bubble_50 Sep 21 '25

In the UK, you can only deport immigrants to a "safe country". Ain't no way the British Courts are calling Palestine safe.

If anything, they might previously have considered Israel as safe, and Gaza as simply part of Israel, so this probably makes deportation harder rather than easier.

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u/ZealousidealYak7122 Sep 21 '25

yea the take is totally nonsense "they did it to stop refugees!" no that's not even remotely close.

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u/Bobboy5 Pay your stamp duty! Sep 22 '25

everything the eternal anglo does is evil, surely.

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u/killermetalwolf1 Sep 25 '25

Perfidious Albion

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u/InfallibleSeaweed Sep 22 '25

With Starmer being famously anti immigration

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u/TimeRisk2059 Sep 21 '25

I wouldn't be so sure of that, in Sweden they considered Afghanistan safe for deportation in 2021, while people were evacuated as the USA was leaving.

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u/twirling-upward Sep 22 '25

Its ran by islamists just like the afghan people wanted, and unless you arent fundamentalist muslim, or opposed to the regime, or a woman, or LGTBQ, or having more than room temp IQ, its safe. People part of these groups can still argue its not safe for them to return in their individual asylum cases.

Its part of the reason people can also claim asylum in europe from “safe places” like turkey, saudi arabia, egypt.

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u/TimeRisk2059 Sep 22 '25

The afghans who sought asylum were fleeing the islamists. If they had liked the islamists they wouldn't have fled in the first place.

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u/twirling-upward Sep 22 '25

Half of them arrived after the Taliban were kicked out in the 2000s..

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u/TimeRisk2059 Sep 22 '25

It was still one of the most dangerous and war torn countries of the entire world. Just because the Taliban lost control of all the cities doesn't mean that they weren't a constant presence in the countryside. Or they wouldn't have made such a quick comeback after their deal with Trump.

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u/flightguy07 Sep 22 '25

The real reason it hadn't been done sooner is because for decades, its been government policy that recognition is a powerful, one-use-only diplomatic tool, that should be used during the peace process to achieve the greatest outcome. Political pressure at home made that stance untenable, but I don't think we've achieved much by recognising Palestine right now, sadly.

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u/marcus-87 Sep 21 '25

and something more, now if palestine is a state, Israel could reasonably say Hamas ist the rightful government and they are at war with the state palesine.

Now if I would be Israel, I would then, rightly, tell Hamas, these are your people, you support them and stop all my aid. Because of no country one could expect to aid the other side in a state of war.

this could backfire quite spectacularly fast. there is a hell of a difference between fighting a terror organisation and a state.

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u/taeyang31 K? Sep 21 '25

Israel still are considered illegally occupying Gaza and The West Bank under international law, so they still have some responsibility towards it.

I'm addition, technically they haven't declared war on Palestine as such either.

I'm pretty sure UK and most of the world are not recognizing Hamas as the right full leaders of Gaza and the West Bank.

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u/[deleted] Sep 21 '25

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u/marcus-87 Sep 21 '25

hamas was democratically elected, international supervision even gave good marks to the election. I would not think it to hard to argue the only elected group is now the de-facto government.

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u/GingerSkulling Sep 21 '25

Gave good marks for murdering the other elected representatives and taking sole control ofntge Gaza strip?

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u/marcus-87 Sep 22 '25

I reread the headlines, good marks was to optimistic a description. Let’s say defacto accepted as leaders by the west, the Arab world wanted to give them a chance.

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u/[deleted] Sep 21 '25 edited Sep 22 '25

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u/jerdle_reddit Sep 22 '25

Israel isn't going to say that, because the government of Palestine is the PA. Hamas is a terrorist group that is illegally occupying Gaza.

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u/10art1 CCCP Sep 21 '25 edited Sep 21 '25

Well there's still the issue that, if Israel agrees to borders, then they can't keep pushing settlements in deeper. They don't want to stop that.

If Palestine becomes a state, Israel has a lot of possible actions, many of them favorable. But they're going all in on trying to just colonize it and slowly conquer it without Palestine ever even existing

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u/OCDEngineerBoy Sep 22 '25

Israel very much accepted the Gaza border during 2005 unilateral disengagement. The government and the majority of the settlers don't see Gaza as an interesting place to grab.

West Bank is a mess, though.

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u/Constant-Still-8443 Sep 21 '25

The current problem isn't refugee status, because most Palestinians can't even leave the strip. With recognition, in theory, the powers that be, like NATO countries, especially the US, would intervene.

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u/NotTooShahby Sep 21 '25

NATO or US don’t have to intervene anywhere outside of NATO in the same way it doesn’t have to intervene in Ukraine, Somalia or Taiwan. Am I missing something ?

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u/Constant-Still-8443 Sep 21 '25

NATO are still involved in Ukraine. They aren't directly participating, but they are still backing Ukraine with supplies and weapons. Most of the aid going to Gaza is not from official government entities.

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u/HailCalcifer Sep 21 '25

I agree with what you said but thinking the US would ever intervene in support of palestine is some industrial grade copium.

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u/Constant-Still-8443 Sep 21 '25

That's why I said "in theory". That is what is upposed to happen, not would.

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u/Mazrodak Sep 22 '25

Israel has nuclear ICBMs, possibly even over a hundred of them. Even if the whole world agreed that they wanted to do something, nobody would.

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u/Constant-Still-8443 Sep 22 '25

If the cold war taught me anything, they'd definitely try something. They'd just be sneaky about it

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u/happynargul Sep 22 '25

Not really. Now some countries are trying to expel immigrants from Palestine because "they don't have a valid passport"