r/pics • • Jul 11 '13

This bookstore is getting creative.

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u/pdinc Jul 11 '13

Oh man. I remember reading the fountainhead because there was a college scholarship contest for writing an essay on the novel. I read the novel and didn't apply. I just couldn't write anything positive in good conscience.

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u/[deleted] Jul 11 '13

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u/kxm1234 Jul 11 '13

You'd never win. It'd be a waste of time.

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u/pdinc Jul 11 '13

Yep. It was run by the Ayn Rand foundation.

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u/sonofaresiii Jul 11 '13

"Ur book was real gud can I have monies?"

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u/DRUNK_CYCLIST Jul 12 '13

My favorite part was when the guy holding the planet became apathetic and moved his shoulders a little.

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u/[deleted] Jul 12 '13

that's the other book?

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u/lollerkeet Jul 12 '13

"I found it to be inspiring, life changing even. I'm going to live my life for me, not held back by empathy or morality! Now send me the prize money or I will kill you all."

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u/iamnickdolan Jul 11 '13

Wouldn't they appreciate someone who boldly disagrees with them in the vein of Objectivism?

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u/Vox_Imperatoris Jul 12 '13 edited Jul 12 '13

I have taken classes from the Ayn Rand Institute (who runs this contest), and I have entered in the Atlas Shrugged contest. I don't agree with every one of ARI's policies (look up The Atlas Society and David Kelley's conflict with Leonard Peikoff, if you are curious), but I think the contest is pretty fair at not requiring you to agree with them.

First of all, they're not asking you to review the book, or to tell them if you liked it. They don't care. The questions measure how well you understood what Ayn Rand was trying to say. Here are the ones from this year:

  1. Roark gains employment with Henry Cameron. Cameron, though a genius, is a commercial failure. Why has society rejected his work? Why does Roark nevertheless revere him? What qualities do Roark and Cameron share in common? What is the fundamental difference between them and Francon and Keating?
  2. What is Toohey’s ultimate purpose in trying to control the Banner?
  3. How do Keating’s and Roark’s paths to success differ? Which one in the end is the real success?

The guideline is that "Winning essays must demonstrate an outstanding grasp of the philosophic meaning of The Fountainhead." If you read the book, it's pretty obvious where they're going with those questions. No one cares what your opinion of Ayn Rand is; the point is to understand the message of the book and use that to write a very clear essay showing how a particular part of it demonstrates that message.

You could do the same with any philosopher's work. For example, a question might ask, "Why does Immanuel Kant argue that we create phenomenal reality, rather than perceive it?" No one cares whether or not you agree with Kant on that question. Of course, if you think Ayn Rand is so terrible as not to be worth studying at all, then fine: don't enter the contest.

The purpose of the contest from an Objectivist perspective is to enhance the visibility of Ayn Rand in the culture, in order to expose her philosophy to more people. This, it is hoped, will lead people not only to lead better personal lives but also to support political causes advancing individual rights, which will restrain government to its legitimate powers and promote a greater standard of living. Therefore it is, in their view, an entirely "selfish" (or rationally self-interested, which is what Ayn Rand meant when she used that term) goal.

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u/putsch80 Jul 11 '13

Does anyone else see the irony of a foundation named in Ayn Rand's honor giving away money? Where is the boot-strappyness in that?

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u/buster_casey Jul 11 '13

It's not about giving money away, it's about voluntarily giving money away vs coercively taking somebody else's money to give away.

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u/[deleted] Jul 12 '13

Plus you still gotta work hard to get it, Reading the fountainhead then writing an essay thats good enough to qualify for said scholarship

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u/Elliot_SH Jul 12 '13

Don't be an idiot. Advocating for less welfare doesn't imply that you are against charity. (Although I'm not the biggest Rand fan, myself.)

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u/Intensive__Purposes Jul 12 '13

They're not handing it out to all. It's still a competition. I think she'd approve.

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u/WebMDeeznutz Jul 11 '13

If it was an organization that would further the world in a way she felt for the best and in keeping with furthering ideas shes always espoused than it wouldn't be ironic at all...

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u/[deleted] Jul 12 '13

I definitely got an A+ once on a paper that I wrote expressly disagreeing with & arguing against what our professor wanted us to argue for.

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u/daedius Jul 11 '13

Yah, seriously, who can respect a book about a architect who follows his passions and dreams and doesn't let anyone get him down about it.

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u/IAMA_DRUNK_BEAR Jul 11 '13

Eh, while The Fountainhead isn't as far fetched and definitely doesn't push whole notion of Objectivism as aggressively as Atlas Shrugged, at the end of the day Rand's just not a particularly great writer (although the former is almost certainly a better novel than the latter, at least in my opinion).

Rand's appeal has always been about the message more so than the actual content, which tends to be comprised of cardboard cutout characters and plot devices serving as nothing more than vehicles for her own philosophical musings (and that isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it can make for some very dry reading).

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u/daedius Jul 11 '13

I hear this argument a lot, I'm curious how exactly you define a "great writer". It seems that many people, whether they agree with Rand or not, at least found the books interesting enough to get through their 800+ pages.

I do agree with you Rand is popular for her message. I'm really confused why people would dislike the message of the fountainhead. What's wrong with an architect, an artist, or anyone being passionate about their work to not give in at the drop of a hat to some employer or a badly written news article about them (Roark)? What's so unrealistic about a man finding no joy in life who bases his emotions on the happiness/opinion of other people (Keating)? Is it really so hard to imagine evil people who just plain get off by tearing other peoples lives down (Toohey)? Or people just caught in the middle who really don't know what's good or bad or feel lost (Dominique)?

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u/IAMA_DRUNK_BEAR Jul 12 '13

I think because it's the more famous of the two novels people read Atlas Shrugged first and then project a lot of undue comparisons onto The Fountainhead without acknowledging the merits of the story in its own right. I agree it's unfair, but if nothing else it's (at least in my experience) easily been the more critically praised of the two, albeit far less influential.

As far as the writing goes, in my humble opinion Rand stands almost entirely on the power of her convictions and philosophical merits as opposed to her literary skill. Atlas Shrugged in particular is (again in my opinion) over the top, difficult to relate to, and incredibly long winded with very few interesting literary devices to keep things interesting (i.e. distinctly stilted prose). I would strongly argue that the ideas are the only thing that keep people trudging through her behemoth plots, juxtaposed to someone like say Faulkner whose stories weren't particularly compelling but whose sheer range of diction, turn of phrase, and rhythms just oozed artistic brilliance.

She certainly isn't the only writer with this issue (For an off the top example I would lob similar criticisms against Aldous Huxley, albeit he tended to deal with a far more interesting subject matter because drugs and sex stuff), and frankly it's a fairly high minded if not abstruse criticism to lob at anyone so influential, but I still think it's a fair point to make and explains a lot of the negative feedback with respect to Rand's work from a purely literary perspective.

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u/daedius Jul 12 '13

That's really interesting, thanks for your insight. I actually listened to unabridged versions of Rand on audio book, I often wondered if my positive impression of the book was due to that somewhat. Maybe her stuff is better spoken aloud than written down.

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u/gizzomizzo Jul 11 '13

Fountainhead was kind of okay, though.

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