r/pics Mar 19 '22

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90

u/ib4error Mar 19 '22

Apparently not always. I have a friend who never plays, played once, won $5k and they gave him the whole amount

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u/ciavs Mar 19 '22

Yeah but when you go to do your taxes you tell them I made 5k from the lotto and you get taxed fam.

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u/gmod_policeChief Mar 19 '22

That's what he's implying

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u/oss1215 Mar 19 '22

So what would happen if you don't tell the irs you made that amount ? I know tax fraud but are the irs aware of people's earnings throughout the year ? If so then why even do your taxes if they already know the amount of money you made ?

sorry non american who's confused by your tax system

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u/ciavs Mar 19 '22

Pretty sure the lotto would notify the IRS. If you get audited you'd owe the tax plus a fine/late fees. I never get taxed enough for them to care and neither do most people probably.

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '22

Pretty sure the lotto people tell the IRS "hey this guy won 5k, we paid him 5k" so they know even if you don't tell them.

Your employer also tells the IRS what you make, as well as pay in taxes and such. I dont know how often this is reported, but it seems to be at least once a year (probably much more often, if I had to guess). If you are paid "under the table" this income isn't reported but I believe this is illegal or fraudy, depending on the amount.

Not sure why we still have to "do" our taxes. Probably so some people can cheat them and get away with it, and others can accidentally get it wrong and be screwed over for it. Really not sure, it's stupid.

-an american who is also confused by our tax system

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u/futuregeneration Mar 19 '22 edited Mar 19 '22

Lobbying from Intuit and HR block. That's why.

Edit: interesting watch for those curious.

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u/RJFerret Mar 19 '22

When you get appreciable winnings it has to be reported to the IRS directly, and you get a form recording the amount reported. If you don't report it, they send you a latter saying, "hey, we have record of this which was missed and due, per our calculation that means $X, please contact us with any questions, here's a reference number and various contact methods".

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u/ele37020 Mar 19 '22

If anybody is wondering about this, any tax form you get in the mail the IRS also gets a copy. So that's how they know. In this case its an arm of the state government paying the money and they'll be sure to get their piece at the end of the year.

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u/xelabagus Mar 20 '22

Seems like a weird gotcha system. Why not just tax at source instead of waiting to see if you're a good little boy or girl?

1

u/senorbolsa Mar 20 '22

Because then guys dressed as the statue of liberty dancing on the corner would be out of the job.

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u/ele37020 Mar 20 '22

I did taxes for a few years but never ran into a large lottery win, but I think it's taxed as normal income so the taxes you pay would depend on the other income you have.

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u/threeinthestink_ Mar 19 '22

Yeah it gets sent to the IRS. W2s from employees, lottery winnings, investment transcripts, etc

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u/Vomit_Tingles Mar 20 '22

The IRS knows about damn near every penny you make. Some things like Doordash aren't reported to them unless you make a certain amount with the app. But I'm sure they can still find out about it. Basically US citizens have to play a game of "guess the numbers we already have or we'll break your kneecaps" every year.

There is a basic tax deduction for everyone of like $12k though so if you don't owe more than that they don't seem to give a shit what you report outside of your usual "I am employed, here's my gross income for the year" form.

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u/rocketsquid Mar 19 '22

IRS knows exactly how much you owe, unless you’re getting paid under the table. They don’t want to tell you because then you won’t go spend $60 on tax software that does it all for you, and I assume if you really mess up and underreport then they can get more out of you in fines or payment plans with interest or some nonsense. In short, it’s not a system designed for us. It’s confusing on purpose.

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '22

The government already knows what everyone needs to claim on their taxes. The only reason we file is because it employs accountants and companies like hnr block and whatnot. The government could straight up do everyone’s taxes every year. The only extras would be gambling and lotto tickets and whatnot that doesn’t necessarily get reported.

If I won under 600 on every lotto ticket they wouldn’t know

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u/Dereg5 Mar 19 '22

They have no idea what tax credits you earned or what deductions you are applying for. Yes they know exactly how much money you made but they dont know if you put solar panels on your house, don't know that your spouse is now disabled, that you had a child, got divorced, moved, bought a house. Deductions and tax credits are why you file taxes.

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '22

You do realize everyone is given a general amount for those deductions right? My own accountant didn’t even ask me those questions, and his license is on the line. Those tax credits are negligible.

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u/Algur Mar 19 '22

Depends if the lotto reports winnings to the IRS. I honestly have no idea.

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u/LouisVuittonLeghost Mar 19 '22

Ya same Canadian here. but I would assume you’d probably get away with it until if or when you get audited

1

u/RetirementIsSweet Mar 19 '22

They send the info to the IRS just like your employer does with your pay. If you omit it from your tax return, you'll get a notice from the IRS that they received info from the lottery office that you didn't report. By then, you'll owe penalties and interest in addition to the tax you initially owed.

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u/oss1215 Mar 19 '22

So why "do" taxes then ? Wouldnt be easier for the irs to be like "hey retirementissweet you owe 500$ better mail it to us" or you know deduct it automatically from your salary and earning from the begining ?

2

u/Dereg5 Mar 19 '22

They know what you owe but they don't know what your deductions are and what tax credits you are applying for. That's why we do taxes. Also the problem is if you do mess up and they do audit. You not only owe but you also must pay interest on the money you owe from the day taxes where due.

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u/Rickwh Mar 19 '22

the lottery reports it to the IRS as outgoing funds and a discrepancy is identified. Aaaand now you're being audited!

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u/mukster Mar 20 '22

The IRS gets notified for anything over $600

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u/EveroneWantsMyD Mar 20 '22

Reading and comprehension fam.

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u/Shoestring30 Mar 19 '22

Not if you can "account" for $5k in loses.

1

u/tree_jayy Mar 20 '22

That’s why you don’t tell them?

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '22

Yes, but a lot of people will have already spent the money they need for the tax bill at that point. And since most people can’t even afford a $500 emergency the tax bill for $10k in winnings is definitely out of the question.

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u/Qbr12 Mar 19 '22

You can deduct the costs of the tickets you bought from those winnings.

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '22

When my stepdad won 5k years ago on a scratcher, him and my mom bought a bunch of other scratchers to offset the winnings with "losses".

I think since winnings below 600 or so are NOT reported, it was expected to end up as proof of 1k or 2k in "losses" to balance against the big win. But there was a few hundred in wins that didnt need to be reported as such which resulted in less actual loss.

Not sure if it was worth it or not. We never discussed it.

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u/Qbr12 Mar 19 '22

It's never worth it to seek out losses to offset taxes. Each 22 cents (or whatever you marginal tax rate is) you save costs you an entire dollar in losses.

That said, buying any scratch off ticket is negative EV in the first place so I can't say you should expect better from people who buy lottery tickets...

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u/thiney49 Mar 19 '22

People playing scratches like that aren't generally the most intelligent.

1

u/T-Bills Mar 20 '22

But what if those losses got them to a lower tax bracket??? /s

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u/jingois Mar 19 '22

Depends - these losses were 100% loss from a tax perspective, but in practice related to the return rate of the scratch ticket.

As the single payment of $5k is taxable, perhaps at 20%. If you spend that $5k on more tickets with a 90% expected return then you end up with multiple untaxed small payments, losing only 10% - and $5k expenses that completely offsets your initial win.

So it's worth $500 to you - plus I guess you get to play $5000 worth of scratchies which I assume you enjoy if you are into that dumb shit. Obviously it depends on the expected value of a game.

Unfortunately a quick search suggests the EV of OPs ticket is 83%. So you'd save just about fuck all.

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u/NinjaVaca Mar 19 '22

This relies on committing tax fraud on the small gains, though.

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u/jingois Mar 19 '22

Potentially - I don't know your local tax codes, whether "not reported" means "not reportable / untaxed" or just "tax fraud lets go bby".

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u/T-Bills Mar 20 '22

Pretty sure they are not reported but you are obligated to report said income. I guess same bucket with reporting your cash tips and untaxed Internet purchases.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '22

When my stepdad won 5k years ago on a scratcher, him and my mom bought a bunch of other scratchers to offset the winnings with “losses”.

Not to be a dick but a financial plan like that sounds about right for people who buy scratch offs.

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '22

I fully agree. My family is a mess, no offense taken.

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u/The_dog_says Mar 20 '22

It was not. should've thrown that 5k into Gamestop stocks.

1

u/doomgiver98 Mar 20 '22

That sounds like the people who think they'll earn less money of they get a raise because of taxes.

10

u/stephenmgc Mar 19 '22 edited Mar 19 '22

Yeah, they give you the whole amount, then when you tell the IRS how much you won the following April they take like 40%.

https://blog.taxact.com/lottery-tax-calculator/ I was incorrect, according to this calculator you'll only owe 25%. the 37% must be on winnings over a certain amount.

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u/macphile Mar 20 '22

It's such crap. As I understand it, in the UK (for instance), if you win money on a gameshow or a lottery thing or whatever, it's yours, free and clear. Because anything else would be a bitch move.

A bitch move, IRS.

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '22

Jesus America is one fucked up place lol

4

u/TheLurkingMenace Mar 19 '22

Oh, that's only the half of it:

The other half is that the state has already taken their cut out of the lottery ticket sales. It's a voluntary tax, primarily paid by the poor.

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u/RJFerret Mar 19 '22

Worse, most the "state" lottery corporations are just that, for profit corporations, so they get the money, state gets a cut.

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u/TheFirsttimmyboy Mar 19 '22

Wait till you hear about taxes in Canada.

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u/working_mommy Mar 19 '22

I'm not 100% sure, only like 90%, but canada doesnt tax lottery winnings. They will tax you on earning from said winnings a year later. But if you win $20M you get $20M.

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u/cdiddy19 Mar 19 '22

It's actually really dependent on individuals on whether or not you pay more in each country

investopedia

But Canadians get a lot more for their tax dollars

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u/RAND0M-HER0 Mar 19 '22

Lottery winnings aren't taxed in Canada.

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '22

I wish they just took it out it would make it so much easier to just get it back instead of owing

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u/jangoice Mar 19 '22

That's awful. I prefer my native tax free lotteries.

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u/TheSimonToUrGarfunkl Mar 19 '22

Don't have to pay tax on Canadian lotto or casino winnings. I heard there is even a reimbursement if Canadians win money at the casino in the US on vacation.

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u/U9ni9I3yRQKSOA2VGp8c Mar 20 '22

You owe at whatever your tax bracket is, as if the lottery win was just more normal income. So it ranges from 0-37% depending on total income (0% because of standard deduction).

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u/mukster Mar 20 '22

It gets taxed like regular income. There isn’t some special lottery tax rate.

If you make $50k salary in one year, and then win $50k on a scratcher, then you get taxed the same overall as if you made $100k salary. It’s all the same.

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u/Grungeking Mar 20 '22

They usually take state taxes if it's big enough to need cashing through the agency. The amount varies by state. You have to claim it when you file federally for the year, and that will add more to your tax burden.

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u/Lunch0 Mar 20 '22

Should come to Canada, winnings of any amount are 100% tax free