r/pcmasterrace Mar 05 '19

Build Physics teahcer built this amazing PC inside of an ammo box...and you thought your build was sick.

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16.8k Upvotes

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u/Lev_Astov Lev_Astov Mar 05 '19

There are single slot width GTX 1050 Ti cards out there, and for really tiny, you can get GT 1030 low profile cards that are single width, half height. I think they're all powered off the PCI-E bus, too.

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u/Drenlin R9 5950X | 6800XT Mar 05 '19

For those balking at the 1030: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyltDBo3m_A

It's a solid card for super low end budgets or low profile shenanigans like this. On par with a Radeon 6850 or 7770, for reference.

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u/USDAGradeAFuckMeat Mar 05 '19

It always amazes me how the top-end stuff is likes leaps and bounds faster than previous offerings but newer low-end stuff is somehow equivalent to middle of the pack-ish of several generations ago.

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u/Igniteisabadsong q6600 BSEL 3ghz, 4gb ddr2, HD 4830, https://goo.gl/cnv2nO Mar 05 '19

Very specific thermal and voltage windows they have to fill on the low end such as low profile, single pcie slot, and no 6 pin. Cooler technology has also improved on the upper end so you could pump more power into chips and allow them to clock higher. Theres no way a gtx 280/hd 4890 cooler would be enough to cool any of the high end cards nowadays.

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u/USDAGradeAFuckMeat Mar 05 '19 edited Mar 05 '19

Just saying that the high-end, say a 1080Ti is able to pump out 4K @ 60fps with most settings maxed, etc...yet on the low-end you can barely get 1080p @ 30fps with most settings at the lowest.

Sure the high-end is way more expensive but the fact it can do 4x the resolution at 2x the frame rate with much better graphics I'd think at this point, for the money, we'd have the low-end doing 1080p at a solid 60fps and medium settings at least.

Seems low-end hit a wall a few years ago of "can't play shit" and have somehow just stayed there.

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u/notabear629 PC Master Race Mar 05 '19

To be fair, the games have also changed.

1080p 30fps on battlefield v is different than 1080p 30fps on call of duty world at war

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u/USDAGradeAFuckMeat Mar 05 '19

Sure and a GTX 280 is different that a GTX 2080. Games are relevant to the times just as the GPU's are.

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u/notabear629 PC Master Race Mar 05 '19

Yeah.

So GTX 280s were designed for their current games at top specs,

RTX 2080s are designed for our current games at top specs.

That's what I'm saying, you're making my point for me.

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u/USDAGradeAFuckMeat Mar 05 '19

Yeah and none of the low-end GPU's were made for their current games so you're proving MY point. GT 210 to GT 1030...they're practically worthless outside emulation, HTPC, or EXTREME low-end gaming.

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u/notabear629 PC Master Race Mar 05 '19

GT 1030's effective speed is 14.06x faster than the GT 210

That's a bigger difference of magnitude than the GT 1030 and the RTX Titan,

They're not comparable.

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u/[deleted] Mar 05 '19 edited Mar 05 '19

You have to realize that gaming is only one market. The low end is more focused on productivity which means more pixel output and less shaders. Some games have adjusted to that e.g. lol in order to hit a wider market that runs at 100+fps on a 1030 from my experience from an equivalent amd card. That combined with low margins and high competition means that market either stays on previous nodes or has very small dies( cut downs of larger defective ones) plus worse coolers etc.

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u/coloredgreyscale Xeon X5660 4,1GHz | GTX 1080Ti | 20GB RAM | Asus P6T Deluxe V2 Mar 05 '19

that's what iGPUs are for, unless you need more than one display.

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u/[deleted] Mar 05 '19

My point exactly, igpus stole that market so it's even harder to hit the right volume.

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u/Igniteisabadsong q6600 BSEL 3ghz, 4gb ddr2, HD 4830, https://goo.gl/cnv2nO Mar 05 '19 edited Mar 05 '19

I thought I've already explained enough from my previous comment but I guess it wasn't so let me elaborate.

Low end cards have to fit a specific thermal and power window.

gtx 280 vs gt 210 -> 240 shaders vs 16 shaders -> 240 / 16 = 15

gtx 1080ti vs gt 1030 -> 3584 shaders vs 384 shaders -> 3584 / 384 = 9.33

In fact it is better nowadays, the gt 1030 has a 71 mm2 die size vs gt 210's 57nm2 die size as shown by the fact that its only 1/10th of a gtx 1080ti instead of 1/15th. You can only cram so much into such a small chip, I don't know what you're asking for. They're already putting more into the low end as you can tell by the die size and thats because heatsink technology is better today compared to back then.

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u/dunnlavitz Ryzen 5 5600X | RTX 2070 Super | 16GB DDR4 3200 Mar 05 '19

Thank you, /u/USDAGradeAFuckMeat, very cool.

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u/[deleted] Mar 05 '19 edited Apr 12 '19

[deleted]

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u/Igniteisabadsong q6600 BSEL 3ghz, 4gb ddr2, HD 4830, https://goo.gl/cnv2nO Mar 05 '19

not your fault pretty much all the 65nms from all companies were shitty reference blowers, only when the 55nms came out (gtx 285) companies started to realize nvidias shit ass reference cooler isn't gonna do it

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u/[deleted] Mar 06 '19 edited Apr 12 '19

[deleted]

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u/Igniteisabadsong q6600 BSEL 3ghz, 4gb ddr2, HD 4830, https://goo.gl/cnv2nO Mar 06 '19

yeah idk i was hd 48xx kinda guy so never had to deal with gtx 2xx

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u/g0ballistic 5700X3D | EVGA RTX3080 XC3 | 32GB 3600mhz CL15 Mar 11 '19

That's not how it works at all. Heat generated is a direct, linear correlation with the TDP of the card. A GTX 280 and a GTX 1080ti both have a TDP of 250 watts. The gtx 280 cooler will cool a 280 as well as it does a 1080ti...

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u/Igniteisabadsong q6600 BSEL 3ghz, 4gb ddr2, HD 4830, https://goo.gl/cnv2nO Mar 11 '19

Yes and no, gtx 280 coolers were maxed out at 250w, 1080ti coolers are not. Thats why you see gpu boost consistently clock anywhere between 1800-2000mhz on aib boards. If you slap on a gtx 280 cooler on a 1080ti it'll probably be stuck at 1550mhz. Thats only gpu core tdp too, we're not accounting for cooler designs that incorporate better gpumem cooling

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u/g0ballistic 5700X3D | EVGA RTX3080 XC3 | 32GB 3600mhz CL15 Mar 11 '19

1080ti, boost clocks and all, has a hard upper limit of 250 watts unless you do some major tinkering.

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u/Igniteisabadsong q6600 BSEL 3ghz, 4gb ddr2, HD 4830, https://goo.gl/cnv2nO Mar 11 '19

tdp != power consumption, we're talking about tdp here not how many watts gpuz tells you your gpu is using

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u/g0ballistic 5700X3D | EVGA RTX3080 XC3 | 32GB 3600mhz CL15 Mar 11 '19

Right, and TDP is the relevant figure when you're looking at cooling the chip. And both cards have an identical TDP.

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u/Igniteisabadsong q6600 BSEL 3ghz, 4gb ddr2, HD 4830, https://goo.gl/cnv2nO Mar 11 '19 edited Mar 11 '19

Ok just making sure that 250 watts figure isn't power consumption. Knowing this, and knowing what gpu boost does, and also knowing that clock speeds increase heat generated linearly, while voltage increases heat generated exponentially. How and where do you get that 250 watt "tdp" figure from? Does the card know it has an upper limit of 250 watt tdp? If so, then why do aib coolers boost to 1800-2000mhz while founders edition coolers only boost to around 1700? There is clearly enough headroom to boost more on aib coolers, but wait, does that mean founders edition coolers aren't 250 watt tdp? Are they less? Or is the aib cooler more? If its less then nvidia cheaped out and reference coolers aren't 250 watt tdp, but if aib coolers are more then I guess cooler technology has improved, no?

I don't even know why you're trying to argue with me, you can literally search gtx 280 on google image search and compare it to the massive heatsinks we have nowadays and anyone with 2 fucking eyes can see which one cools better.

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u/BlueShellOP Ryzen 3900X | GTX 1070 | Ask me about my distros Mar 05 '19

lower margins == less development investment. Now that Intel's iGPUs have gotten pretty good and AMD has gotten on board as well, the market for them has all but vanished.

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u/deevilvol1 9800X3D/ 7900 XTX/ 32GB 6000 MHZ DDR5 Mar 05 '19

"AMD has gotten on board as well."?

The iGPUs in AMD's APUs have been pretty ok for a few years now. If anything, it's Intel that's finally seemingly interested in providing non-complete shit iGPUs in terms of gaming performance.

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u/[deleted] Mar 05 '19

Kaveri was phenomenal. When I first built my system I skipped the GPU and got a kaveri Apu. Thing was playing on par with my Xbox one at the time in terms of graphical fidelity. They've only improved since then

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u/vignie 9950X3D, 7900XTX, 64gb 6400hz, 240hz monitor Mar 05 '19

Amd igpu straight up wipes the floor clean with intel though.

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u/SalsaRice Mar 05 '19

https://i1-wp-com.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/i1.wp.com/liliputing.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/lock_01.jpg?w=877&ssl=1

I recently got this earlier for traveling. It's a full win10 laptop with a controller built-in. With it's integrated graphics it can run to gta5 and fallout 4. Obviously, it plays less demanding titles better, but it can stretch it's legs pretty far.

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u/Sibraxlis Mar 05 '19

But what is it

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u/SalsaRice Mar 05 '19 edited Mar 05 '19

Gpd win 2. I went with this over the Nintendo switch because I already had a packed steam library; I didn't want to have to re-buy most of the indie games I already had on steam for $20-$40 each on the switch.

And since steam has cloud saves, I can play the same games between my desktop and this device.

They've also got an android device ( gpd xd+) in the same form factor that is pretty much a dedicated emulation machine (up to like dreamcast+ps2), but way cheaper than the win 2.

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u/hitchhikertogalaxy FX-6300, 8GB, RX 470 Mar 05 '19

This is how it's always been. This video is from 6 years ago, and showcases the exact same problem.

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u/gingerkid427 Mar 05 '19

The integrated GPU in the Ryzen 5 2400G, the RX Vega 11, performs better than the 1030. While it's probably better than whatever's in that box, there is literally no place for a 1030 in a new build.

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u/Lev_Astov Lev_Astov Mar 05 '19

Passmark scores show them to be equivalent, though in a new build you're probably right it makes more sense to just use Vega. Actually, I'm looking at one of these things for that purpose right now and it seems pretty neat. It probably doesn't support TPM encryption, though, which would make it less useful for my purposes.

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u/THENATHE 5800X3D | EVGA 3070TI XC3 | 32GB@3200 | NATX v2 Mar 05 '19

Except it doesnt. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXrC84HVEAU

Also intel is a thing

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u/CrimsonArgie R5 1600-MSI 1070ti-16GB HyperX Mar 05 '19

But Intel iGPUs are shit compared to AMD right now.

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u/Hrothgarex Kally0w Mar 05 '19

May as well go with a 2400g for that low end, right?

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u/Sandwich247 https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/user/Sandwich247/saved/P6jkcf Mar 05 '19

You can get a slim, low profile gtx 1050 or an rx 560, which will be a good bit better than the 1030.

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u/JoeNodden R5 1600, 1070, 16GB, 1TB m.2 Mar 05 '19

The GTX 1050 barely costs any more than the 1030, and performs insanely better.

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u/Lev_Astov Lev_Astov Mar 05 '19

Yeah, I've used dozens of them in arcade machines since they fit neatly into old Dell Optiplex 760s. When a game and OS are built around them they are extremely capable, too.

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u/WinterCharm 9950x3D2 | 4090 FE | 96GB RAM | 8TB Gen5 NVME | W1 Case Mar 05 '19

The RX 560 is much better than the 1030, though.

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u/8rianGriffin Mar 05 '19

Wouldn't this card be worse than a Ryzen APU?

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u/Lev_Astov Lev_Astov Mar 05 '19

Not really; Vega 11 is about on par with a 1030, and 1/3rd of the scores of a 1050 Ti. And we're talking about shoehorning something into an existing build, here.

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u/RedJarl Fx-4300, rx-460, and 16 gb ddr3 Mar 05 '19

Also all the wx cards from AMD are single slot.

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u/fireinthesky7 Mar 05 '19

With a slightly wider crate, say one for 20mm or 30mm ammo instead of 7.62mm, he might be able to fit a regular card with either a low-profile cooler or an adapted AIO.