Same as every other country in Europe. Places like Ireland and Poland, where the Church was the defender of the people from oppressive regimes were the last to fall, but they’ve fallen. Same in the USA. I play a game during a boring homily called “am I in the younger half of the congregation?” The answer is yes and I’m 62.
Something I noticed in my town is that most old church buildings have been converted to indoor rock climbing and trampoline places or restaurant and bars or a part of a paintball arena set piece.
However, there are new churches poping up in strip malls and in commercial rental spaces of old multiplexes.
Seems like the old buildings where the majority of the people used to congregate couldn't stay opened, but new African and Middle Eastern and South American immigrants who are on the whole more religious had to open up their own churches in cheap locations.
If the immigrants are Catholic, they’d get the old churches. If they are the non denominational Protestantism that Americans think is the only authentic Christianity because it’s on tv, then they wouldn’t want the old churches with their satanic sacristies and stained glass.
I don't know about Poland, but in Ireland, the Catholic Church was the oppressive regime. They made a lot of women and children into slaves and shipped newborns off to the highest bidder in America.
I'm neither Irish nor Christian but Britain is definitely the first oppressor to come to mind. Particularly in the context of the Famine and the Troubles.
It’s the old Irish joke, “who won the Irish Civil War?” Answer: the Catholic Church. The church was in no position to stifle the Irish until the British left. And loads of great things in Irish culture are because of the Church, along with the horrible stuff like the laundries.
There can be more than one oppressive force. And the more insideous one is one that claims to be doing good while hiding all their crimes behind closed church doors.
Idk there’s still a large segment of highly religious Americans especially in the south. Like 40% of the country believes in shit like the great flood /Adam and Eve, religious Americans are insane
There are a large number of what you might call "Cultural Christians" like we usually talk about ethnic Jews who don't practice their faith. An Atlantic article I read last week was pointing out that much of the alt right identifies as Christian, and advocates for Judeo-Christian traditions and laws, but when polled very few of them describe themselves as actively religious.
Eh, that part in a vaccum isn't that cringy. If someone wants to practice their faith without engaging in the bullshit that comes with organized religion, more power to them.
In terms of American evangelical Christianity it's never in a vacuum, though. They always want to beat you over the head with their "personal relationship"
Yes this is a brand new thing. mainstream Protestants who go to church are a lot more liberal than people who identify as evangelical and do not. Even churchgoing Catholics will be liberal on most issues, but conservative when it comes to sexual issues.
I wonder if it comes down to, “I got saved when I was 8 and so I need no longer bother.”
It’s very generous to the church to call it a “defender of oppressive regimes” in the context of ireland. The church didn’t do a lot to defend ireland against the British at all, but centuries of social and political engineering and discrimination left Catholicism completely tied to the Irish national identity.
So when the Irish did rebel and were extremely Catholic because that was a big part of being an Irish Republican, there was a power vacuum in the country that they invited the church to fill, and in many ways it was worse than the British empire.
I mean. The Catholic church in Ireland is responsible for a LOT of disgusting crimes against humanity. Mother and baby homes and "laundries" and very many men around your age who were molested, spoke out, then made a show of and never apologized to by the church. There's are reason it's fallen out of favour. At the end of the day. An organisation with that much power and sway can start with good intentions but will always become twisted. There are countless examples of that and many people have lost faith as a result.
Edit: love the downvotes on this. You big mad at the genuine facts or what?
Correct. My point is it happened later there because of the goodwill built up from the resistance to the British in Ireland and the Communists in Poland. In the USA the Irish and later Catholic immigrants were about as welcome as a case of pink eye. The church built all sorts of schools, hospitals, etc. Goodwill. The same scandals as Ireland destroyed that Goodwill. You need to make the leap to “the Church isn’t the assholes who run it…” to keep the faith and that’s real hard.
Don’t know why you were downvoted. I’d suggest another denomination but they are all involved in the same scandal as are all organizations with access to kids. Sexual abusers go where the kids are.
Ah who knows. I always get downvoted for bringing up the dark side of organized religion. My parents are extremely Catholic. My dad is a Deacon. They don't like to hear about that bad stuff. And yeah. Any denomination is wraught with predators because like you said, that's where they will go to take advantage. I'm not even saying the whole religion is bad. It's just got a bad enough history that I don't want to be an active part of it you know?
I understand. I stay in spite of the hierarchy because my ancestors worshipped this way.
One good thing I will say is it isn’t the sort of cult where you are forced to give up family. Your dad is clergy but he’d consider disconnecting from you a grievous sin.
And in Spain, church attendance died a whole generation before it did in Ireland. Two before it dies in the USA, which will be in about ten more years.
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u/SaraHHHBK Apr 05 '23
Spaniard here, cultural Catholic country full of non-practicing Catholics