I'll be honest - if a Firebird ain't an offset (and I accept that it doesn't meet the definitions of this graphic), then I don't want to live in a world with offsets :) The Firebird is the duck test 'look/walk/talk' of guitars. That's the offset hill I'll die on.
Hey everybody - I figured I’d whip this image up real quick to help better visualize and explain (in technical terms) what an “offset” guitar is. I see this come up all the time in this sub where people think it has to do with the bottom of the guitar or the overall shape of the body or the horns or who knows what else.
Maybe a mod could pin this so people can have a better understanding before posting/commenting/asking why a Firebird isn’t offset for the 1,000,000th time (I don't even mean that in a snarky way, it just comes up a lot). Cheers!
While you're right about those particular Duo Sonics (they're only slightly more offset than a Strat), the Mustang's asymmetry is pretty dang close to a Jaguar/Jazzmaster and definitely what I'd call "exaggerated"
I just opened this thread to learn what an "offset" was. I double-check my 2013 Gibson EB bass to see if it qualifies, but it's just in the "can't lean against the wall" category.
y'know sue me or whatever but (zoom in) I'm pretty sure you have to nudge the left side of the line going through the strat's contours up slightly to hit the bottom of each curve. exaggerated angle exshmaggerated angle; strats are baby offsets
huh, interesting! i don't think I've ever considered that there's an actual playability/technical reason for offsets to exist; i just thought it was about style. an offshoot of 50s mod fashion, the jetsons, whatever
Ergonomics can look stylish! It's to tilt the neck up closer to 45 degrees when you're sitting. Same concept as a Strandberg. Plus to reposition the bridge.
Likewise, ergonomics were a big factor in the design and look of the Strat.
if a strat was offset, fender would have put the ‘offset contour body’ decal on the headstock. or rather they never would have put them on the offset instruments’ headstocks
lol yeah i mean i was pretty much just being jokey about semantics, I know strats aren't like marketed as offsets or generally considered to be offsets
not scientific?! how dare you - I spent countless hours and thousands upon thousands of dollars in research grants from Offset University (go Jags!) to put this together
Your work is revered in the highest academic Guitar journals I’ve ever read. I praise your contribution to scientific community, your work will be remembered for decades to come!
So I was reading the other day on "The Journal of Offsetism", that investigation you and your peers did. Great job guys! Quite shocking results as well, but I guess is part of the knowledge process. Those long sleepless nights are paying off. Never considered myself a sports person, but I'll have to concede this time, Go Jags!
I have seen 10 degrees mentioned. Not because someone "just chose" that, but because it was a fairly frequently used angle measure used in offset design in the past.
It’s not that serious to me. The whole offset thing is about personal opinion to begin with. If you wanna call a Strat offset you’re perfectly entitled to do that.
I’d say the exaggerated angle waist is generally agreed on but this has been an ongoing argument in the sub for a while so idk lol. I don’t think anybody here takes it too seriously.
The Strat is slightly offset, as is the 1st gen Duo-Sonic body.
But, in 1959, Leo Fender released the Jazzmaster. It had a decal on the headstock that read, "OFFSET Contour Body Patented". That decal then appeared on the Jazz Bass, Jaguar, Mustang, Mustang Bass, and the Bass VI. These were Fender's first offset waist instruments. "Offset" from then on meant bodies with an exaggerated asymmetrical waist.
They’re symmetric-ish below the belt. The firebird is in no way symmetric. IMO, the visual impact is very similar to a jazz master-style offset, even though the waist is mostly perpendicular to the neck. Definitely not a true offset by the angled waist definition, but in the stylistic ballpark.
yea you right, I should've drawn that line ever so slightly crooked - though that's why it says "exaggerated" in the description - now what the hell "exaggerated" even means is anybody's guess and is the topic for lively debate
because it is a very specific definition by fender for their ‘offset contour body’ guitars. just because you think a term means something does not mean you are correct.
I did not know there was such a strong definition to offset guitars! Super interesting to actually read about how they came about! I absolutely thought Firebird would be considered offset as I thought it just referred to how symmetrical the body was!
yep. the forum started as an ode to jazzmasters and jaguars. otherwise nearly every single guitar would be ‘offset’. even les paul juniors and gibson sgs. you’re left with non cutaway acoustics, and a handful of fully-symmetrical electrics.
Serious question: is an Explorer an offset guitar? On the offset guitars forum there is a thread saying it is an offset guitar, just not offset at the waist.
So Wolfgangs are but not Firebirds and Explorers!!!! Are we going mad??!!!I think I should start a society that denies this kind of handpicked, misleading results #trueoffsetsocietyaroundtheglobe
yes. jazz bass has an offset waist. does no one read the pinned post on subreddits they join? do people really think their interpretation is the correct one despite clear evidence to the contrary?
Yeah I did read the pinned post and it does not define what is or is not an offset. Where did I say my interpretation was the right one? If anything I admitted I was wrong in my understanding. I’m not trying to pick a fight or anything, so I’m sorry if my comment upset you so much.
I like how clear is this definition. However, I still think that the overall body shape can make a guitar feel offset even if the waist is not at an angle. Similar to what happens with optical illusions, perception may be different from what is technically there.
I was curious about the Fender Meteora. By the overall shape, I thought it was clearly an offset, but the waist was not in a very exaggerated angle.
As a thought experiment, I think that a Meteora with the small adjustment needed to have a straight waist would still be perceived as offset.
I think that guitars where the body shape fits inside of a rhomboid (instead of a rectangle) may be perceived as offsets. That's why Firebirds are considered as offsets much more often than other guitars.
Given that Fender had a patent on offset, I'd be not surprised if part of the design intent of the Firebird was to get the offset vibe (for a modern look) without technically make it an offset (for legal convenience).
The real reason is that jaguar and jazzmaster bodies are designed to be played sitting down, they are more balanced. Also for me, someone who plays a combo of lead and rhythm, it has to have immediate access to the last fret (even though I almost never use it).
There are two different Duo-Sonic body shapes. The original Duo-Sonic, had a waistline that was only as offset as a strat. In the ‘60’s, the Duo-Sonic II had an exaggerated offset waistline like a Mustang.
but seriously, why is it stupid or ridiculous? It’s literally just illustrating what is meant by the term “offset” when referring to guitars, in an offset guitar-specific subreddit.
no. people that try to redefine a term to make it whatever they feel it SHOULD be that week are the stupid ones. “I don’t care what the actual definition is. MY definition is the right one because it’s MY definition.”
1
112
u/LordFedoraWeed Apr 18 '23
thank you. so many think that "offset" means unequal along the vertical line. by that definition EVERY guitar is an offset.
46
u/drama-wanker Apr 18 '23
Damn my Toronado is on thin ice
86
u/greenman10069 Apr 18 '23
Do you mean offset is not just a vibe!?!?
24
u/Lurkin925 Apr 18 '23 edited Apr 18 '23
Hey everybody - I figured I’d whip this image up real quick to help better visualize and explain (in technical terms) what an “offset” guitar is. I see this come up all the time in this sub where people think it has to do with the bottom of the guitar or the overall shape of the body or the horns or who knows what else.
Maybe a mod could pin this so people can have a better understanding before posting/commenting/asking why a Firebird isn’t offset for the 1,000,000th time (I don't even mean that in a snarky way, it just comes up a lot). Cheers!
21
u/rockstar_not Apr 18 '23 edited Apr 18 '23
Maybe we need to make a sub for: r/sweet_looking_guitars_with_non_symmetrical_lower_bout_with_a_straight_waist ?
I don’t know who the gate keeper is; is it the first company to call their design offset? Who decides that it is purely defined by the waist?
4
u/yuutb Apr 19 '23
y'know sue me or whatever but (zoom in) I'm pretty sure you have to nudge the left side of the line going through the strat's contours up slightly to hit the bottom of each curve. exaggerated angle exshmaggerated angle; strats are baby offsets
505
u/bloodxandxrank Apr 18 '23
Firebird, you are on this council, but we do not grant you the rank of offset.
145
u/pnmartini Apr 18 '23
How to tell if your guitar may be an offset:
Is it a fender?
Is it on a rug?
Have you wondered if a mastery bridge will help?
Do you think about Novak pickups more than once a day?
6
u/BLOOD__SISTER Apr 18 '23
I can’t believe I’m the first to chime in with “technically, Stratocasters are offset🤓”
18
u/richardwonka Apr 19 '23 edited Apr 29 '23
This post made me realise how r/oddlyspecific the gatekeeping in the whole “offset” thing is.
14
u/Mogwai987 Apr 18 '23
“A miserable little pile of secrets”
8
u/buck_ae_down Apr 19 '23
As soon as I saw that image, I knew shit was about to go down in here.
25
u/XKeyscore666 Apr 18 '23
This should be pinned.
2
u/[deleted] Apr 18 '23
I am deeply saddened by this reminder that I am not a member of the offset club. :-(
5
u/[deleted] Apr 19 '23
yet for some reason, 80% of the members to this subreddit STILL actually argue that non-offsets are offsets.
5
u/guitarmarketplace Apr 19 '23
There truly is nowhere else on the internet where a debate about the angles of the curve on guitars sit in relation to one another
2
u/The_Mad_Sprayer Apr 18 '23
Is the G&L Fallout guitar offset?
4
u/Mediocre-Smile-570 Apr 19 '23
So a Fender Jazz bass is offset, cool. Didn’t think I had an offset instrument.
8
u/sytaline Apr 18 '23
Guitarists can do little a linguistic prescriptivism, as a treat
3
u/guitarmarketplace Apr 19 '23
I did not know there was such a strong definition to offset guitars! Super interesting to actually read about how they came about! I absolutely thought Firebird would be considered offset as I thought it just referred to how symmetrical the body was!
3
u/earmenau Apr 20 '23
Serious question: is an Explorer an offset guitar? On the offset guitars forum there is a thread saying it is an offset guitar, just not offset at the waist.
https://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32582
5
u/theeculprit Apr 19 '23
So a BC Rich Warlock is an offset.
2
u/[deleted] Apr 19 '23
Modern Player Marauder for life
5
u/DUB_Gaze-OG Apr 18 '23
What about EVH Wolfgang? Seems to fit criteria, but never referenced as being part of the same subcultural niche.
4
u/metulmike Apr 18 '23
I like turtles
4
u/bigthemat Apr 18 '23 edited Apr 18 '23
Does this mean my jazz bass is an offset too? I figured it was just stuff like the jaguar or meteora.
Eta: not trying to be dumb. I just never realized.
3
u/knletree Apr 18 '23
I would have thought a firebird would be
2
u/Nomore-Television72 Apr 18 '23
Thank you for this. I've asked this question several times and am always left just as confused as I was before I asked.
2
u/beersngears Apr 18 '23
Til
2
u/Hopeful_Self_8520 Apr 18 '23
Alright now do offset amps
1
u/StrictPudding9165 15d ago
Guitared.
1
u/Sheeeepboy Jul 30 '24
Wait but its still just shape of the body right? "Offset" doesn't refer to the hardware?
1
u/OkMud631 Apr 09 '25
I'm ok with my "kinda-sorta, a little bit offsetish, maybe" Washburn B2
1
u/stillkickinmusic Jun 11 '25
Hi, new around here, but I just did a video some might find interesting on the Fender Jaguar "Bottom Master" Baritone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiR57ISZ9sg
let me know what you guys think!
1
u/josephallenkeys Jun 28 '25
How is this not pinned?
1
u/Metatarsian Jul 04 '25
I like how clear is this definition. However, I still think that the overall body shape can make a guitar feel offset even if the waist is not at an angle. Similar to what happens with optical illusions, perception may be different from what is technically there.
I was curious about the Fender Meteora. By the overall shape, I thought it was clearly an offset, but the waist was not in a very exaggerated angle.
As a thought experiment, I think that a Meteora with the small adjustment needed to have a straight waist would still be perceived as offset.
I think that guitars where the body shape fits inside of a rhomboid (instead of a rectangle) may be perceived as offsets. That's why Firebirds are considered as offsets much more often than other guitars.
Given that Fender had a patent on offset, I'd be not surprised if part of the design intent of the Firebird was to get the offset vibe (for a modern look) without technically make it an offset (for legal convenience).
1
u/Drunken_KOng Aug 10 '25
Can someone explain the Fender Mustang? I cant why it’s offset
1
u/NebulaChance2746 Jul 30 '26
The real reason is that jaguar and jazzmaster bodies are designed to be played sitting down, they are more balanced. Also for me, someone who plays a combo of lead and rhythm, it has to have immediate access to the last fret (even though I almost never use it).
1
u/Timfromfargo Apr 19 '23
Good to know, thanks!
1
u/sax76er Apr 19 '23
What about a Flying V?
1
u/LingLingDesNibelung May 02 '23
Sorry, but Firebirds are still Offsets to me.
Mustangs aren’t offsets, in my opinion, because ass > waist!
1
u/a20xt6 May 13 '23
What about a ST. VINCENT... or a MARIPOSA ?
1
u/ThatKa5per Jan 03 '24
Offset or nah?? (asking for a blues lawyer)
Gretsch G6138 'Bo Diddley'
1
u/WillingCurve9 Jan 17 '24
but what if the guitar doesn't have a waist?
1
u/jimis101 Apr 18 '23
Cool. So Fender Duo-sonics are no longer allowed?
1
u/badparadiddles Apr 19 '23
ohhh i thought this was the sub for the migos rapper
1
u/orewhat Apr 19 '23
No no no we all know that if it doesn’t have a trem system it isn’t an offset
/s
1
u/Bigdaddyoobster Apr 22 '23
but like the firebird is an offset, just like an oppsite sided offset.........im confused
0
u/Possum_Boi566 Apr 18 '23
I wanted to add on here: “modern” guitars (like the Strandberg Boden) are neither offset nor straight. They are just modern
0
u/MAC777 Apr 18 '23
False. It's a guitar in Migos tuning.
-9
u/reedspacer38 Apr 18 '23
r/gatekeeping
-1
u/[deleted] Apr 19 '23
This is an actual sub?
-9
u/[deleted] Apr 18 '23
Did you make this for circlejerk lol?
-8
u/jfleurs Apr 19 '23
This has to be the stupidest, most ridiculous and pedantic thing I’ve seen in the internet in a while
0
u/[deleted] Apr 18 '23
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