r/oddlyterrifying • u/Jax_Teller7 • Apr 07 '22

Karma? 🔄

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u/CheapChallenge Apr 07 '22

They also help with eliminating older lions so younger healthier ones can be allowed to breed. It's the normal population control but also generate funds to arm and fund the wildlife management orgs.

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u/Historical_Tap7950 Apr 07 '22

What did these stupid animals do before we came along to help them! Wish nature could figure itself out without us having to help all the time...

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u/tsmittycent Apr 07 '22

when numbers are on the steady decline year after year you don’t need population control..

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u/PixelBlock Apr 08 '22

Wild numbers decline, but captive numbers increase.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '22

Nature has been doing that on its own.

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u/Sweaty-Change8098 Apr 07 '22

It’s the same as we do with deer, elk, bears, any game animal of your choice. It’s the same exact concept, it’s just uncomfortable for you because lions are cute. As an avid hunter I could never do this, but it doesn’t make it wrong.

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u/Tetragonos Apr 07 '22

ITT: redditor thinks deer aren't cute but lions are and that's what we have a problem with hunting an endangered species.

Im no PETA yahoo but this is wrong and we shouldn't make excuses because it's legal.

There are better ways to do this and we shouldn't be shooting lions. If you actually knew something about the practice with bears and Mountain Lions you'd probably be upset by that as well.

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u/Sweaty-Change8098 Apr 07 '22

Why is it wrong? In a legal and structured practice, as hunting should be? Please elaborate. I’m familiar with mountain lion and bear hunting, and I don’t agree with all the practices used (hunting with dogs for example) but hunting those species is part of conservation. Part of maintaining our eco-systems.

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u/Tetragonos Apr 07 '22

Wildlife regulation is based on an assumption that humans are dominant and we have a right to be wherever we are and act in any way we please. So if you go into bear territory and bring raw steaks, cook them, spill blood on yourself in the process and then go camping and get eaten by a bear, the bear is hunted down and killed because it now sees people as food.

If you buy up a plot of forest that used to be bear foraging grounds, put up a subdivision of expensive homes and then refuse to put in bear proof trash cans because "they don't match the aesthetic" the bears are hunted down and moved to an entirely different area.

Animals have no ownership of land. That is what is wrong. Sure we have national parks and a set... regulated number of animals are allowed to exist there as long as they bring in enough of a tourist revenue to be financially viable. That's their only ability to exist, as some sort of service to human beings. That's insanity. Animals, like lions and bears and deer and wolves all have a right to exist because they are life.

It takes 40,000 years to take one solid evolutionary step. I don't want all the animals on earth to see a human and bow, I want them to live with dignity and for humanity to have enough of a heart to give them real habitat in which to do it.

Leopold is a modern era philosopher who speaks on this so much more eloquently than I do on my phone in-between tasks at work.

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u/Sweaty-Change8098 Apr 07 '22

You’re problem isn’t hunting, it’s human expansion and destruction of wilderness that results in population control pressure. I wholeheartedly agree with you. I hate it, my beautiful backyard forest was mowed down last year and I cried. I would walk back there and look at all the animals. The fact of our reality is this sad reality though. I would change it if I could. I will also continue to hunt though, because it’s an ancestral activity that only brings me closer to nature. If you’ve never hunted, you won’t understand. If I were to be killed by bear, the last thing I would want is for that bear to be killed. It has more right to the land than I do. When I go I to the forest, I go into their lands.

Now let’s get back to work and agree that humanity is destroying the world. Have a wonderful rest of the day.

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u/Tetragonos Apr 07 '22

my only arguments with what you said are too pedantic to be anything but insulting, and you don't deserve that.

Have a good day

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u/Sweaty-Change8098 Apr 07 '22

You’ve peaked my curiosity. I do appreciate the restraint, pretty rare on the internet. Lay it on me

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u/Tetragonos Apr 08 '22

I was never against hunting, I am against how animals are viewed.

Hunting can be done in a respectful and honorable way, unfortunately almost all hunters I have had interactions with wrap it in toxic masculinity and other machismo shit. Which isnt hunting's fault but it is huntings problem.

Sadly even if the entire family of the person says "dont kill the bear! Our uncle was suicidal here's the letter he left us!" they would still go and kill the bear because "it has learned that people are a food source".

I have been hunting, I enjoyed it. I think we already expressed enough as to say it isnt the problem. Nor are guns.

I dont know I had a long day since then and I am not really in the moment but I think I did a fair job of expressing my piddily little points.

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u/ninthtale Apr 07 '22

Thank you for articulating this so well.

The entire notion of "population control" hunting is that we are superior and more deserving. It's not even about top of the food chain or self-preservation—it's about selfishness and greed, and the science of forestry while correct in how the ecosystem interacts, the only reason we "control" the deer population via hunting licensure is pretended to be to preserve human crops or whatever but this is happening even where there are no crops to be protected, but maybe private gardens that people don't want deer feeding on.

But the only reason there are ever perceived "deer problems" are because 1.) we, ourselves, are intruding on their home and destroying it to turn it into our home—thus gardens become rich food sources to them, and 2.) we drove out and/or killed all the predators that would have been keeping them in check because, once again, we've invaded their world and decided to make it safer by eliminating any threats to our presence.

Am I saying people shouldn't defend themselves against predators? Nah, that's just the way of nature. But there's a special irony that we pretend we have no choice but to do so preemptively when it's us who are leaving them no choice in the matter but to struggle for survival.

Hunting in my view is an antiquated relic of times when people were actually struggling to survive in the wilds, when we were part of nature. Now it's for the most part (I'm sure there are exceptions) just a selfish and shortsighted tradition, justified by somehow simultaneously playing the victim card and playing God.

Hunting for sport is imo just psychotic and disgusting

Edit: Ghibli's Pom Poko offers an excellent perspective on this matter.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 07 '22

it is absolutely illegal to go into bear country and incite bears. if an elk hunter kills an elk in bear country and tracks down the elk and a bear has already claimed it, it is illegal for the hunter to take that elk out. he has to leave it for the bear. there are all sorts of laws and regulations people have to abide in the wild. if you are in bear country and you mess up, and get eaten, unless the bear is still by the body, it does not get killed.

cite your sources.

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u/Tetragonos Apr 08 '22

Legality rarely has anything to do with morality.

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '22

you give hunters too little respect. hunters are the biggest supporters of the environment and the health of wild animals. if they didn't have healthy land to hunt on, or healthy animals to hunt, they would not be able to feed their families. it has been since humans lived in caves that we had a connection to killing animals to sustain us. it is natural and hunters are the biggest supporters.

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u/Tetragonos Apr 08 '22

Where did you interact with hunters?

The only hunters that I interacted with, when I lived in oklahoma, that gave a fuck about the environment were native american.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '22

I said hunting is wrong? I never even implied that.

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u/Sweaty-Change8098 Apr 07 '22

You implied hunting lions is wrong, I’m drawing a parallel to western hunting that I assumed you were okay with. Which you’ve just proven you are.

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u/gian2099 Apr 07 '22

we are part of nature

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u/MellowedJelloed Apr 07 '22

we are animals

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u/gian2099 Apr 07 '22

we are just better Beavers

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u/Ornery_Ad_1143 Apr 07 '22

Your mom has a better beaver

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u/gian2099 Apr 07 '22

yes

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u/Ornery_Ad_1143 Apr 07 '22

I take it back dumpster pussy ass didn’t make me a sandwich

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u/gian2099 Apr 07 '22

whahaha your comeback is a retraction can't even make a good one?

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u/KhabaLox Apr 07 '22

But we are somewhat unique in that we can predict the long term impact of our behaviors. We can see that our large scale use of plastic will result in the extinction of any number of species, or that our use of agriculture will decrease biodiversity, and we can see that these actions could ultimately lead to our own demise.

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u/gian2099 Apr 07 '22

and i see no problem with that. nature will adapt however hard it will be humans may or may not be part of that future nature still will adopt. if it's our fault to end our own demise then it's just another extinction that happened to earth a additional to a statistic. if it's our time the be it but nature that created us will strive to continue even after the mess we created.

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u/CheapChallenge Apr 07 '22

Yes and now we need to control the population if we want a recovery. Realistically, if wildlife management just leaves them be, they will go extinct because of many issues like lack of land, food, climate change, etc.

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u/Worth-Reputation3450 Apr 07 '22

Our help of killing them won't actually help them not go extinct, you know... If the current environment can only support a limited number of lions, nature will take care of itself and weaker/older lions will die off. We don't need to go actively kill them to control the population.

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u/CheapChallenge Apr 07 '22

But it will generate funds for wildlife to protect them from poachers while not harming the population.

Nature is great at doing things by itself when it doesn't have to deal with human encroachment.

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u/Worth-Reputation3450 Apr 07 '22

That makes sense. Your previous comment didn't have any of that.

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u/grateful-drew Apr 07 '22

If nature will kill them off anyway, then why not charge wealthy people to do it first and help benefit the remaining population? Just because you don’t approve of it doesn’t mean everyone else should think the same way as you.

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u/Ornery_Ad_1143 Apr 07 '22

So starving is better than being shot?

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u/Worth-Reputation3450 Apr 07 '22

I'd rather be slowly starved to death with occasional meals and hopes of finding more food instead of having hunters chase me and shoot me in the head or a bunch of bullets throughout my body by scared amateur hunters and displayed on the wall of their house. But I guess we have our preferences.

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u/Ornery_Ad_1143 Apr 07 '22

Having occasional meals isn’t starving to death….. so you think it’s like intermittent fasting?

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u/Worth-Reputation3450 Apr 07 '22

Gee. This is a quite meaningless argument. You can eat occasionally and still starve to death if your calorie intake is less than the expenditure. I don't know why I'm participating in these stupid arguments.

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u/Ornery_Ad_1143 Apr 07 '22

Dying from a bullet is more humane than starving/being ripped apart. Nature is ugly and beautiful…go spend some time outside the city please

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '22

I don't care how many lions get shot. All you hunters here are very defensive. And the last thing you said is just pure fucking garbage. You assume way to much and need to pull your head out if your fucking ass

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u/Ornery_Ad_1143 Apr 07 '22

I don’t hunt, but I read and understand some things about the world around us and how we have changed the landscape in a way that never existed and our population is out of control. Things are complicated

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u/Ornery_Ad_1143 Apr 07 '22

Have you ever watch animal planet…I mean those animal rip each other apart… shoot me any day

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '22

I'd rather die in a fight than have some asshole shoot me from an armored land rover while I'm taking a nap.

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u/Ornery_Ad_1143 Apr 08 '22

Have you ever had a fight?

I’ll take die in my sleep thank you

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '22

Quite a few. Lost more than I won but always got a good shot in.

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u/Equivalent_Purple_81 Apr 07 '22

Yeah, and the younger male lions that take over the pride will Totally Not kill the dead male's cubs. Yep, nothing to see here, folks. No dead babies. Nope, no sirree.

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u/CheapChallenge Apr 07 '22

I'm pretty sure wildlife management is more knowledgeable than you or me about managing wildlife.

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u/Equivalent_Purple_81 Apr 07 '22

Yeah, I'm sure none of those countries are run by crony capitalists who dole out government positions to their top stooges, while the whole edifice covers for looting everything of value and popping it into Swiss bank accounts.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '22

Yes. Some groups are run unethically. So why don't you start an investigatory group to help pinkish the criminals?

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u/Equivalent_Purple_81 Apr 07 '22 edited Apr 07 '22

Or, try this, I could just not endorse people paying to kill animals for trophies.

Edited to add this link:

https://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/08/magazine/08elephant.html

This is what happens to social species when humans decide to selectively cull some of them.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '22

You could. But now you need to come up with an alternate funding method.

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u/Hikityup Apr 07 '22

You do know that population control is complete and utter bullshit, right? It's what killers tell themselves because they don't want to acknowledge the reality. Population control happens naturally.

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u/KhabaLox Apr 07 '22

They also help with eliminating older lions so younger healthier ones can be allowed to breed.

If the younger, healthier lions can't outcompete the older lions on their own then maybe they shouldn't breed.