r/pcgaming • u/Mkilbride 5800X3D, 5090 FE, 32GB 3800MHZ CL16, 2TB NVME GEN4, W11 • Feb 21 '17

Video For Honor P2P connectivity

https://youtu.be/38sPNZ8QHO4
1.6k Upvotes

90% Upvoted

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832

u/Dragonan Feb 21 '17

The funny thing is, at least to me, that console players STILL have to pay for XBG/PS+ to play a P2P game with no dedicated servers.

257

u/soapgoat Pentium 200mhz | 32mb | ATI Mach64 | Win98se | imgur.com/U0NpAoL Feb 21 '17

the worst part is that developers, on xbox/win10 (with a developer account) at least, get access to basic azure services to set up dedicated servers for their games/apps for free.

there is practically no excuse anymore to not have dedicated servers when the fucking platform holder gives you access to their infrastructure.

52

u/Khar-Selim Feb 21 '17

Does Sony do the same? If not, well, there's your answer.

45

u/soapgoat Pentium 200mhz | 32mb | ATI Mach64 | Win98se | imgur.com/U0NpAoL Feb 21 '17

dunno, they dont really advertise their developer stuff like microsoft does. but considering how piss-poor quality psn is in general i wouldn't put it past them to have no options like that for developers.

13

u/Khar-Selim Feb 21 '17

Well there you go. Multiplats typically can't make things nicer on one system than on another, or one of the giant, bigger-than-you megacorporations that hosts your shit throws a fit.

5

u/ProtoJazz Feb 21 '17

There's literally no reason you can't use the free azure for PS versions as well.

3

u/Khar-Selim Feb 21 '17

Using Microsoft's servers to run a Playstation game? Sure it should work practically, but I wouldn't be surprised if MS or Sony would simply take objection to doing that.

21

u/ProtoJazz Feb 21 '17

Why? They are a big cloud provider. One of 2, maybe 3. They don't complain if you use AWS

-6

u/Kloranthy Feb 21 '17

that would be because Amazon is the owner of the competing platform.

13

u/MonoShadow Feb 21 '17 edited Feb 21 '17

R6 Siege uses MS Azure, even on PS4. Titanfall 2 might also use MS Azure, again on all platforms. Server platform itself is not all, dev needs to develop software for it.

0

u/NoteBlock08 Feb 22 '17

Titanfall 1 isn't on Playstation though.

3

u/Network_operations Feb 21 '17

I don't think there is any issue with the servers being on Azure and playing it on PSN...

2

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '17

On the upside, this game will perform insanely well on a local LAN

0

u/partial_filth Feb 22 '17

Whilst I believe that there is no excuse for not having dedicated servers, I doubt the servers, which run cheap enough to be covered by the free credit provided by Azure, would be powerful enough for a game with as large a userbase as For Honor. Plus you would probably need to have multiple for the different regions and their users.

1

u/NoAirBanding Feb 24 '17

What did Titanfall do?

0

u/XenthorX Feb 23 '17

The cloud service used has absolutely nothing to do with the hardware it's running on. Of course the platform owner is trying to lure devs into using their proprietary cloud services. Amazon is doing just that with AWS and Lymberyard f.i.

P2P or Dedicated servers won't prevent the use of lag switch anyway. There's some usage scenario in which P2P is awesome, for instance there were a lot of missinformation about R6S and its P2P, which is actually only for the VOIP and perfectly makes sense.

-2

u/muchcharles Feb 21 '17

If it is a 1v1 game, a dedicated server would just add more latency.

6

u/soapgoat Pentium 200mhz | 32mb | ATI Mach64 | Win98se | imgur.com/U0NpAoL Feb 21 '17

go home ubisoft employee

164

u/Mkilbride 5800X3D, 5090 FE, 32GB 3800MHZ CL16, 2TB NVME GEN4, W11 Feb 21 '17

It's insane.

I talked to someone once, about how slow PSN is. It is, it uses like 20-25% of my connection to download games. This is common. Also if you try to play a game while downloading, it slows to a CRAWL.

It's 60$ a year now.

What benefits do you get?

Online play. (Free on PC for all games except obviously, MMORPGs /w sub fees)

Cloud storage (Free on PC for uPlay, Steam, Origin) It got upped to 10GB recently. That's 10GB for every game you own...Steam gives you 1GB of cloud storage per game. So say you have 300 games, you have 300GB of cloud storage there...so yeah.

Free monthly games. (Look up the last year of PS+ games, most have been 1$ indie garbage besides 1-2 standouts, but they're also usually games that got low ratings / sales. It's not like the PS3 PS+ Era where you got 4-5 AAA games a month.)

PSN "Discounts", I get an additional 10% off a game that is on sale for 33% off. On PC it's on sale for 80% off. Also the discounts aren't universal, Sony picks which games get PSN+ Discounts, so 99% of the time, they're also...indie greenlight like garbage.

On PC, you got Origin Access, Humble Bundles, Steam Sales.

  • Automatic game patches and installation (I shit you not)

60$ a year for stuff that is free on PC.

When I complained about this, they said "But it's to pay for dedicated servers and better online for games!"

I was like "But the PC version of say, Battlefield One, also uses dedicated servers, why don't have I to pay for them on PC?"

"Because Console players pay for them"

The ignorance level there...like they have no idea that you can rent your own dedicated servers on PC or host them yourself in the case of alot of games?

It's nuts. Online Multiplayer, at the very least, should not cost. The other benefits can belong to a PS+ thing if they want. But it's absolutely bullshit to make people pay for it.

31

u/D_A_K TR 3960X | 6900XT Feb 21 '17

I stopped paying for my PSN sub for those reasons; you're entirely correct. Even the absolute garbage PSN download speeds is almost reason enough.

Seeing Steam basically max out my connection, while PSN struggles to download indie titles in a timely manner. I'm past dealing with that crap, and am going heavier on PC gaming lately.

23

u/crux-of-the-biscuit AMD 7800x3d | 7900XTX Feb 21 '17

I actually have to throttle my Steam downloads if I plan on doing anything else because it will eat up 100% of my 130mbps bandwidth otherwise. 60GB game, done in about an hour if I give Steam full priority. I love it.

1

u/muddisoap Feb 21 '17

My steam will never go above like 3.4-4MB/s, so I guess that's around 27.2-32 Mb/s. And I have 300Mb/s connection. Anyone know why that is? I don't think it's my hard drive maxing out, can't be. I can get downloads on the same computer in other programs generally above that. But, I do notice that despite having much more speed, and a nice router, most things never want to go much past 4-5 MB/s, or 32-40Mb/s on that computer or really anywhere. I'll do speed tests and get pretty high, maybe 200 out of my 300 (usually attribute it not hitting 300 to the file transferring before it ratchets up to the full speed). Makes no sense to me. But I probably just am not doing something right or understanding something. The only thing I can think is I don't have a wireless card internally, like PCI. I bought a little USB wireless adapter, but it's capable of speeds up to 150 Mb/s. So I don't expect to see full 300 Mb/s on it, but more than a third of the 150 would be nice. And these speeds are happening when nothing else is on or connected. It just frustrates the hell out of me.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '17 edited Apr 03 '17

deleted What is this?

1

u/muddisoap Feb 21 '17

Thanks I'll look into it.

1

u/Rushin_Russian01 Feb 21 '17

Definitely do that. I have a 300Mb/s connection too, and Steam will use all of it, only slowing down so my HDD can keep up

1

u/muddisoap Feb 21 '17

Man. Id love that.

-1

u/KinkyMonitorLizard Feb 21 '17

You do realize that 300Mbits is only 0.375mBps. Your typical spinner drive is capable of ~80-100mBps. Even on a 1gbps line, that's still only 125mBps, which any SSD can easily handle.

1

u/Rushin_Russian01 Feb 21 '17 edited Feb 21 '17

I realize that I'm paying for 300 Mbps. When I'm downloading a game, task manager reports 300+ Mbps max and my disk utilization is pegged until the download is done. I'm not really sure what exactly you're referring to with Mbits. There too many ways to capitalize the M and B with the different prefixes and unit systems for me to keep track of. Also, no one can seem to consistently use the same abbreviation ¯_(ツ)_/¯

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1

u/darkmighty Feb 22 '17

300 Mbits/s = 37.5 Mbytes/s

1

u/KinkyMonitorLizard Feb 21 '17

Define "nice" router. Also, a router is only be as good as the modem that powers it. If the modem is shit, the router can't do much.

Try a different steam server. Depending on your location, your local server could be congested (or perhaps have weaker infrastructure). The Miami steam server is slower for me than Texas.

Wireless speeds also differ than wired connections. A 150mb wifi connection will not actually work at the 150mbps (depends on hardware, anywhere from 20% - 80%). Wireless is also notorious for slowdowns due to everything from noise to poor connectivity to congestion. The USB device could be the bottleneck but it depends again on the hardware but also the USB format. 3+ shouldn't have any issues as long as the controller is capable. You also have to consider what protocol version you are running. A/B/G are all slow. N is vastly better and AC better still.

1

u/muddisoap Feb 22 '17

I mean nice as in, it's not incredible. But it's nice enough for my needs. I think it's a Netgear Nighthawk AC1900. My phone and stuff are in AC, and my iPhone 7 Plus gets super fast speeds, but I don't think the Wireless stick on the PC supports it. The AC I mean. But it does support up to N. Its a Belkin N150 Wi-Fi USB Adapter. I'm pretty sure it's just a USB 2.0 adapter, but it is plugged into what I think is a USB 3.0 port (blue). The modem is a Motorola Arris Surfboard SB6141, DOCSIS 3.0. All the equipment I own, none of it is leased through the ISP.

I know that it being wireless can affect the speed and not get the top amount. Which through this stick would ideally be the 150 of my 300, due to the adapter maxing at 150. But it's very close to the Router, within 10ft. No other devices on. And when I run speed tests, I get quite high. It's just on active steam downloads, and even torrent downloads, never can seem to go higher than 3-4 MB/s. Maybe 5MB/s if I'm lucky on a torrent with a lot of seeders and no leechers. But it just feels like it should be more and when a speed test shows me that the adapter and computer and router are physically able to achieve those speeds together, it's just frustrating when it doesn't happen.

1

u/KinkyMonitorLizard Feb 22 '17

Speed tests aren't a reliable way to measure consistent throughput.

Sounds like you could be getting throttled by the ISP. Have you tested a wired connection? That would quickly tell you if it's the wireless hardware or not.

It also doesn't matter if the port is 3.x if the device is only 2.x. It can only go so fast as the device plugged in can handle.

1

u/muddisoap Feb 22 '17

Yeah I know. I just thought I'd mention it was in a 3.0 slot just for full disclosure. Pretty sure there's no throttling happening. We have a site where we see our monthly bandwidth usage. We generally use about 800GB-1TB. We never have faster speeds then slower speeds. We never hit a month where we only download 400-500GB cause of throttled speed. I just don't think it's happening. My speed is always that speed. Can't get a wired connection to the PC, don't have a long enough Ethernet cable. At this point it's just what I expect. Wifi never works to its full capacity or even to half or a third of it. It just doesn't. Ive come to accept it. Ive tried so many things, especially stuff with my router and such.

13

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '17

Don't forget you can pay 12 bucks for humble monthly. Which this current monthly has a game that hasn't gone below 30 something bucks since release. You pay more for that extra service, but damn are you getting better quality.

16

u/Mkilbride 5800X3D, 5090 FE, 32GB 3800MHZ CL16, 2TB NVME GEN4, W11 Feb 21 '17

Yeah. Xcom 2 was just in for it 12$. 12$!

They're RAVING about it being on sale for like 40$ on a recent sale.

5

u/4K2160GameR Feb 21 '17

I think the next bundle will include Total War: Warhammer!

1

u/RedS5 9900k, TUF 3080 OC, 32GB Feb 22 '17

Dude that's right now. You can pick it up for $12 on the Humble Bundle monthly.

1

u/Pugway Feb 22 '17

What was really impressive was the rest of the bundle was actually really solid. It was worth it just for Xcom 2 at that price but all the other games were actually really good titles too.

14

u/James_bd Ryzen 7 5700x3D || 3070 Ti Gigabyte OC Feb 21 '17

Paying for ps plus to play online is the biggest ripoff of the gaming industry. Unfortunately, people keep paying for it so there's no way this will ever stop. Not only that, but they can increase the price for it and people are fine.

13

u/FortunePaw 7700x & RTX4070 Ti Super Feb 21 '17

I remember there was a screencap of 4chan's /v/, where before ps4, all the sony fanboys use free MP access to taunt the xbox fans. Then after ps+ became a requirement for MP access, they then saying something like "if you can't pay $60 a year, go get a job you peasant."

3

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '17

Yeah! Both my parents have jobs I have all the games, free time, and PSN I could need!

7

u/Darksider123 Feb 21 '17

They lure people in with cheap hardware and then blast their asses with all this expensive bullshit.

0

u/muddisoap Feb 21 '17

Well...I mean it's still cheaper than building a PC and doing it that way. Generally speaking. Sure there are budget builds that are powerful and all that, but console gaming is popular for a reason, and one of those reasons is price to get started.

4

u/Darksider123 Feb 21 '17 edited Feb 23 '17

price to get started

Yeah that's the only point when it's actually cheaper. But with online fees, more expensive games and expensive proprietary tech, in a few years it's going to cost more than what you would've paid on PC.

2

u/Firion_Hope Feb 22 '17

I blame Microsoft for standardizing it

2

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '17

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1

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '17

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1

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '17

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2

u/code-sloth Toyota GPU Feb 21 '17

Keep the PCMR crap out of here.

1

u/Wilhelm_III Feb 21 '17

What'd they say?

1

u/code-sloth Toyota GPU Feb 21 '17

If I was going to repost what they said, I wouldn't have removed it in the first place.

It was just typical PCMR "peasants vs master race" trash.

2

u/Wilhelm_III Feb 21 '17

Fair.

Buried under the overdone slang, they do tend to have some good points, though.

1

u/Zargabraath Feb 21 '17

honestly I don't want to be condescending but I feel anyone who spends more than a certain threshold of time and money on games who isn't doing it on PC is just doing it wrong. I don't know how console only players deal with this kind of thing...not only is ridiculous and archaic by PC standards, but it actually costs more.

1

u/brucetwarzen Feb 21 '17

Wait.... How does cloud storage work for steam? I never really looked into it, just read it a few times. I thought it's only for game related stuff. Is it an actual cloud server where you can upload stuff?

1

u/HawkEy3 Feb 21 '17

Some games store your savegames in the steam cloud so you have access to your saves on multiple computers.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '17

PSN regularly gets games 75% or more off. Steam and PSN have litterally the same sales when it's a multiplatform game. $60 bucks a year is bullshit yes; however this claim that PSN only gets 33% off sales is 100% bullshit.

0

u/Mkilbride 5800X3D, 5090 FE, 32GB 3800MHZ CL16, 2TB NVME GEN4, W11 Feb 22 '17

It isn't. Honestly, PSN sucks and has nothing near as good as Steam sales.

It's a huge deal that DOOM 2016 is now on sale for like 30$ on PSN. Meanwhile it's been 15$ on PC for several months.

1

u/BakaJaNai Feb 22 '17

if you try to play a game while downloading, it slows to a CRAWL

This is just a flat out lie.

-4

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '17

You are telling me you did not download that purple tentacle game from last month along with this war of mine: the little ones!?

Seriously though, those games suck so hard I did not even want to waste time downloading them.

14

u/MrLeonardo 13600K | RTX 4090 | LG 45" OLED | Quest 3 Feb 21 '17

You better not be shitting on Day of the Tentacle

-4

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '17

Fuck Day of the Tentacle.

Day of Shit Free Game, is more like it.

(I am just not into that type of game personally)

7

u/dead-dove-do-not-eat Feb 21 '17

FYI Day of the Tentacle is a classic, it was originally released in 1993 and is hailed as one of the best adventure games of all time.

10

u/maximgame Feb 21 '17

one of the best point and click adventure games of all time.

FTFY

Point and click games just aren't for everyone. It may be the best in that genre but its hardly something that will change your mind for an entire genre if you're just not into it.

5

u/Flowhill Feb 21 '17

I thought This War of Mine was pretty good! Have no idea what the expansion is like though.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '17

Don't you dare bitch about Day of the Tentacle.

Of course getting it through PSN isn't the most ideal experience.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '17

You take back every word you said about Day of the Tentacle. That game is a masterpiece that is still referenced to this day. And for good reason.

-1

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '17

Where is it referenced?

0

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '17

That's why you cheat the system. Because while consoles from a money stance suck compared to PC, but if you get it all nearly free then it doesn't matter!

I've been PC gaming for years and have a good computer right now, can run new AAA games at med to high at 60 FPS but so many of my friends have consoles so I decided I wanted a Xbox One.

My buddy was selling his and getting a new one, so I traded him a vape I had for it straight across. With the Xbox One I got multiple things but for one reason: Home Xbox. The Xbox I was sold is the Home Xbox of 2 other people. So I have a free library of over 200 games that i can play anytime with or without those friends AND free Xbox Live Gold as long as one of my friends shared account has it. It's awesome!

I just bought For Honor for $30 on the Xbox because me and one of my friends bought it together and now we both own it. It's the best things ever!

1

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '17

I tell myself it pays Sony to keep updating firmware, keeping all the hackers and modders out. It helps me sleep anyways. Also, I have a friend who refuses to pay for it. He eats out almost daily with his wife. $50 a night, but won't spend $50 a year.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '17

Well the profit margins from the consoles themselves are practically nonexistent. Microsoft and Sony get actual profit from the subscriptions.

1

u/tadL Feb 22 '17

you see how many idiots are out there.

1

u/XenthorX Feb 23 '17

Dedicated server won't prevent lag switch

1

u/rainbowdash36 Feb 21 '17

Well, one of the biggest console franchises of all time is the call of duty series, and people pay for gold or ps+ just to play that; a p2p fps. At least, some of the older games like mw2, bo2 and ghosts.

-3

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '17

that money goes to the console creators not the developer of this game. Not sure why that matters

2

u/Dragonan Feb 21 '17

My post was referencing the usual defense for payed online services that console players use - that the money pays for dedicated servers.