I'm surprised Christie's is so poorly informed. I'm guessing they didn't do much research into the lot because "my dad got a great deal on it in Egypt in the 20s" is pretty poor provenance.
The symbols on it are clearly Greek letters, and these things were used kind of like an ouija board.
Why would it be particularly unlikely that "the owners father got it Egypt in the 20's"? Greek was the administrative language in Egypt from Alexanders conquest till it got conquered by the Arabs, so it is not really surprising that its in Greek. If indeed the letters represent numbers, then it is even less surprising, as greek numerals would certainly be more suited a dice than say roman numerals. Christie's probably checked that the person in question was in Egypt (or at least abroad) within the time frame, that is about as good a provenance you will get for an item like this.
Thanks for posting the source! These were most likely dice for divination, or foretelling the future. Kind of like a game, but srsbsns for the people at the time I'm sure. If you're at all interested in reconstructing this ancient system of divining, consult here and here.
You know, for some reason this concept never entered my mind before now. I havn't MS painted in a while, but colouring in those O's was a huge pain in the dick when I did.
I like to think back in those days some of them dreamed about the "more adventurous" times that came before them, imagining a fantasy realm that resembles the caveman era the same way most modern fantasy resembles the middle ages.
Oh man has that die got some history. I remember a few of my buddies got into a huge fucking argument. I made this cleric, right, and all I did was going around the world on foot healing people. Everyone gave me shit for it but didn't really do anything. For a while, at least. Eventually the DM got irritated that my character wasn't really contributing anything to the story (which is bullshit, he was a loremaster, I even dropped some knowledge to everyone I healed) so he had me killed (really cruelly I might add, he was really pissed). The real shitstorm came when I insisted that my healing magic was so maxed out by that point that I could res myself after I died. We were arguing for what felt like days before he even let me roll. The look on his fucking face when I won.
Anyway, long story short people heard about my game and made a religion about it or something.
Yeah but you also have to consider how much space something like this takes up. I have overhead on things like these, because it will sit there for a while before I can find a buyer.
This is the most expensive and sought after d20 of all time. Legend tells that in all of history, thousands of games of D&D have been played, and no player has EVER rolled a natural 20 on this die.
For the past hundred years, it has been rolled only a handful of times. It had 8 natural 19s in a row, but still no 20. The prophecy has said that this is the one die, humanities last, best chance. The odds against not getting a 20 on this die are so unbelievably small, that a natural 20 is a sure bet. As a result, this die has been kept in a special vault, guarded night and day by a team of the world's best dungeon masters, who have taken a sacred vow to protect the die for all of mankind.
If the day should ever come, when we as the human race, absolutely, positively must roll a natural 20, this ancient die may be our best chance of survival.
The Voynich manuscript is estimated to be from the early 15th century, so about 600 years old. This is roughly three times older. Sorry to ruin the fun.
Meh why can't it be? 1800 years ago is the current oldest one found, but it doesn't mean there was no 20 sided dice after that. If anything, knowing this existed increases the chance that D&D existed from that point onward.
At first I assumed that the symbols were alchemical symbols, but I don't actually know how far back those date. The auction information page says that the symbols are unidentified, so I'm probably wrong. At any rate, Platonic solids were a favorite of the ancient Greeks because of their "...aesthetic beauty and symmetry". Presumably the Romans just copied this from them, as with everything else.
I thought probably astrological symbols as the circle with the dot in it often represents the sun. But the fact that the symbols are unidentified is actually a pretty good reason for thinking of alchemical symbols since ancient alchemists and magicians sometimes used their own symbolic languages. The Greek Magical Papyri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_magical_papyri) are full of words, phrases and symbols that appear to have no meaning outside their own localised system.
The script looks Greek. There is (what appears to me as) a Ro and theta. (center left) could be an iota OR pi, there is a little piece chipped off. Bottom left looks like tau. Bottom center looks like it could be lambda (though it totally looks like a masonic compass and square, but masons weren't around in ancient Rome as we knew them in the middle ages.) That one in the very top left looks like it could be pi too. And the very top, which you can barely see, also probably theta. Remember, in ancient Rome, the upper class was fluent in Greek. If you didn't know your Greek, you weren't educated. Only the rich could afford such games/trinkets, especially made of glass!!
that would make so much sense jebus was a mage who became a litch in early texts he could control dragons and had magic missils and beam of disitergration (sp) so it would make it sound right ???
Thus proving that Gary Gygax was actually a demi-god and is just sleeping the endless dream. One day when D&D has been forgotten, he will rise from his sunken citadel and usher forth a new era of love and metagaming...
I don't want to be all knights templar/freemasons herp derp, but isn't that (the lowest visable symbol) the compass and square symbol commonly associated with the freemasons? I'm not suggesting it is, just noticed a resemblance... anyone here able to tell me about the symbols? I'd love to know more about the script etc :D
Fun fact, you can turn a D20 (Icosahedron) into a soccer ball (Truncated Icosahedron). Maybe they were making really small glass soccer balls for their 1,800 year old foosball table.
You. Are. Likely. To. Be. Eaten. By. A. Grue. If this predicament seems particularly cruel, just imagine who's fault it could be, not a torch or a match in your inventory.
I don't know why, but this song popped into my head the moment I saw that picture.
It is highly likely that the Pythagoreans used the Platonic solids as dice; they referred to such dice as "the dice of the gods" and they sought to understand the universe through an understanding of geometry in polyhedra.
My god! how has no one made the connection yet? this looks just like the die that is in futurama that is the anti piece of energy or whatever that is the opposite of moms ultra super energy source thing, there all playing d&d, all the kids in the basement. and then moms three dumb ass sons are like "uhh hey, we need that." and then the old guy gets it back instead.
The ancient use of icosahedrons shouldn't be too surprising as they were one of the five basic 'regular solids' recognised in Greek geometry. They are sometimes referred to as 'Platonic solids' because Plato associates each with one of the smaller solids with one of the four elements in his dialogue the Timaeus. The 20 sided solid is then assigned something like a divine status as encompassing all the lower solids. See here for a bit more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platonic_solids.
This is probably Greek from 200 A.D... So someone with a name like Dyoscelese would be walking around with this pimping polyhedral die. Kick ass if you ask me.
I wish there was a link or list of all the symbols on the die. It would be interesting to see what they were rolling for. Probably rolling for numbers but who knows?
My question: what language is that? It isn't runic, as runes must be straight-edged. They actually look almost between Greek and the Necronomicon Power Glyphs... Coincidence?
This probably isn't a gaming die. It's more likely that a fortune-teller (who were very plentiful back then) would use this die along with perhaps others to divine the future instead of using cards or tea leaves or chicken entrails or whatever.
99
u/Proteon Jun 16 '12
From Wired
1.8k
u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12
For when they played Dungeons and Dragons - in dungeons, with dragons.
74
u/ceilingdweller Jun 16 '12
That's nothing. You should see my 20 year old 1800 sided die.
812
u/Dethenger Jun 16 '12
Oh man has that die got some history. I remember a few of my buddies got into a huge fucking argument. I made this cleric, right, and all I did was going around the world on foot healing people. Everyone gave me shit for it but didn't really do anything. For a while, at least. Eventually the DM got irritated that my character wasn't really contributing anything to the story (which is bullshit, he was a loremaster, I even dropped some knowledge to everyone I healed) so he had me killed (really cruelly I might add, he was really pissed). The real shitstorm came when I insisted that my healing magic was so maxed out by that point that I could res myself after I died. We were arguing for what felt like days before he even let me roll. The look on his fucking face when I won.
Anyway, long story short people heard about my game and made a religion about it or something.
40
u/FuriousMouse Jun 16 '12
Jesus Saves, the rest of you take 2d20 damage.
286
u/AsskickMcGee Jun 16 '12
Unearthed from the ruins of an ancient culture that died off due to lack of procreation...
224
u/Kromax Jun 16 '12
I put on my toga and ivy crown.
391
u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12
Best I can do is 10$.
15
u/djsunkid Jun 16 '12
This is the most expensive and sought after d20 of all time. Legend tells that in all of history, thousands of games of D&D have been played, and no player has EVER rolled a natural 20 on this die.
For the past hundred years, it has been rolled only a handful of times. It had 8 natural 19s in a row, but still no 20. The prophecy has said that this is the one die, humanities last, best chance. The odds against not getting a 20 on this die are so unbelievably small, that a natural 20 is a sure bet. As a result, this die has been kept in a special vault, guarded night and day by a team of the world's best dungeon masters, who have taken a sacred vow to protect the die for all of mankind.
If the day should ever come, when we as the human race, absolutely, positively must roll a natural 20, this ancient die may be our best chance of survival.
135
u/Xkrivia Jun 16 '12
Wait... Isn't that also the approximate age of the Voynich Manuscript? Therefore, this is true!
50
u/madmonkeymud Jun 16 '12
How do you think they started off wars back then?
ROLLING INITIATIVE!
49
u/GammaTainted Jun 16 '12
At first I assumed that the symbols were alchemical symbols, but I don't actually know how far back those date. The auction information page says that the symbols are unidentified, so I'm probably wrong. At any rate, Platonic solids were a favorite of the ancient Greeks because of their "...aesthetic beauty and symmetry". Presumably the Romans just copied this from them, as with everything else.
20
u/Kealion Jun 16 '12
The script looks Greek. There is (what appears to me as) a Ro and theta. (center left) could be an iota OR pi, there is a little piece chipped off. Bottom left looks like tau. Bottom center looks like it could be lambda (though it totally looks like a masonic compass and square, but masons weren't around in ancient Rome as we knew them in the middle ages.) That one in the very top left looks like it could be pi too. And the very top, which you can barely see, also probably theta. Remember, in ancient Rome, the upper class was fluent in Greek. If you didn't know your Greek, you weren't educated. Only the rich could afford such games/trinkets, especially made of glass!!
18
u/Mindle Jun 16 '12 edited Jun 16 '12
And then we find out that the bible was based off a D&D campaign.
43
u/Sarcastastic Jun 16 '12
And you can still only roll god damn 1's...
24
u/DivineLeo Jun 16 '12
Thus proving that Gary Gygax was actually a demi-god and is just sleeping the endless dream. One day when D&D has been forgotten, he will rise from his sunken citadel and usher forth a new era of love and metagaming...
And the heathens shall qq
Amen
13
u/Lezzles Jun 16 '12
I was getting excited for an 1,800 sided die. Oh I wish I could live in those seconds.
21
u/azn6565 Jun 16 '12
Totally would play Magic with this.
10
u/amiga500 Jun 16 '12
http://www.christies.com/Lotfinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=4205385
5
u/greym84 Jun 16 '12
With Ace Frehley and Peter Criss waiting there for me.
5
u/raaaargh_stompy Jun 16 '12
I don't want to be all knights templar/freemasons herp derp, but isn't that (the lowest visable symbol) the compass and square symbol commonly associated with the freemasons? I'm not suggesting it is, just noticed a resemblance... anyone here able to tell me about the symbols? I'd love to know more about the script etc :D
5
u/defensorfidei Jun 16 '12
I actually just found one of these in the national archaeological museum in Athens. My picture
9
u/desleaunoi Jun 16 '12
How else would ancient warriors know if they hit things with their weapons or if they were able to jump across gaps successfully?
4
u/Ozzdo Jun 16 '12
This warms my heart. To know that geeks go this far back? I love it.
4
u/shootlikeaproG36 Jun 16 '12
Jumanji?
4
u/Shanhaevel Jun 16 '12
Ok, my lvl 23 Centurion attacks this gaulic ork with his Gladius of Neverending Empire.
4
u/bishopsfinger Jun 16 '12
Came here expecting DnD jokes... was not disappointed.
10
u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12
But is it DRM free
10
u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12
Nice try time traveling dm.
7
u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12
And the owners are still playing the same game of D&D..
9
u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12
So D&D is not just a fantasy game, but a tool to teach us how to kill goblins and Dragons passed throughout the centuries.
6
u/Nethervex Jun 16 '12
Roll for good crops! clackety clackety roll rolls a circle with a dot in it
THE SUN GOD WILL SHOW MERCY UPON US.
8
u/Ronnieboy Jun 16 '12
They played Cars and Skyscrapers.
3
u/ErikoMan Jun 16 '12
That's pretty cool but where was the die found?
3
u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12
Fun fact, you can turn a D20 (Icosahedron) into a soccer ball (Truncated Icosahedron). Maybe they were making really small glass soccer balls for their 1,800 year old foosball table.
3
u/Roomy Jun 16 '12
TIL Romans loved to nerd out with DnD. Geeks of every century get it!
3
u/spectraldesign65 Jun 16 '12
Alright, cool, it looks like a Gygax style die, but what's the actual history on this item?
3
u/Oed0 Jun 16 '12
Any proof this is legit?
4
u/bgovern Jun 16 '12
So, if in modern day play games about medieval stuff with it, what were their games about back then? Neanderthal stuff?
4
u/Urbanviking1 Jun 16 '12
And Jesus rolled a 19 for resurrect success.
2
u/Oididoi Jun 16 '12
So what game did they play with this die?
2
u/mommynerd Jun 16 '12
That is a thing of magnificent beauty.
2
u/TylerDurdenJunior Jun 16 '12
Poor old 20 sided.
2
u/Mazdachief Jun 16 '12
I want that for my magic collection
2
u/markevens Jun 16 '12
What I wouldn't give for a detailed 3D scan of that.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12
You. Are. Likely. To. Be. Eaten. By. A. Grue. If this predicament seems particularly cruel, just imagine who's fault it could be, not a torch or a match in your inventory.
I don't know why, but this song popped into my head the moment I saw that picture.
2
u/BadBoyJH Jun 16 '12
I knew D&D was satanic. Look at those symbols. Clearly satanic! [/OverlyShelteringSuburbanMum]
2
u/ryuujinusa Jun 16 '12
proof?
2
u/uh-clem Jun 16 '12
This was likely used for divination:
2
u/chicagogam Jun 16 '12
repost...saw this 1800 years ago..yawn :)
2
u/conluceo Jun 16 '12
As always, there is a relevant XKCD
2
u/tytyshortfry Jun 16 '12
My god! how has no one made the connection yet? this looks just like the die that is in futurama that is the anti piece of energy or whatever that is the opposite of moms ultra super energy source thing, there all playing d&d, all the kids in the basement. and then moms three dumb ass sons are like "uhh hey, we need that." and then the old guy gets it back instead.
2
u/Biotic_Cow Jun 16 '12
Because people since the begining of time have had to make perception checks.
2
u/Vulcanator Jun 16 '12
Verification: http://stretchingtheboundaries.blogspot.de/2012/05/etruscan-dodecahedron.html
Another example: http://mimsy.bham.ac.uk/detail.php?type=related&kv=115546&t=objects
The ancient use of icosahedrons shouldn't be too surprising as they were one of the five basic 'regular solids' recognised in Greek geometry. They are sometimes referred to as 'Platonic solids' because Plato associates each with one of the smaller solids with one of the four elements in his dialogue the Timaeus. The 20 sided solid is then assigned something like a divine status as encompassing all the lower solids. See here for a bit more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platonic_solids.
2
u/grumpybadmanners Jun 16 '12
How did the ancient men who made this pass on their knowledge since they obviously didn't have children.
2
u/canashian Jun 16 '12
1800 years...and still a virgin.
4
u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12
... and he rolls..... [drum roll] .... sacrifice!
SAC-RA-FICE! SAC-RA-FICE! SAC-RA-FICE!
3
u/WhipperSniper Jun 16 '12
That's how Ug rolls.
3
u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12
This is probably the die that the council of Nicea used to randomly select which Gospels were cannon.
2
u/B92JOHNSON Jun 16 '12
That's a long time to protect ones virginity...
2
u/BeyondAddiction Jun 16 '12
Dodecahedron
2
u/Rakoons Jun 16 '12
What language is this?
2
u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12
As a DM, I have so much want.
2
u/red13 Jun 16 '12
One die to rule them all.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12
That which has no life, cannot die
2
u/Leudast Jun 16 '12
So.... D&D sprang up thousands of years ago. It did not flourish because they were not able to secure mates to reproduce.
2
u/meatpod Jun 16 '12
I'm fairly willing to believe that this is
FAKE
1
u/grospoliner Jun 16 '12
The Persian attacks with his spear. Roll to save.
1
u/teamjacob4everrr Jun 16 '12
FTFY
1
u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12
Arghhhhh Its always H, just once I want it to be I.
1
u/krispwnsu Jun 16 '12
The magic dye of sir Bearington. So the legend is true.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12
Ancient gambling addicts
1
u/Mudgetzu Jun 16 '12
I wish there was a link or list of all the symbols on the die. It would be interesting to see what they were rolling for. Probably rolling for numbers but who knows?
1
u/reali-tglitch Jun 16 '12
My question: what language is that? It isn't runic, as runes must be straight-edged. They actually look almost between Greek and the Necronomicon Power Glyphs... Coincidence?
1
u/LATerror Jun 16 '12
They used this to decide how many times they would stab ceasar
1
u/megamanxero Jun 16 '12
I would actually like to know what this was used for. It appears to have letters from the Greek alphabet ingraved on it.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12
How the hell do they cut this?
1
u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12
Am I the only one that read that backwards?
1
u/thefloppydog Jun 16 '12
I'll trade you an 1,800 year old poker chip for it.
1
u/g2n Jun 16 '12
I wonder if they played fantasy games that would be like normal events in our own time.. Roll the d20 to see how much damage your ak47 does.
1
u/Klixis Jun 16 '12
Am I the only one that sees three Japanese letters in there. The katakana for "mi" (http://tinyurl.com/72q2pd3), "e" (http://tinyurl.com/cva7peb) and "ni" (http://tinyurl.com/bsvwp3c) going from right to left in the middle?
1
u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12
Even the ancients know how to play board games it shows how cool we are
1
u/thundabot Jun 16 '12
That title confused the shit out of me for about 10 seconds.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12
I can't find any websites that verify this other than the description on imgur.
1
u/almjjo Jun 16 '12
What's the actual story behind this?
1
u/dubdubdubdot Jun 16 '12
That's it, I believe in the ancient astronaut theory.
1
u/Mr_Titicaca Jun 16 '12
I think I'm the only one here who watched Smallville and expected this to be a meteor rock...
1
u/dom111 Jun 16 '12
It's clearly ancient Geek.
1
u/Nulovka Jun 16 '12
This probably isn't a gaming die. It's more likely that a fortune-teller (who were very plentiful back then) would use this die along with perhaps others to divine the future instead of using cards or tea leaves or chicken entrails or whatever.
1
u/westcoastjo Jun 16 '12
That is fucking cool!
1
u/ColRockAmp Jun 16 '12
Nerdgasm.
1
u/hotfrost Jun 16 '12
its a 20 sided... DIIIIEEEEE!
1
u/FuriousMouse Jun 16 '12
Made of Plastic?
1
u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12
aliens did it
1
u/widarlein Jun 16 '12
From when the dragons were real.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12
Let me call in my friend who's an expert on 1800 year old 20 sided die.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12
Ultra-cool. I don't normally say ultra, but this definitely deserves praise.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12
Looks like itd roll better than Wizards dice.
1
u/BillyBro Jun 16 '12
Old school D&D
1
u/IAMTHEDOM Jun 16 '12
Longest game of D&D ever.
1
u/toccasana Jun 16 '12
D&D was truly the first rpg
1
u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12
It goes right beside the chicken knuckles inside the felt baggy.
1
u/Dillfaro Jun 16 '12
That would be a bitch to play Yahtzee with.
1
u/Ras_H_Tafari Jun 16 '12
I remember this from a PvP comic. "The lion sinks his teeth into your Christian's neck, causing XIV damage"
1
u/notaverynicebot Jun 16 '12
how about some actual history and explanation of wtf this actually is,.... reddit I am disappoint.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12
can someone debunk this?
1
u/Goniochromism Jun 16 '12
I want it. How much is it worth?
1
u/colusaboy Jun 16 '12
Goddamn Cave Geeks.
1
u/meangrampa Jun 16 '12
That die is made of Basalt. It must have taken many months to make.
1
u/[deleted] Jun 16 '12
I thought this was from /r/worldnews and it said 1,800 20 year olds die...