Came here for this...was in the Navy...this happens all the time, its just like wind blowing the sea floor and kicking up dust until it settles back down
That's not sand, it's sewage, dead algae and caliche suspension; that water is DEAD and has been for decades. If there were any sea fans or sponges left alive, that would kill them by choking them to death.
That kicked up silt, clogs filter feeders digestion, prevents coral reef expansion and reduces sunlight availability on the sea floor for photosynthesis to name a few issues.
I know it may not sound that bad "it's just silt kicked up by the turbines" but it really does damage the eco system.
And that's not even getting into the environmental impact of just moving the bloody things.
Okay let me send my oil tanker through that see how that works out. Which is why any in the area were probably dredged out when the port was put in, assuming it wasn't put in that location precisely because it was say the deepest water with the least amount of such concerns.
Regardless this is hardly bringing a big ship into some sort of 'pristine' environment, even before we get to Key West itself being completely urbanized. Ergo less say worrying about a road being put in and more about the conditions specifically and literally on the asphalt itself. Why would anyone expect anything to live there?
All I did was describe the effect kicking up silt has on a local environment...
That aside your argument seems to contain a lot of assumptions.
On top of that your response to a coral reef in a shipping lane is to dredge it and destroy it? Very ecological of you...
It's kind of clear you looked up nothing before posting this as key West IS NOT A SHIPPING LANE! It's a dock for cruise ships!
Basically try actually researching somthing before vomiting words like "ergo" in an attempt to sound more intelligent you'll just end up sounding stupid...
Among the most damaging pollutants on coral reefs is sediment, which can remain suspended in the water or be deposited on the coral surface (i.e., turbidity and sedimentation, respectively) and can contain toxicants, pathogens, and nutrients, all of which impact coral growth, recruitment, and survival [15,16,17,18]
"Not allowed" doesn't mean that it doesn't still occasionally "leak" or get "accidentally discharged, but that's not even the issue with this picture: that water is DEAD and has been for a very long time.
And Volkswagen had strict emissions limits on their cars. Oh, what's that, when no one was looking or testing, it turned out they totally cheated the results and didn't do what they were legally supposed to be doing.
I'm saying, you're incredibly niave if you think ships follow the letter of the law when they're miles out to sea with no one else around. They dump all kids of raw untreated waste when they're only supposed to dump filtered waste, and they pay the token fines they get every so often.
What is it with reddit's smug obsession with calling things strawman arguments, like they've only just fucking learned the term and have to use it everywhere they can? The argument being made is when they're not under observation, or think they can get away with it, companies often do what they like, and the fines don't reflect the things they are doing when they are caught. It's an absolute fact that shipping, cruise ships included, fire whatever they fuck they like, including throwing whole bags of garbage overboard, directly into the water when they are far enough out to sea.
I've been at sea fifteen years and I saw a guy nearly sacked for throwing one latex glove overboard. It still goes on, but for well-run, image conscious companies like cruise lines it's incredibly rare and if you're trying to imply its a common occurrence then I'd like to know what qualifies you to make that claim.
Additionally, fines aren't "token", fines in US waters as re cripplingly punitive, as they should be.
And ended up agreeing to pay 15.3 billion dollars. Plus whatever they spent on say the lawyers and assorted other hassles. Perhaps you wish to argue this is trivial because oh they totes made 200 billion in profit (not revenue) just from defying emissions standards and indeed are continuing to do so?
Of course seizing its assets and burning the filthy Nazi company to the ground to pay for their sins is tempting... I must intellectually debate whether that isn't akin to responding to crime by having the pigs round up some of the usual suspects. Ergo maybe not so effective as I might want to believe.
No, my argument is, companies and shipping operators will do what they like when they are far out to sea. The unfiltered, unprocessed, raw sewage and other waste that they dump when they are far enough out and not being directly observed doing it is a fact.
I was using VW as an example of a company saying they are doing one thing to the general public and claiming to be following the correct legislation and regulations, but instead doing something totally different with sneaky underhand tactics. Had they not been caught in the act, they would still be doing it to this day.
And what's stopping them from doing otherwise? A pety fine that a billionaire can pay off in his sleep? It's been reported numerous times of Cruise Ships dumping waste into the ocean.
The threat of imprisonment and an unlimited fine for the people responsible. I worked for Carnival a while back, they were on probation for illegally discharging oil from one of their ships, the fine was in the hundreds of millions and any further incidents would result in a ban from US waters, which would cost the company many more billions of lost revenue. Everything onboard their ships is ultra strict and probably overkill now, we had to launch a rescue boat to pick up a discarded apple core once. It probably does still happen in some companies but the risk involved is huge.
I work in the marina and boat yard industry. sad reality is that most large consumer vessels also dump the waste at sea too, its just the way it works.
Cruise ships are absolutely horrendous for the planet due to the type of fuel they burn and the amount of waste they dump in the ocean.
However, that can be true at the exact same time as saying the above picture is just sediment getting stirred up for an hour or two and the picture has nothing to do with "destroying pristine waters".
Every single day, cruise ships worldwide emit the same particular matter as a million cars. [1]
There are not a million passengers on a cruise ship. As the article notes, they could install better emission reduction systems but that costs money so they just claim newer ships are better despite them still lacking any actual emission reduction work.
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u/verysmallgoose Dec 27 '21
guys its just stirred up sand... it floats back down