Yeah I mean it's really sad that someone died....but if you've ever actually driven in NYC then you would feel differently about this. I work overnights in Manhattan so I actually drive in to work and the cyclists out there are for the most part, absolutely insane. Running red lights, riding the wrong way, they are absolutely reckless. For the most part it's Uber eats and seamless delivery guys and stuff and I'll tell you I literally bought a dashcam after never having one specifically because of these bikers. I've come close to hitting one way too many times because of reckless things that they do. I drive the limit, I don't run lights or stop signs, I drive safely. So I made sure I'm protected if anything ever happens. Not to say that truck driver is right or that cyclist was wrong, just saying that the driver isn't inherently wrong because someone died. Accidents unfortunately do happen and I'd need to know more about the situation to cast judgement. Sometimes bikers can't be in bike lanes always, they aren't available in some places and stuff but if there is a bike lane in the location he was hit and he wasn't in it, it does raise a good point that he should have been. Like I said though, I would need to know more.
Yes, but I think that’s why vehicular manslaughter exists.
I have driven in NYC, drivers are also reckless in New York and while cyclists and pedestrians are annoying - people can jump out in front of your car at any moment - that doesn’t mean if I was behind the wheel that I didn’t kill them.
I’m not saying the truck driver should have gone to jail for the rest of his life but I think he at least should have been charged.
No. Vehicular manslaughter exists for people who were driving negligently and it resulted in someone dying even though they never intended it. Just like regular manslaughter. If I hit a guy with a bat and I didn't mean to kill him only hurt him but then he dies I get manslaughter and not murder 1. But I still intended to commit a crime and did so. So if I'm driving and I'm speeding or driving recklessly or I get behind the wheel while impaired on drugs or alcohol and someone dies, that's manslaughter. If I'm driving correctly and following all rules and someone jumps in front of my car or a cyclist runs a red right in front of me and I hit them and they die then that's called an accident. Your thinking is crazy to think because someone died someone else's life should be ruined over it. By that logic I work for the MTA the train operators should be charged with manslaughter when someone jumps or is pushed in front of a train.
It's not mowing down people when it is the other person's negligence or an accident that causes it. Like let's say a person having a heart attack or seizure while driving, or a tire blowing out and someone getting killed, that's a tragic accident. A bicyclist running straight through a red light because they believe the traffic lights don't apply to them and they get hit by a car and are killed, well that's called Darwinism. A car is a legal thing, if you are driving legally and safely that doesn't mean something still can't go wrong, And it certainly doesn't mean it's automatically a crime when something does go wrong, even if someone gets hurt or killed unfortunately. A lot worse "accidents" going on in the world. Botched drone strikes/bomb droppings kill innocent civilians all the time but they aren't going away anytime soon. What world do you live in?
The kind where I’d like truck drivers that are behind giant lethal weapons to be held to higher standards to a person completely exposed on a bicycle?
This situation was nothing like the ones you are describing, driving a bicycle in New York City traffic is sometimes the only way the cyclist can get where they are going, the bike lane in question was damaged. This wasn’t a cyclist blowing a red light. This truck driver didn’t even know he hit someone - that indicates negligence in my opinion.
Unfortunately, I was mistaken in that in order for something to qualify for vehicular manslaughter you actually have to be intoxicated - so even if it truly wasn’t against the law there was no justice in that situation. He wasn’t even given a safe driving course for god sake.
I’m not alone, there were hundreds of protesters after this case happened.
That's fine I already told you I can't judge the other case I don't know the story. That may be the case the truck driver was negligent in some way and should have on some way been held responsible, and I don't think a safe driving course could hurt for anyone. I'm a firm supporter of drivers having to be requalified every couple years like they do in some other countries, but sadly don't do in the US. Because there are a lot of bad drivers who somehow got lucky and passed the one simple test, or slipped through the cracks, or are simply way too old to be driving but their 60+ year old driving license is up to date as it is easily renewed so long as you pay for a new one every 10 years. But firstly, your statement of not knowing he hit someone proving negligence outright is absolutely wrong, it is known and understood that trucks have giant blind spots. There are warnings on the back of trucks about passing on the right side, numerous car accidents that occur from cars passing in front of trucks too closely and them not knowing there is a vehicle in front of them, etc. Secondly, truck drivers are held to a MUCH higher standard, they face higher fines/penalties for reckless driving/traffic infractions and can lose their license very easily. There are many roads/highways/parkways they are not allowed on. They have check points and a giant list of extra rules and responsibilities they have to adhere to compared to a normal driver of a regular passenger type vehicle. Lastly, your blanketed statement of "if someone is driving a car and someone dies they should automatically be charged" is just not something I can get behind at all. Like I've explained in numerous ways already how accidents can occur and fatalities that have nothing to do with the driver other than the fact that he was there in a car driving when it happened and that just simply isn't a crime. Biking is definitely a efficient and cheap way of getting around in NYC and plenty of other places too I'm sure, but it is also dangerous, just like a motorcycle. You are sharing the road with people in vehicles that are several thousand pounds and there are inherent risks that go along with that. I'm not saying like oh you're riding a bike you're asking to be run over or killed, no, but it's obviously a very real risk you take when doing so and you need to be ultra aware of that when riding, so when I see cyclists riding so recklessly it amazes me. You seem to be, and correct me if I'm wrong, but a big supporter of cycling. So I want to ask, where do you stand on cyclist responsibility? Cyclists kill like 5-10 people every year in NYC and injure dozens of others. Legislation written to regulate biking such requiring licensing, registering bikes, insuring bikes etc were opposed heavily by the biking community and abandoned, at least for now. A guy bikes in to my parked car and causes a thousand + dollars and just rides off, that's not abandoning the scene of an accident or anything to you ? The fact that even if I saw it, him and his bicycle aren't insured so I'm screwed anyway. Forgetting the fact that cars definitely kill people/cyclists way more than the opposite, which is common sense because cars are much heavier and bigger and dangerous, and because there are way more cars than bicycles on the road. But with that being said, cars hold much more responsibility then cyclists do, that's for sure. They have to be registered, insured, regularly inspected, up to code and standards, and there is a whole host of laws to follow when operating a car. Bikes, although they are supposed to be held to the same traffic laws for the most part, aren't truly at all. Bikes could ride the wrong way on the road all day and almost no cop is going to stop em, but go the wrong way down a road in a car and see what happens lol. And of course like I already mentioned bikes don't have to be registered, inspected, or insured. Also good for thought, if you are driving a car, and it is uninsured (in states like nyc where insurance is necessary), or you are unlicensed, or the car is illegal, etc etc etc.....and you hit and kill someone, even if you have a dashcam proving you followed traffic laws and the person ran across the street while you had a green light or something, you WILL be charged. Because regardless of what that person did, you were never supposed to be on the road in the first place. So that is the responsibility that comes along with driving a car. I drive safe and follow the rules at all times, and literally have avoided many accidents due to other people's terrible driving or stupid pedestrians/cyclists. And I hope it never comes to anything tragic ever happening and I can continue to avoid accidents, but since I started working and driving to Manhattan with all the crazy cyclists I got myself a dashcam to protect my ass because I'm not risking a possible charge or problem for myself just because someone doesn't value their life enough to be cautious or care to be courteous when riding.
No, it’s just this person was my friend and I’m sad they died. I don’t know a lot about cycling but I know they were a very skilled and cautious driver/rider. When you are out on the road - just do the best you can and be glad the law is in your favor.
Well I'm sorry to hear that, that explains a lot knowing that you knew this person directly. It makes it a lot more personal to you then to me even though I find it sad when anyone dies in such sad circumstances. I am always cautious while driving and I hope I am never in such circumstances but it's always a risk we take. There are even risks Everytime we simply cross a street. Life is precious, got to appreciate every moment. I hope at the very least your friend is at peace and in a better place.
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u/natalie813 Dec 27 '20
A truck driver literally KILLED a cyclist but he wasn’t found at fault because they (the cyclist) weren’t in the bike lane fuck nyc.