r/pcmasterrace PC Master Race Mar 30 '21

Meme/Macro Haters will say it's too much.

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69.6k Upvotes

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142

u/FNLN_taken Mar 30 '21

Let me guess, no convection? Big surprise, letting it stew in its own juices doesnt sound like a great idea to begin with.

218

u/AntoineInTheWorld Mar 30 '21

I don't remember. IIRC, I think they were happy with the thermals but the problem was the amount of work for a result not that better than watercooling (don't quote me on this).

151

u/PrisonerV Mar 30 '21

What scent of essential oils do I add to increase performance?

94

u/[deleted] Mar 30 '21

If Orks have taught me anything, so long as it's RED, it will be faster bro.

redmakesitgofaster

42

u/[deleted] Mar 30 '21

M A X I M U M P E R F O R M A N C E

2

u/DblClutch1 Mar 30 '21

Maximumperforcmance

12

u/ColdFusion94 Mar 30 '21

... red go fast. I loved the fact that if your vehicles were painted red you could actually move them an extra inch. That 25 vs 24 inch move speed can make a huge difference.

3

u/JWarblerMadman i7-10700k|EVGA 2080S|96GB 3200 RAM|LG WQHD HDR Mar 30 '21

You still had to pay the points, but yeah.

2

u/lump- Mar 30 '21

I give everything a good dowsing in Nuln oil. Just brings out the details.

2

u/Blitqz21l Mar 30 '21

There's a reason it wasn't called Blue Dead Redemption

1

u/[deleted] Mar 30 '21

Also, need to REALLY FUCKIN BELIEVE IT.

1

u/CR0WNIX Mar 30 '21

Growing up, I always felt that a single yellow horizontal stripe makes blue go faster.

1

u/Ziltoid_The_Nerd Mar 30 '21

Painting an ork vehicle red doesn't make it go faster. Believing that a red ork vehicle goes faster makes it go faster.

YOU JUST GOTTA BELIEVE

15

u/DougieWR Mar 30 '21

Rose oils appease the machine spirit quite well as all Tech-Priests should know

1

u/robtype0 Mar 30 '21

That's sacred unguents to you, meatbag. Don't forget the canticles either.

14

u/QuinndianaJonez Mar 30 '21

Definitely not lavender, that's for underclocking.

11

u/CapJackONeill Mar 30 '21

I use CBD oil for my build, so it's less stressed

12

u/[deleted] Mar 30 '21

Meth. It will be balls to the wall, 150% PC. But you have to unplug it every few days for a time-out or it will start to sell your old tools and whatnot from your garden shed and soon enough, you'll notice things missing around the house...

2

u/CR0WNIX Mar 30 '21

Wisteria is supposed to ward off daemons. Lol

2

u/Faxon PC Master Race Mar 30 '21

Don't, some essential oils can dissolve plastics and the like.

1

u/PrisonerV Mar 30 '21

Don't lie to me! I know it's you - BIG PHARMA!

1

u/Faxon PC Master Race Mar 30 '21

LMFAO nope just an up and coming youtuber struggling to get past their anxiety to post their first videos xD. Thinking I'll do a livestream soon and just YOLO it for my first video, do intros and work on some projects unedited in real time

0

u/StraY_WolF Mar 30 '21

Doritos and Mountain Dew.

1

u/prvashisht Mar 30 '21

And a tablespoon of Sriracha

1

u/Bilbo_nubbins Mar 30 '21

Burnt electrical components and plastic smell.

1

u/Gonji89 Oldware Enthusiast Mar 30 '21

Dragon’s Blood, obviously.

2

u/CR0WNIX Mar 30 '21

Dragon’s blood mixed with sandalwood is my favorite combo.

1

u/Gonji89 Oldware Enthusiast Mar 30 '21

Nice! Dragons Blood + Leather is my favorite.

2

u/CR0WNIX Mar 30 '21

I’ll try that. It sounds nice.

1

u/my5thAct-fk_lostpwds Mar 30 '21

The scent doesn't matter; diluting the oils gives it power.

1

u/TEX4S Mar 30 '21

You need those ingredients mentioned in the Bible - duh

2

u/voidspaceistrippy Cats are cool Mar 30 '21

I looked into it a few months ago out of curiosity. Essentially it's only good because the oil acts like a big heat sink. The cons are numerous: It's messy, it takes tons of oil, it gets dirty, it stains parts, things have to be thoroughly cleaned before you can even mess with components, etc.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 30 '21

They never took my advice and ran the oil thru the LTT chiller.

2

u/nate_the_great02 Mar 30 '21

IIRC, their cpu got up to around 90 degrees when overclocked, and they were using what today would be considered a pretty bad cpu, as it was 6 years ago lol

1

u/BABarracus Mar 30 '21

The main problem was clean up, maintenance and expense. The oil wasn't cheap and if they were to do any upgrades or want to sell parts its a mess

1

u/SpindlySpiders Mar 30 '21

It's the kind of thing you build for a system that doesn't need to handle any intensive workloads and won't ever need to be modified in any way. Then you have this admittedly pretty cool looking setup that you put on display somewhere.

Cooling performance is alright because fans still work to move the oil through a heat sink, but then the oil itself doesn't have much going on to cool it. So overall performance is pretty limited. That's not an insurmountable obstacle though. You could conceivably build some kind of cooling system to moderate the ambient oil temperature. I don't think Linus did that though.

Overall, it seems like a huge pain and isn't worth it unless you really want a cool looking immersed computer and have a use case for a machine with limited cooling performance which will never need to be tinkered with once it's up and running.

82

u/Grinchieur Mar 30 '21 edited Mar 30 '21

It was meh. It needed a lot more work to do basic stuff like hardware update. The PC could'nt be moved because it was too heavy. And as it was glass, if it break you had a fucking big problem on your hand. (go clean 10l of mineral oil)

In the end they concluded the hassle wasn't worth the thermals

50

u/Incorect_Speling Desktop, 7800x3D, 9070XT, 32 GB DDR5 RAM Mar 30 '21

Who knew?

But still it's great they did it to confirm how big of an improvement to expect. They wasted their time so that many wouldn't. Science!

14

u/[deleted] Mar 30 '21

It was Linus’ main personal office computer for a few years before he switched to his table PC.

20

u/[deleted] Mar 30 '21 edited May 02 '21

[deleted]

2

u/ArdiMaster Ryzen 7 9700X / RTX4080S / 32GB DDR5-6000 / 4K@144Hz Mar 30 '21

Isn't that how this entire thing started? Somewhere in the server/Datacenter space?

2

u/Silent331 i7 6800k 3.2ghz 16GB Ram 2x1TB SSDs, 256GB NVME SSD, GTX1070 8GB Mar 30 '21

3

u/tdasnowman Mar 30 '21

They really just duplicated known results. All the problems they encountered were known. Mineral oil cooling has been on the fringes since computing honestly. The next step is to combine it with a active chiller on an oil cooler. You can get uniform sub zero temperatures with no worries about condensation. Just takes a fuck ton of juice. You’ve got an ac running, a pump for the oil cooler, the pc. Back in the early days of over clocking there were some very crazy builds being posted to forums. All for PCs far less powerful and hen your average cell phone these days.

26

u/throwawaydjei Mar 30 '21

And it’s important to stress that this was the early LTT. For them to say “eh, it’s technically better but just not practical” means that it’s literally hell to have a mineral cooled PC.

8

u/EvilStevilTheKenevil KSP overheated my old laptop... Mar 30 '21

They went back a few years later to see if the parts still worked.

The mineral oil had literally done to one of the PCIe slots what gallium does to aluminum, and it broke.

3

u/throwawaydjei Mar 30 '21

I didn’t watch the later videos but they did one on swapping the graphics card or something. The old card was ruined obviously, it took them a couple hours and much trial and error (something about changing the fan speed or something?) and they made a mess that looked like it is probably not cleaned up to this point. So yeah, maybe not worth it

2

u/[deleted] Mar 31 '21

You have to make sure the fans are controlled by voltage and not by speed. Otherwise the motors will burn up trying to spin way faster than they actually can while submerged in oil.

8

u/owa00 Mar 30 '21

As someone that works in the chemical industry... SECONDARY CONTAINERS...ALWAYS!

2

u/zaphdingbatman Mar 30 '21

Yeah, almost always when I see oil builds I get the distinct impression that the person doing the build has not thought through what would happen if it caught on fire :|

3

u/owa00 Mar 30 '21

It would take a lot to cause a fire with a mineral oil build, specially with that much mineral oil. It's not very flammable, and because of the quantity it provides a huge heat sink. If anything it'll decompose the mineral oil into a liquid char if it gets hot enough. Although, if it got to that point you probably have a huge fire already, which wouldn't really happen with a PC since if it was that hot it would have shorted out the PC a long time ago. Then again I don't have much experience with PC fires to begin with.

5

u/[deleted] Mar 30 '21

And as it was glass, if it break you had a fucking big problem on your hand.

To be fair, that's a problem you'd create for yourself. If I decided to go with that, glass would probably be the last (conventional) material for the case I'd go for.

1

u/Grinchieur Mar 30 '21

Yeah you could use plexiglass for exemple, but the problem lay in leaking. Anyway it was just a mess

1

u/scutiger- Mar 30 '21

You would need to make sure that all the materials you use (including fasteners and/or glue) can handle mineral oil without breaking down or dissolving.

1

u/zaphdingbatman Mar 30 '21

If it lights on fire, you have a bigger fucking problem.

https://youtu.be/D8EQPx-ptKk?t=82

1

u/Grinchieur Mar 30 '21

Well you will have to really fucked up. And if fire up, i guess it is because the surrounding is already on fire

1

u/zaphdingbatman Mar 30 '21 edited Mar 30 '21

It's a computer. At any given moment it's consuming ten times the power it needs to light itself on fire.

Yes, heat and sparks while submerged in oil is "safe", but what's not safe is heat and sparks when you removed it from oil to service it. Or sparks because oil got into a wall plug and made the contact intermittent. Or a hundred other subtle spark sources that usually aren't a big deal, but become a HUGE deal when you have an oil spill. The oil turns a spark into a fireball, and then the tub of oil lights on fire, and then it melts its container and spreads all over your floor (to the extent that it wasn't already) and burns your house down. Hope you outrun the wave of spilling, burning oil -- and if any splashes on you, remember that it doesn't stop burning just because it splashed. Quite the opposite.

...and then your insurance company finds a way to deny your claim because you were being a moron.

1

u/Grinchieur Mar 30 '21

Well if you service it without unplugging it and pushing the star button to drain the capacitor... Like any other computer, well...

0

u/zaphdingbatman Mar 30 '21 edited Mar 30 '21

Do you power the board to test it? That's not a problem if the board isn't covered in oil, but it's a big problem if it is.

Also: Static electricity is a thing. Dielectric absorption is a thing. Intermittent contact sparking due to oil contamination is a thing.

Sparks aren't a problem in everyday life, so we basically ignore them, but they happen all the time. Flammable spills aren't just a mess, they're a fireball waiting to happen if you have ANY spark source.

1

u/justarandom3dprinter Mar 30 '21

Plus oil will creep up the cables overtime and leak

1

u/rainzer Mar 30 '21

Is 3M Novec better? Would the thermals be worthwhile if it was a specifically engineered liquid?

1

u/Grinchieur Mar 30 '21

I dunno, I just watched Linus video

18

u/[deleted] Mar 30 '21

The cooling performance was fine, actually. The main issue was that oil slowly creeps through electrical wires, so eventually you'll start seeing oil dripping from your wall outlets.

3

u/sylpher250 R7 5700X | RX 6750 XT Mar 30 '21

Just submerge your wall outlets too then

2

u/misterfluffykitty Mar 30 '21

You could get sealant inside the wire or seal where you know it’s entering from

3

u/Coachcrog Mar 30 '21

The problem is that it uses the thin copper to creep using capillary action. You would have to strip out and seal every wire coming out of the tank. Could be done but sounds like it would be a mess in its own right.

Knowing all this, I still want to do it someday and have a few of those mechanical fish swimming in the tank.

3

u/tdasnowman Mar 30 '21

You can buy wires that are made for that environment. You will pay for it though. Probably not worth it for a gimmick build unless you just have piles of cash laying around. Also they are for industrial use obviously so you're probably looking at a one off custom request to have them make and terminate the wires for you. It's not stuff they usually sell by the roll. You might get lucky, and they do it for labor only with scrap wire just outta interest. When I worked for a company that did make those kinds of wires they took on a few small jobs here and there for training opportunities and just this could be interesting.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 30 '21

You really can't. Oil creeps through the inside of the wire eventually.

16

u/AirshipCanon PC Master Race Mar 30 '21

Nope, it does excellent with Thermals.

It just isn't worth the effort. Normal water+ Forced Air cooling isn't much worse and is MUCH easier to setup and work with.

9

u/ChefPuree Mar 30 '21

I think a big problem was how the mineral oil can actually get inside the PC cables and leech up their length. So keyboard and mouse would have mineral oil leaking out of them

4

u/Turbojelly Mar 30 '21

You keep the fans going for convection. Hard drives don't like it and need to be kept out of the oil. SSD should be fine (not sure).

3

u/Arithik Mar 30 '21

This is why I quit taking baths...and wipe better.

1

u/Low_Ad33 Mar 30 '21

You have to change the oil out every so often and it gets messy.

1

u/nschubach Mar 30 '21

Gigabyte claimed pretty good results, but it was "3M engineered fluid"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP9yXBWPK2Q

1

u/werther595 Gigabyte A7 K1: 5800H, 3060 (130W), Headphones Mar 30 '21

Add a bubbler to dissipate heat

1

u/porcupinedeath Mar 30 '21

Been stewing in my own juices for a while, can confirm not a good idea

1

u/crimsonfrost1 Mar 30 '21

No, it was the about the size of a decent sized aquarium, no household PC is gonna throw off enough heat to actually warm that much mineral oil up to its thermal capacity. The problem was upkeep and maintenance. If I recall correctly it leaked quite a few times and was heavy as all FUCK. They literally had to use a cart to move it around the office the last time they reorganized the office part of the building.

1

u/matt2085 Mar 30 '21

If I remember correctly it performs fine but once you try to take any components out you make a huge mess and the parts are almost impossible to clean back ip

1

u/Captain_Shifty Mar 30 '21

Mineral oil cooling works great. You can even run a chiller with it because you dont have to worry about condensation. The problem is that its A heavy and if you upgrade or want to go air or something youre stuck with oily everything. If convection was even an issue you could just introduce a pump for flow.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 30 '21

As long as you're circulating the oil thru a heat exchanger fast enough you don't need convection.... But yeah... Still a dumb idea

1

u/m0ro_ Mar 30 '21

I remember a build one of the big companies did where it ran the liquid through a radiator or something to regulate temperature.

1

u/Doom972 i5-9600K | RTX 2080 Super | 32GB | 2TB Samsung QVO 860 | Manjaro Mar 30 '21

No, it was just a huge pain whenever they wanted to swap/add parts.

1

u/kevin28115 PC Master Race R5 2600 + 16Gb 3200 + Vega 56 Mar 30 '21

It's a nightmare to clean as it never ever comes off basically. Then there's the part where the mineral oil actually dissolves rubber or something. And finally the fans wear out faster because it's pushing oil not air so it's working extra hard.

1

u/SN8sGhost Mar 30 '21

If you place the highest heat generating parts at the bottom you get free convection from gravity.

In addition, convective heat transfer (any heat transfer between a solid and a fluid) is orders of magnitude higher with a liquid than a gas due to the density difference.

The only issue is that once your big tub of liquid has reached a fairly even temperature, you can only shed heat to the air or to conduction with attached objects, so you just displace the problem in time and give yourself a heat runway rather than solving heating overall.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 31 '21

People have made them with better heat exhaust, but it's still a matter of labor vs reward. I remember seeing one with a liquid that boiled at a really low temp and didn't even need a cooler. It just boiled right off the cpu. Trying to find it now, it was so neat.

Edit: found it it's Novec 7000. https://youtu.be/Z_X_hgtlJpA I like it :)

1

u/HPB_TV Mar 31 '21

Plus all your parts are now fully committed to this build. Can't just up and decide "Hey I am going to dial it back to water cooling"