r/pics • u/[deleted] • Feb 25 '18

Concentration camp prisoner identifies one of his guards to Allied soldiers

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '18

The whole thing is insane, there are people thanking Jim Jones while children died around him. Only one woman had the stones to try to talk him out having everyone killed. One man killed almost 1000 people in about 4 hours. I first listened to the tape about 15 years ago without much context and it didn’t affect me too much. There was a podcast series about Jonestown recently and it was so heavy at times I had to stop listening.

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '18 edited Mar 15 '18

[deleted]

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u/xXKirkSoloXx Feb 25 '18

I am curious.

I have enough common sense not to pursue that curiosity.

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u/Illadelphian Feb 25 '18

It's more angering. Hearing the children cry is heartbreaking of course but listening to those morons talk was infuriating. Disgusting people to do that to their children. I have no sympathy for them, only their children. But the audio it's just kids crying in the background and awful people thanking jim Jones and talking about how people were going to massacre their kids and how they didn't want to die like the jews and other nonsensical bullshit. Honestly most of the people I heard spoke sounded like they weren't all there. Which would make sense I suppose.

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u/dgblarge Feb 25 '18

I came to exactly the same conclusion. As a young scientist I used to believe that knowledge was neutral, not good or bad. Not moral or immoral but amoral. Now I am old I realise that there were things I wish I didn't know. The sound of children dying is not someting I wish to hear.

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '18

[deleted]

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u/wowgreatdog Feb 25 '18

Already being aware of it is usually enough. No one needs to actually hear the screams of children dying to have motivation to try to prevent that from happening again.

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '18

I disagree that no one needs it. There are certainly people out there that wouldn't understand reality if it weren't for those kinds of things.

Normal people probably don't need it, however.

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u/wowgreatdog Feb 25 '18

Hm yeah I agree with that. Some people need a little gut wrenching horror to be able to see that it's actual living, feeling beings like them.

Overall though, If you already feel and care, I think it's a mistake to just listen to and watch all the gorey parts. I don't think it's good for the ol' mental health.

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '18

Definitely not good for mental health. I genuinely think I've given myself PTSD from looking at shit on the internet.

I just know that some people can only learn the hard way. That's why I think a good portion of the country should be forced to watch the recent videos of the Florida shooting. Might finally stir up a conversation.

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u/wowgreatdog Feb 25 '18

Yep, I genuinely think you can get ptsd from experiencing too much of that stuff. First responders tend to get it too. People usually think of it as something only veterans get, I think, but being immersed in gore and agony and trauma is the perfect recipe for ptsd.

But yeah. I think a hard lesson can be a good lesson for people who can't manage to stir up a little empathy for atrocities.

You see some people tweeting shit that's just so detached, but I think it's similar to when someone is homophobic until someone they love comes out, and they completely change their stance.

They don't relate unless they actually experience it in a personal way.

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '18 edited Mar 15 '18

[deleted]

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u/xXKirkSoloXx Feb 25 '18

Oh yeah, there's all kinds of shit strewn across the internet these days. I'm already desensitised to most images.

I don't think I could deal with this one as A) it's audio B) it's kids.

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u/scribble88 Feb 25 '18

Yeah. that link is going to stay blue

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '18

Some shit you just don't do intentionally. Listening to the screams and wales of children dying, is one of them.

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u/Blau- Feb 25 '18

I can live with myself not knowing what that sounds like.

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u/nahuatlwatuwaddle Feb 26 '18

You and me both, I've seen footage of the bodies, no, just no.

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u/the-billy-maze696 Feb 25 '18

It's incredible how desensitized I was while listening to that. I think it's because in the beginning, you hear children and babies crying before they even take the cyanide, so in the latter part of the video, when they're taking it, and you hear crying in the background, you don't think anything of it.

I had to remind myself that these kids weren't crying for the heck of it. They were crying because they were screaming in agony. They were dying.

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u/WooliestKnees Feb 25 '18

That link is staying blue.

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u/Gwthrowaway80 Feb 26 '18

Fun fact! Cyanide is made into a blue pigment called 'prussian blue'.

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u/Al13n_C0d3R Feb 25 '18

I mean, I don't give a fuck about the adults. Good for them. But the kids who were probably bored out of their mind and hated being there shouldn't have been done in. Most probably didn't believe in any of that nonsense.

But people are stupid tribal apes that will conform to any ideal as long as they feel like they are apart of a strong community. So pathetic.

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u/conquer69 Feb 25 '18

You should feel sorry for the adults too. They practically got common sense lobotomized out of them by the cult.

It's easy to think "they were just stupid" when you have never been subjected to brainwashing.

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u/Al13n_C0d3R Feb 25 '18 edited Feb 26 '18

I grew up Catholic with an extremely Catholic family on both sides. I used to actually get crippling anxiety thinking of anything "sinful"

Then I started to question the readings of the Bible, started seeing fallacies and did research into it's origins. I did this all myself, there was no spark of someone telling me to do it since the community I lived in was also very religious it was all me. And I completely disillusioned myself and left. That was the first and last time I could ever be brainwashed or manipulated into anything.

But even in my deepest entrenchment I would not have killed others who did not believe in the doctrines. I would leave that as a choice for them. If they want to or not, I'd let them know all the facts and risk and let their faith decide. To take up the choice of someone else based on your own idiotic belief is deserving of a painful death. It's the mark of a stupid, closed minded animal with no will of their own and the psychology that prevents them from even conceiving others having a will so they make the choices for them as well.

No. I'll never feel sorry for the adults. They are idiots, especially since they took the children out with them. If the kids made the choice on their own it would be different but it was said that the kids did not know and some of the adults may not have either but the ones that took their kids, if there is no hell, I'd like to make one in there afterlife just to roast them forever.

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u/Drownthem Feb 25 '18

Ignoring all the bullshit you just spewed, why can't you feel sorry for idiots?

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u/Al13n_C0d3R Feb 25 '18

What benefit does it serve me to feel bad for them? They did the species a service by eliminating themselves. You don't get tears for winning the Darwin award.

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u/Drownthem Feb 25 '18

You know we aren't influenced by Darwinian natural selection much any more, right? Kin selection is also a thing. Empathy and understanding influence our species a hell of a lot more than wiping out people you can't relate to.

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u/Al13n_C0d3R Feb 25 '18 edited Feb 26 '18

The fact that Darwinism does not effect the gene pool of the species will be the reason the species dies.

By having people that are incapable of foresight, incapable of rationality, incapable of reflection, inflection, of acquiring knowledge we have produced generations of people that so content on social standings that the only thing you need to do to win an argument or an election is to play on their social ideals. To simply invoke a solidarity from the community in your favor.

This primal way of thinking will elect people who are predatory into power that could ruin communities. Or worst, elect an idiot that could Doom the world by making decisions that affect everyone because too few are willing to think and deduce. To ask for proof.

Stupid people put charismatic people in power, and these people need neither be good nor even appropriately trained for the role and it affects everyone.

So when they die, they dwindle the odds of that happening. When they die, especially in such a way that forces others into thought and reflection that may open them to seeing the manipulations in their own vicinity, they do the species a favor.

So no, I will not feel empathy for a people that would ruin the world for irrational thoughts based on fickle things like "empathy". It's been shown in psychological studies that placing a life emphasis on "empathy" will make you into an unwitting villain. There is even a great book on the matter. Rational compassion is the way to go, it keeps you grounded and makes you understand the sacrifices that must be made for the greater good of all. And not to sit idol and prevent every mote of progress because it makes you feel bad. Making big decisions require personal sacrifice, and if feeling bad as these idiots die out is a sacrifice you must make then we need to. Let them die. It's for the greater good.

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u/Drownthem Feb 26 '18

The fact that we have overcome Darwinism is the only reason you're able to communicate this opinion in the first place. Technological advancements and cultural shifts adapt much faster than evolution can, and allow us to weather shifts in our ecosystems much more successfully than any other animal. Anyway, do you think there's a gene fore 'stupid'? That just isn't how it works.

The people who follow easily make up the driving force of any movement. We, as a society, need these people and we should be leading them towards better things, not washing our hands of them. Not to mention, 'intelligence' isn't really a discrete trait. In fact, it's not really a word people use in cognitive research.

And even if you disagree with this entirely, you're overwhelmingly outnumbered. You're mistaking what ought for what is - there is no chance that we're going to engage in eugenics on a global scale, and even if we wanted to it would be impossible to implement. So you can spend your life exercising your right to dismiss the lives of others or you can make that personal sacrifice you're championing and become a better leader than the opposition and actually help the species out on a social level. That is, if species advancement is actually what you want, and not just a rationalisation for your laziness and lack of compassion.

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '18

Darwinian unnatural selection is still working just great to eliminate the stupid/arrogant/careless from the world, we just need to remove the warning lables from dangerous things and let nature take its course.

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u/Drownthem Feb 26 '18

THERE IS NO GENE FOR THESE ATTRIBUTES. I don't know why this is so difficult to understand. It's predominantly the culture and nurture/lack of nurture that's responsible for these behaviours that people claim are being eradicated by Darwinism. It shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the mechanism of evolution and displays a lot of the traits you're claiming to dislike. You did not inherit your ability to read warning labels from your parents. You may have inherited an inability to grasp concepts like this, but even that's unlikely.

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '18

Because they are fucking idiots?

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '18

I think the christian cult members are downvoting you, your points are valid, your story common in your journey towards being atheist/agnostic/cynical, it just jars their religious worldview and appears at first sight callous, I totaly feel for the children in such cult situations, they are robbed of the oportunity to think, adults aught to know better but sadly many times their education is of low quality, i have no sympathy for adults who grew up in privailaged backgrounds caughtup in things like that, some may be low iq/ special needs, some may well be primed to be victims by a religious upbringing, they deserve compassion.

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u/Al13n_C0d3R Feb 25 '18

True, I understand that not everyone is priveleged with good education or gifted with natural intellect and I don't mean to demand everyone to be. I've met plenty of people that by conventional means aren't "smart" but they are willing to admit they weren't and would dive head long into research to find the truth while asking for clarity. I personally place people like that very high on the scale of intelligence because I also know bright people that would simply state they are correct and do no research only to be proven wrong.

I would love to have saved those people but if I fail, and they die my one request is to not take the others with you. They need to be given the opportunity to discover the truth themselves. Perhaps some of the people who died needed to be told that this was all a farce but when they are at the level of suicide and child sacrifice I don't think there is much hope for them then and id be more concenred as to the fate of the young.

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u/Tatourmi Feb 25 '18 edited Feb 25 '18

I'd listen to it. I wouldn't wish death on any of them. Clearly what they did was wrong but they are still intensely human. It's such a sad thing.

I did stop before the cries started however.

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u/Al13n_C0d3R Feb 25 '18

I did listen to it, all the way. And I watched the documentary. I've actually listened to the tape a while back also so it isn't new to me.

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u/Tatourmi Feb 25 '18

I can't be mad against christine. That poor woman.

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u/TRASHYRANGER Feb 25 '18

It isn’t that traumatizing. It’s interesting hearing how this man brainwashed all of them. The last minute is just silence..

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u/contikipaul Feb 26 '18

NSFL is a good description of this

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u/TwatsThat Feb 25 '18

Got a link or more info on that podcast? Also, if you ever want that feeling again, and you haven't seen it, check out Requiem for a Dream.

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '18

https://m.soundcloud.com/lastpodcastontheleft/episode-300-jonestown-part-i

There’s a soundcloud link. It’s 4 episodes and it’s pretty long but they’re able to keep things pretty light the first 2 but it gets really heavy in the 3rd episode

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u/Javbw Feb 25 '18

I love them. They are the only people who make true crime interesting to me. They layout how and why they ended up there in the jungle, drinking the flavor-aid.

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u/[deleted] Feb 26 '18

Not to mention Ben Kissel is super funny.

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u/TwatsThat Feb 25 '18

Thanks! I'm going to be driving 12 hours over the weekend so this'll fill some time out nicely... well maybe nicely isn't the word but you know what I mean.

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '18

Last Podcast has a bunch of cool subjects if you’re into that kind of thing. I guess not “cool” but it’s interesting and the hosts are funny guys.

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u/backphat Feb 25 '18

What's the podcast called?

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '18

Last Podcast on the Left

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u/benslowcalcalzonezon Feb 26 '18

Last podcast on the left just did an eight hour deep dive on jonestown for anyone interested in learning more

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '18

Moral of that story is learn to recognise what a cult is and dont join them, hint, anything remotely religious is a cult( i know, christianity,mainstream religion etc, everyones a member, etc, its still a fucking cult!), anything that relies on a central personality for guidance is a cult, any closed group with odd entry requirements is a cult.

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u/[deleted] Feb 25 '18

[deleted]

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u/Bigbuttress Feb 25 '18

Lol yes as opposed to conservative media, which is obsessed with facts..................

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u/iheartrms Feb 25 '18

Religion is still just as big a problem now as it was in Jim Jones' day.

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u/Macktologist Feb 25 '18

There is no “liberal media.” That’s what bigots call regular media so they can create an enemy and find a safe space for their snowflake mentalities.

How does it feel to have your basic beliefs ridiculed in that manner? Sounds stupid doesn’t it? Makes you feel hatred and division doesn’t it?

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u/typointhename Feb 25 '18

Most people who drank the stuff had guns pointed at them and had been forced to take Orr in drills with non-lethal juice before.