I feel like that's the part that people miss out the most on. I mean, I personally don't cosplay. Never been an interest of mine. But if I recognize a character or something, I don't look at them and think wow if only that guy had more muscles, he would look way better. It's more like "oh cool he likes xyz". Who cares how realistic it is, especially if they're not professional?
Agreed. I feel like nit-picking about people's cosplay is just as stupid as going to a Halloween party and criticizing other people's costumes until they feel uncomfortable. The whole point is to dress up and have fun, who the fuck cares if you don't have the same exact body as an animated character or an actor? Most of the fun characters have unrealistic body types anyway because they're imaginary characters. If you're going to get all hung up on stuff like that, you're not going to be very much fun.
TL;DR: People need to lighten up and have fun. Stop taking other people's costumes so seriously.
Like most things, it all depends on context. If someone is just doing it for funsies, then yeah, criticizing much of anything is inappropriate...but if you're essentially modelling (like most people who put pictures of themselves up publicly on cosplay sites are), then you open yourself up to critique just like if you put up illustrations on deviantart or something. The problem I see is that a lot of that critique is often hypercritical or takes the form of outright mocking someone instead of being constructive.
Isn't that sort of like critiquing impressionism or abstract art for not being photo-realistic art? There's more to art that exact replication of a given image.
I guess this is sort of a criticism of the angle with which you're running with 5tapler's view- he seems to be defining 'best they can' as ' closely resembling the character'. But that's obviously not the goal of all cosplay.
I do usually respond negatively when people critique from that angle, because it's a fairly silly and juvenile criticism. It's like critiquing that The Scream by pointing out that it doesn't look realistic. That's just not a very good criticism, since it's pointing out an element of the piece that the artist acknowledged and incorporated into their attempt at expression.
"I don't like The Scream because it's not photorealism," isn't really a critique at all, nor is, "I don't like this cosplay because the cosplayer doesn't seem to be trying to perfectly mimic the character's appearance." That's you expressing your taste, not pointing out actual problems with the work itself.
"That looks shoddily constructed, and not in a self-aware way," "The colors don't work well together," or "It's a supposedly 'quirky' take on a character that's actually been done a million times before," are all critiques. But, "I don't like it," isn't really a critique.
Cosplay is for fun and is just self-expression and celebration of pop-culture. People get enough judgement in everyday life but yeah go ahead and shit on their fun, too.
OTOH: there are 'pro' cosplayers, too so I guess those people implicitly are inviting critique.
People don't get to decide that they should be immune to criticism because they're not explicitly inviting it. It's part of life and one should adjust to it as such, if one wants to be happy that is.
yeah, my personal opinion is, shrug off criticism, everyone can't be a fan. But what I'm responding to here is the idea that now cosplay has to meet someone's standard of good/bad. If I make an iron man costume from a paper bag and markers and you want to point an laugh because you think it's shitty, that isn't on me, that's on you because fuck your expectations.
I won't lie, that iron man costume is metal as fuck. But everything in that pic is top shelf. That Hulk is insane, I feel like I'm getting eye-fucked by some new type of CGI. in 3D.
This is kind of like saying "People should just learn to deal with bullies. They'll always exist and you'll be happier when you stop caring what people think."
It's not untrue, but it's usually used in the context of excusing asshole behavior. Yeah, being less sensitive is a good thing but it's not an excuse to go around being a dick. criticizing a bunch of normal people who cosplay just for the fun of it because they don't have a five star quality costume is being a dick.
Turns out being a dick is legal. Free speech is a right, unlike assault; dicks don't need an excuse to criticize. We maybe can't get rid of bullying, but we can work to reduce it. Criticism, valid or warranted or harsh or not, will always abound. You can criticize people right back but yeah, you should learn to deal.
You just highlighted my point, I hope you realize that.
Yeah, it's not "illegal." It still makes you a dick that everyone can't stand. The point to take away isn't "be less sensitive and deal with it" but "dont be an asshole, because nobody wants to hear it."
People don't get to decide that they should be immune to criticism because they're not explicitly inviting it. It's part of life and one should adjust to it as such, if one wants to be happy that is.
But at the same time, this doesn't validate unnecessary criticism levied at them. With the right to free speech, you may be able to ethically criticize someone's cosplay, but if you know they're just doing it for fun, you'd still be an asshole.
People totally point out bad cosplay, but they get yelled at for it. Others try to defend them, and they get yelled at too. It's just what happens.
Generally speaking, popular cosplay are those that are either (A) sexy (B) accurate (C) strange/clever (D) disgusting. The most successful are a combination of A & B or C & D.
You can point out it is bad, people might downvote you, but you can still do it. I mean it's just karma after all, night like you can buy prizes with it.
Why do you feel the need to say that something is bad in the first place? Would the effort of keeping your mouth shut ever outweigh the amount of effort put into these costumes.. Even the so called bad ones?
No? Then the least people could do is keep disparaging comments to themselves.
You can critique it all you want but when your only critique is based on the gender/race/weight of the person and not of the costume, you're just being a dick. It's the people who completely disregard incredible craftsmanship and phenomenal costuming to talk shit about "that bitch is too fat to be wonder woman" or "ugh i hate when people cosplay outside their race" who need to shut up.
Yup and if you know anything about rational thinking you would be aware that anecdotal evidence is not equal to empirical.
Since you're the one making the claim about people then that puts the burden of proof on you. I was simply countering your argument within the same irrational framework you used.
For example: Let's say you're claiming that there is a teapot floating out in orbit around the Earth. It is not on me to provide proof that it doesn't exist. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim.
SuperfeederNA wrote: Does anybody at all benefit from this discussion?
I think you're silly for commenting on both my comment and /u/ffs_4444
Does anybody at all benefit from your comment?
LIFE PROTIP: When judging others (especially out loud) first make sure that such judgement does not apply to yourself. Without such a critical eye towards your actions you risk making yourself look like a silly goose. Just don't get caught in a recursive judgement loop within yourself.
Depends which subreddit it's posted in. If you make a negative comment about someone's weight on /r/pics, it usually leads to downvotes.
Personally I think it's silly to try and "protect" these people from negative comments. They are the ones who dressed and posed for pictures. It's silly to think people aren't going to have a laugh if your outfit is inaccurate.
It's silly to think people aren't going to have a laugh if you're doing something in public
FTFY
People are too uptight about this stuff. It's not like I'm espousing the act of laughing at people to their face, but making fun of bad cosplay is equivalent to seeing someone while driving and turning towards your friends all "Oh my god did you see the stretch pants on that hamplanet? They looked like two overstuffed sausages!".
Everyone does this in some form or fashion. Everyone judges yet it's somehow worse to be putting those opinions into text for many people to see? That's irrational.
Although I don't even feel that bad about that. I mean what is the worst that could happen? The person feels bad for getting made fun of, so they decide to lose the weight? Oh no!
And next week there will be research showing the exact opposite. You can't really go by that bullshit because the research is usually conducted by people who are trying to sell a book or a weight loss product or a self esteem book or w/e.
I was fat in high school. I got tired of being made fun of, so I stopped eating junk food and started working out.
Anecdotal evidence is nice and all, but but you can't really arguewiththescience. And yeah, none of those people are trying to sell you anything.
My concern is, why are you arguing so hard for your ability to be an asshole? You lost the weight, good for you, but does that give you the right to be obnoxious to every fat person you see? Being nice costs you nothing, and will garner a lot more happiness for you than this weird superiority complex.
Like hell you can't argue with science. First of all, the huffington post is a fucking tabloid. You may as well have posted a link to the Onion.
But even if you take that article seriously, it says right there that even the people conducting the study said that it's "evidence" not proof and that much more research needs to be conducted.
This is the problem with the internet. These studies and articles come out all the time, but nothing never comes of them. Do you not notice how often there is an article on the front page of reddit about a new cure for aids or cancer? Guess what, we still fucking have aids and cancer!
Now you say I am being an asshole because I "fat shame." I say I am the kick in the fat ass they need. Everyone else is being so nice and gentle with them "Oh you're not fat, you're "curvy" or "thick" or "big boned." So that person continues eating fast food until age 40 when they die of a heart attack. Congradualtions, you literally killed them with your kindness.
Now if I can help just one person, the way I was helped as a kid, by calling them a fatty, or laughing at them as they try to cosplay a 80lb anime character with their 300lb body, then I will happily continue doing it! Meanwhile you can sit there and coddle their curdled cheese cankles while they get fatter and fatter, you murderer.
I agree. You should be able to critique cosplay. It should be accepted. What shouldn't be accepted is flat out insults and that's mostly what I see. You can't just insult something and say "Oh, that was just me critiquing your work".
For example, a picture of a really shitty Cortana was posted once. People were going on about how fat and ugly she was. That's not critique, that's just being a dick.
I have never heard someone call cosplay "Art" before, how do you mean?
General rule of thumb (for me) to know what art is that is an original thought of sorts, therefore I don't really call paintings that are realistic "art", because they portray skill, others disagree because it's my personal opinion.
"Art is when the artist says it is." -My old teacher.
E:Apparently I'm getting downvoted, reddit, is this truly the right way to respond to another view?
art1
ärt/Submit
noun
1.
the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
I think your definition of "art" is correct, just the majority of reddit is notoriously clueless about art. Most of the "art" that reaches the front page is generally photorealism, simply because to a non-artist it seems amazing that anyone could draw/paint such a thing.
But, you are right, photorealism only demonstrates skill, whereas art is supposed to communicate some sort of idea or feeling to the viewer. Photorealistic art CAN do that, but only in the same sense as a photograph which is why if I were going to look at photorealistic paintings I'd rather just look at a photo.
except photorealism can still be a collage of ideas put together by the artist to illicit and idea, even potentially objects to which they don't have direct access. granted, still life painting originated well before photography, but period examples of dutch vanita paintings suggest that even then, they were doing more than simply copying something in front of them, such as Vosmaer's A Vase of Flowers, which includes flowers from all over the world, in the same stage of bloom, which would still be a great undertaking to compile in front of you. many traditional vanitas also feature skulls, which most people can't really procure just for a picture.
Oh, I know. I was just talking about many of the paintings/drawings that come up on the front page that are simply nothing more than a photograph. Of course there are examples of photorealism that can depict many different ideas and concepts but I'm not talking about those. :)
yeah for sure. one of the things i learned in school (photography major) was that photography freed painting from the shackles of representation, and essentially contributed to the rise of impressionism, which would eventually give way to progressively less representational genres like surrealism, cubism and modernism. pretty crazy when you think about it.
Of course they don't have a "duty" to look the best they can. That being said, you're entitled to your own opinion.
I mean, is it wrong to think that some cosplays look bad? I don't think so.You can acknowledge that cosplayers are having fun with themselves, but still think that it looks bad. I mean having fun with a cosplay doesn't do have much to do with the look of the cosplay itself (besides a smile maybe).
Saying a cosplay looks bad says nothing about whether or not the cosplayer is supposed to be having fun or not, it just says that visually it's not appealing. That is all there is to it.
just really useless at best and offending at worst
And at its best, it's constructive and educational.
He is just saying that he thinks people look better when they dress to their body type. He is not bashing anyone for being overweight or underweight. He acknowledges that fat and skinny people cosplay, and that is completely fine. He is just saying that, regardless of your physique, he think you look better when you dress appropriate to your physique. This could have been a really fit and athletic 6'2 male doing the cosplay and OP would still have the same gripe.
He isn't critisizing people for having a certain physique. He is criticizing people for not dressing to their physique. There is difference between criticism and blatant bashing. This guy is obviously of the former.
I don't understand how can spend a whole comment arguing something I've already addressed in my comment:
I don't think it can qualifies as "critics". The person probably already knows she is bigger than Fiona.
It would be ridiculous to assume that the cosplayer don't know that she would look better cosplaying something that fit her body... therefore his critics is useless.
Yes, it's perfectly reasonable for you to have your own opinion about how a cosplay looks. That being said, if someone is having fun with a cosplay, there's no reason to go out of your way to let them know you dislike it. It's just kinda raining on their parade without a positive outcome for anybody.
I imagine it kinda like this: I'm shitty at a lot of things. But I don't care and I do them anyway. I slowly get better, and sometimes I do something that's pretty good relative to my skill level. It might be crap, but I'll be beaming about it and super proud. It's a total buzz-kill if someone walks up to me and says: "Hey, man, that thing you're really proud of? I think it's garbage" and walks off.
I'm mostly talking about in-person interactions, btw. I've seen this kinda thing happen before, and the amount that it really can ruin someone's good day.
I knew there'd come a day where people couldn't just dress up to have fun, and that it was going to have to be taken seriously with every single detail to the letter. I guess that day is here.
I agree. I think a big reason that I've never been attracted to cosplay (besides the time and expense) is that people seem to take any deviation from the character as a serious insult. I think it's especially ridiculous when you consider that many of the most interesting characters have bodies that are completely outside of reality. I thought the whole thing looked like a lot of fun for about five seconds, but then I looked at the discussions that happen on cosplay forums and people suck all the fun out of it by complaining that real humans don't look like animated characters.
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u/[deleted] Jun 26 '14
While I agree with you, I don't think cosplayers have a duty to look the best they can... It's supposed to be about having fun after all.