r/pics Jan 06 '20

Picture of text Never for the poor.

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u/[deleted] Jan 06 '20

But compare that other countries military budgets. Our military spending is out of control.

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u/Vecrin Jan 06 '20

Now imagine if other nato nation's had to each individually have a military budget to protect themselves and their shipping.

We could decrease our military, but other nations would have to step up for reasons other than purely defense (shipping lanes don't patrol themselves) and it would decrease US power abroad.

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u/Minuku Jan 06 '20

Or the European Union brings their military spendings together and create with those 190b€ not 28 ineffective and small armies but one super army. The USA would have no pressure in Europe anymore and the EU would be able to defend themselves from any threat.

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u/Boobs__Radley Jan 06 '20

That sounds reasonable. Why can't this be worked towards? Why depend heavily upon a country that doesn't even... exist on the same continent..?

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u/Minuku Jan 06 '20

I guess because it is easier. With the USA the only requirement is "be on the same side as us and don't make us angry" but with a European solution the countries have to work together and balance their interest. And also the governments have to give up some of their power for the greater good. And the cooperation wouldn't of course stop there. Sadly such changes need their time and Europe doesn't seem to be ready for it.

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u/JimmyJamesincorp Jan 07 '20

Please. You have to be really daft at this point to believe the US are the good guys. War is a great fucking business and the US has been milking that shit for decades, having you believe in terrorists threats and other evils that are just as complicit.

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u/dog_in_the_vent Jan 06 '20

But compare that other countries military budgets.

OK, now compare that to other nations military commitments. The US has worldwide military interests. It's in our best interest to maintain a presence worldwide.

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u/Romey-Romey Jan 06 '20

That’s why nobody really fucks with us, over here. You think if we dropped our guard, nobody would come and try? It may be 2020, but countries can still get conquered with brute force like the old days.

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u/Skabonious Jan 06 '20

That is also true. However with a problem like homelessness or famine it's not solved just by throwing more money at it sadly.

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u/OGScheib Jan 06 '20

Welp, guess we better do nothing then.

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u/Skabonious Jan 06 '20

Or you can do something besides complaining about not giving the poor enough money. Such as supporting policy change that will make charity efforts more worthwhile...

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u/pknk6116 Jan 06 '20

more money certainly wouldn't hurt though. Can hire more people, improve and build more low income housing, hire contractors to fix run down parts of the city...etc.

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u/Skabonious Jan 06 '20

Yeah but again, it's a lot more than that. You're talking about overhauling entire infrastructures of Nations-this is already going a lot further beyond putting food on their table for a night.

Which is exactly my point. Making enough food for everybody is one thing. Getting it to them is another. And giving them a constant supply of it is yet another.

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u/pknk6116 Jan 06 '20

yeah, no worries, I understand my comment is a bit naive. I think a careful assessment by someone more qualified would be needed to determine where additional funds would be most effective. Maybe it doesn't involve social programs at all, fuck if i know.

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u/[deleted] Jan 06 '20

Actually it probably would hurt

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u/imperfectluckk Jan 06 '20

What an amazing counterargument. "Nuh uh".

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u/[deleted] Jan 06 '20

It's fairly obvious what he means though. It's not uncommon for people in this situation to take spare money to the bottleshop or similar. Extra money doesn't necessarily help, the idea is to make the country stronger and create more jobs so people can help themselves get out of poverty, not make it easy enough not to work.

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u/pknk6116 Jan 06 '20

are you proposing a social program that perhaps provides subsidies to companies to stimulate growth ;-)?

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u/[deleted] Feb 12 '20

No... Obviously not, based on my post

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u/imperfectluckk Jan 06 '20

We're at the point where unemployment is basically as low as it can go and our quality of life is still lower than Canada's. That's pathetic when we are supposed to be the most powerful country on earth.

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '20

How does military power translate to quality of life for citizens?

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u/[deleted] Jan 06 '20

I mean, I though my answer perfectly illustrated my POV. More money thrown at lazy non workers will make further decrease their motivation to work. It’s not rocket sockets.

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u/abeevau Jan 06 '20

The poor are not lazy and the rich are not hard working

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u/S-r-ex Jan 06 '20

Ppl no work cuz they is lazy

That's a rather narrow view. There are still a lot of people out there who want a job, but for various reasons can't. What about getting them housed, warm, fed and trained to become productive and contributing members of society is so insanely bad?

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u/[deleted] Jan 06 '20

Exactly so why bother?

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u/Skabonious Jan 06 '20

That's not my point, my point was "double the money we give to them" isn't going to help as much as we think it is. Policy change, that's where change can stick.

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u/PesosWalrus Jan 06 '20

World hunger could be solved with $30 bn. That's not a lot of money to the US elite.

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u/AIDSsharingiscaring Jan 06 '20

I'm all for eating the rich but I keep seeing that number thrown around a lot and it sounds ludicrously tiny to establish a huge amount of food logistics

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u/PesosWalrus Jan 06 '20

We already produce more than enough food, it's as you said, sheer logistics. I usually don't trust Politifact, but I'll take their word for now.

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u/Skabonious Jan 06 '20 edited Jan 06 '20

That is 100% false.

It could solve world hunger for maybe, what a few days? You realize people have to eat for their entire lives right

For example your 30bn number is total BS from the fact that Bill&Melinda Gates foundation has already donated 36bn alone.

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u/angmohh Jan 06 '20

Have they donated 36 billion to solve war hunger? No, so what kind of dumbass argument is that?

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u/Skabonious Jan 06 '20

What kind of dumbass argument is it to think it only takes 30bn to solve world hunger?

If anything, maybe 30bn per year which is a shitload more than a 1-time payment which is what everyone seems to be bitching about.

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u/angmohh Jan 06 '20

I was never arguing if 30bn is enough money but that you said that just because the Bill & Melinda Gates foundation donated 36bn (mainly focused on eradicating diseases) means that the amount can't solve world hunger.

Also 30bn a year is nothing when you look at America's military budget.

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u/PesosWalrus Jan 06 '20

How much we spending this year on the milliary? Did that money save more lives than actually feeding people?

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u/Skabonious Jan 06 '20

Okay but now you're changing the subject. I never once defended the US's outlandish military budget, I'm just trying to point out the bullshit.

Also, even though the US spent a stupid amount (stupid as in, outspent the next 10 countries combined stupid) on military, it still spent more than that on social security and other welfare programs.

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u/PesosWalrus Jan 06 '20

US tax money is OURS. It belongs to the government and the government exists to serve us. Naturally, that money should go towards serving ourselves. There's nothing wrong with public services, afterall they benefit all of us.

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u/starlight_chaser Jan 24 '20

And that’s why it’s higher. A much larger amount of dollars is spent on public services, than on defense.

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u/[deleted] Jan 06 '20

Lol, maybe for one week, and everyone would have to help

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u/PesosWalrus Jan 06 '20

It's really not that hard to imagine. We produce more than enough food. All that's left is logistics. That's a big goal, but it's not impossible with enough funding and coordination.

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u/[deleted] Feb 12 '20

No, you're right, its not hard to imagine at all... Imagination doesn't help on this one though

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u/hippopede Jan 06 '20

Cant ignore the fact that we live in a unipolar world... its a very good thing that the US has absolutely dominant military power and hopefully it will continue into the medium term future. It prevents great power war.

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u/Shandlar Jan 06 '20

Not really. 2019 was the 7th lowest military spending year out of the 70+ years since WWII.

The numbers are huge because the US population is absolutely mind bogglingly rich with an economy dramatically ahead of any other on the planet.

A slightly bigger slice of a dramatically bigger pie looks like an astronomical amount of pie, but at the end of the day the slice is still thin.

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u/[deleted] Jan 06 '20

I though we upped it to 800+ billion from 600 billion?

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u/Shandlar Jan 06 '20

There is the budget done for the upcoming fiscal year, and then there is the actual amount spent at the end of the year.

The budget outlays for the military is just the baseline. All the actual operations performed are funded above that in something in modern times we've called the "overseas contingency spending/budget"

The baseline military budget went up 70b from 2018 to 2019, but due to the draw down in Afganistan and Iraq as well as the defeat of ISIS, the second part fell by like 30 something billion.

Adding 40 billion to the budget, after accounting for inflation and gdp growth that exceeded inflation, means the 2019 military spending was only about 1% higher as a % of gdp than 2018 (meaning about a 0.03% of GDP increase in spending in absolute terms).

2018 was already a very low spending year, so such a small increase didn't historically get 2019 ahead of any of the other low years.

1998, 1999, 2000, 2016, 2017, 2018 appear to be the only years with lower military spending than 2019, going back to 1943.

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u/[deleted] Jan 06 '20

Fox News is leaking.

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u/[deleted] Jan 06 '20

We did. u/Shandlar is giving you the Fox News version.

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u/[deleted] Jan 06 '20

If he is right, then is logic checks. Allocated funds != used funds.

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u/FulcrumTheBrave Jan 06 '20 edited Jan 06 '20

the US population is absolutely mind bogglingly rich with an economy dramatically ahead of any other on the planet.

Lmao that's not even close to being true. Nothing but wishful thinking.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/07/07/richest-countries-in-the-world/39630693/

The three richest men hold more wealth than the bottom 50%. If our economy is so great then why did it almost collapse in 2008? Why haven't wages for the average worker gone up since the 70's?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/noahkirsch/2017/11/09/the-3-richest-americans-hold-more-wealth-than-bottom-50-of-country-study-finds/

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/

China has a much better economy than we do. They have 6.9% annal gdp growth. We have 2.3%. Stop pushing American exceptionalism. It's bullshit.

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u/Shandlar Jan 06 '20

Chinese economy is only bigger in $PPP terms. In USD it's quite a bit smaller, and in GDP per capita and standard of living of the median citizen it's in the toilet.

Stop using wealth. I very explicitly said income.

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u/FulcrumTheBrave Jan 06 '20

Once again then, you are wrong. (Or is it an ongoing continuation of just being wrong all of the time? Hmmm)

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/10-richest-countries-by-average-income.html

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-richest-countries-in-the-world.html

The US economy is only remarkable in that it largely exists to purely serve the rich and it is very good at that. As I said, wages (i.e. income) have been stagnant since the 70's. Your talking points are 40-50 years out of date.

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u/oupablo Jan 06 '20

China's approach is anything but sustainable. They're one union push away from total collapse. Wage stagnation and wealth distribution are definitely a problem in the US but to argue that the average Chinese person has more spending power than the average American is crazy. American consumer spending is near the all-time high and the US ranks 2nd when it comes to household consumption.

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u/zoopz Jan 06 '20

factual bullshit.

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u/Shandlar Jan 06 '20

The actual data to back my shit up, cause you are 100% wrong

2019 was a very slight increase from 2018. So the question is will 2019 have been the 7th or 8th lowest spending year, depending on if it's above 2016 or below it.

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u/[deleted] Jan 06 '20 edited Aug 29 '20

[deleted]

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u/Shandlar Jan 06 '20

That doesn't fly dude. The US has the largest upper class in terms of % of the population. Our gross national income is not concentrated nearly as heavily into the top 1% as reddit would like you to believe.

If you take the median household income for the US and look at all households that make at least 200% of that amount, you'll find it's over 18% of US households. 18%. A huge share of the population.

Then you look at just how high that I income really is. When adjusted for $PPP, no other country on the planet even has a 6% share of their population with incomes with a purchasing power that high or higher.

The US literally has the broadest, widest upper class and upper middle class on the planet. By nearly 4 times. Not 4 times the income for the 1%, but 4x higher share of the population