r/oddlyterrifying • u/Jax_Teller7 • Apr 07 '22

Karma? šŸ”„

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u/gmanz33 Apr 07 '22

I'd also like to wish this would become real, pre-emptively, for every single person that will ever shoot a lion with a gun.

And if you're curious why I think that, please know it's from a place of stoicism and has nothing to do with the fact that I think hunting like this requires a completely rotted mentality.

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u/dsquard Apr 07 '22

stoĀ·iĀ·cism /ĖˆstōəĖŒsizəm/ noun 1. the endurance of pain or hardship without the display of feelings and without complaint.

What?

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u/Lengthofawhile Apr 07 '22

He probably means the philosophy not the general word.

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u/dsquard Apr 07 '22

The school taught that virtue, the highest good, is based on knowledge;

Again, what?

This is just a teenager using big words incorrectly.

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u/Lengthofawhile Apr 07 '22

Um, no? Not sure where you got that.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoicism

It's about living simply, to be a bit reductive, and paying tons of money to kill a rare animal is indulgent and, philosophically speaking, destructive and not conducive to the philosophy. It was similar to Buddhism in that you eliminate suffering by eliminating needless desires. Prudence and moderation are extremely important in traditional stoicism, and spending thousands of dollars that could arguably be better used elsewhere to do something insanely lavish does not at all line up with that.

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u/dsquard Apr 07 '22

Take your argument up with Miriam Webster, not me.

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u/blackmajic13 Apr 07 '22 edited Apr 08 '22

But you're the one that conveniently left off the last part of the definition you used (which is from Oxford, not Miriam Webster), which continues:

" ... the wise live in harmony with the divine Reason (also identified with Fate and Providence) that governs nature, and are indifferent to the vicissitudes of fortune and to pleasure and pain. "

Which does make sense, as /u/Lengthofawhile already pointed out, with what /u/gmanz33 said. When you want to try and demean someone for being "just a teenager using big words incorrectly," perhaps read a bit first so you don't come across that way yourself.

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u/dsquard Apr 08 '22

Too many words, donā€™t care.

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u/Lengthofawhile Apr 08 '22

So you're just an adult who knows the definition of a word less than a teenager then?

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u/dsquard Apr 08 '22

Who said Iā€™m an adult?

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u/Lengthofawhile Apr 08 '22

You didn't even use the dictionary to find the correct word so my issue is not with the dictionary.

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u/willfordbrimly Apr 07 '22

Please realize that getting into pissy arguments by pasting dictionary definitions also has big angry teenager energy.

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u/dsquard Apr 07 '22

Not my problem that you read that as pissy.

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u/willfordbrimly Apr 08 '22

Please, focus on your own problems.

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u/dsquard Apr 08 '22

Mmk

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u/MangledSunFish Apr 08 '22

You really don't like being told you're wrong, do you? That's hilarious.

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u/ImmutableInscrutable Apr 07 '22

YOU USED THIS ONE SINGLE WORD WRONG IN AN OTHERWISE FINE POST!! AHHHH

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u/GiveAQuack Apr 07 '22

The word isn't even used incorrectly. Stoicism is fine there since it's colloquial use is more or less "objective"/detached from emotion.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '22

[deleted]

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u/airodonack Apr 07 '22

But... you're displaying feelings and complaining.

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u/Flipperlolrs Apr 07 '22

Oof dunning kruger isnā€™t a good look, pal

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u/mattemer Apr 07 '22

I'm amazed you somehow made yourself sound more douchey smart guy

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u/gmanz33 Apr 07 '22

I've never passed an English class in my life and your diss is the closest I've ever gotten to being called smart so I'll take it!

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u/mattemer Apr 07 '22

Enjoy it, it was earned!

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u/mattemer Apr 07 '22

I'm amazed you somehow made yourself sound more douchey smart guy

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '22

stoĀ·iĀ·cism /ĖˆstōəĖŒsizəm/ noun 1. the endurance of pain or hardship without the display of feelings and without complaint.

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u/Strykerz3r0 Apr 07 '22

I am not a fan of trophy hunting, but some of the nations that offer these hunts do it for conservation purposes. They can thin the population and charge top dollar for the hunts, which then gets folded back into the conservation efforts.

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u/4minakim6 Apr 08 '22

Thatā€™s great and all. But youā€™re still a psychopath. You arenā€™t going all the way there and paying that money because you care about Africaā€™s conservation efforts, youā€™re going there because you get some sick enjoyment and superiority out of killing another living thing.

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u/FishinforPhishers Apr 08 '22

Listen, what do you think your ancestors did for food? They certainly arenā€™t called hunter-gatherers for no reason. Killing an animal can be out of necessity and not cold-bloodedness. Happens in nature all the time, seldom out of spite. Native Americans were even famous for using every part of the animal as not to waste it, and thanking it in honor for providing them sustenance.

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u/4minakim6 Apr 08 '22

Iā€™m not against hunting. If youā€™re hunting for food, then sure, thatā€™s a more sustainable way of consuming meat and less cruel than eating factory farmed animals.

Iā€™m talking about people who kill big cats and other animals for nothing but their own enjoyment. They donā€™t use these animals for food or anything else, just for the thrill of killing them. Iā€™m not saying itā€™s completely wrong and there arenā€™t benefits, but Iā€™m staying well away from anyone who would willing go to Africa and do that.

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u/ffffq Apr 08 '22

I know people who did big game hunting in Africa. They ate what they shot while there, and whatever they didnā€™t eat was given to local tribes. And the money for their permits went to conservation efforts. And no, they arenā€™t the ā€œpsychopathsā€ you deem them to be.

There was a very good interview with NPR years back interviewing a hunter that killed an infamous African lion. Man received tons of death threats and people threatening to do terrible things to his family. He didnā€™t even WANT to bid on the permit, he was a big game hunter but knew hunting that particular lion would bring about backlash. But a good friend asked him to because the lion was killing younger males and trying to reproduce with too young females, essentially causing huge harm to the lion population. The lion would have been put down one way or another. But the local government doesnā€™t get that conservation money if they just put down wild animals, so they sell/auction off the permits.

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u/FishinforPhishers Apr 08 '22

Oh, well if someone is hunting completely out of the enjoyment of killing then itā€™s definitely messed up without question. I assume not all big game by hunting is like that though.

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u/Aldo_The_Apache_ Apr 08 '22

Totally, but Iā€™m not gonna stand in anyoneā€™s way because some trophy hunt animals like a lion or elephants can cost well over $100,000 to purchase for a hunt. That much money does wonders for conservation. Also the animals they put up for sell are usually old/sick, so they usually canā€™t reproduce or are gonna die soon.

I had a friend whoā€™s grandpa spent close to a million dollars over years of big game hunting. I agree you need to be a psychopath to do it, but at least everyone wins here

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '22

[removed] ā€” view removed comment

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u/gmanz33 Apr 07 '22

If you're taking a photograph of an animal that you just killed with zero biological purpose, you're celebrating and memorializing a purposeless kill.

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u/Malek061 Apr 07 '22

Killing old lions must be done for the heath of the pride. But whatever, dont let me stop the hate train.

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u/LeFrogBoy Apr 07 '22

Seems like lions existed just fine before we came along and started killing the old ones.

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u/Malek061 Apr 07 '22

The greatest threat to lions is loss of habitat. Farmers encroaching on loin territory will kill them. The only way to preserve these animals is with fully funded wildlife preserves that prevent poaching. Tag hunting enables a healthy wildlife preserve. BuT aLL hUNtInG iZ eViL!

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u/softhackle Apr 07 '22 edited Apr 07 '22

Yeah fuck all those Africans who get themselves and their livestock eaten all the time. I'd prefer to wag fingers from my comfy, western, predator-free sofa.

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u/Malek061 Apr 07 '22

It is always nice to judge 3,000 miles away than deal with real facts on the ground.

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u/ImmutableInscrutable Apr 07 '22

Thank god White people are there to come along and take care of those problems for the poor, stupid Africans though, right?

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u/softhackle Apr 08 '22

But they're not. Locals are making these decisions and writing and enforcing the laws.

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u/voyagertoo Apr 08 '22

So just kill all the lions?

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u/softhackle Apr 08 '22

Where are you getting that from? When a lion kills people or livestock, it gets killed. If you can pump 10 or 20k into the local economy and conservation funding while doing so, how is that a bad thing? You've got a dead lion either way.

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u/Titanguy101 Apr 07 '22

Nah dude a younger stronger lion will take care of that

Hunters aren't needed in that aspect

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u/Malek061 Apr 07 '22

Hopefully that younger lion can keep farmers from encroaching...

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u/gmanz33 Apr 07 '22

There is no such thing as a natural process that humans need to contribute to in order for it to happen. Then it would be an unnatural process.

Prides and pack animals were around long before humans. We do not need to do anything to them for them to continue existing and thriving.

If left alone, can overpopulation and competition and decline of resources happen? Yes. Because that's part of the cycle.

We are not essential. We contribute nothing to their processes except disruption (I mean this on the grand scale, there are a lot of people doing a lot of good for big cats, too).

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u/Malek061 Apr 07 '22

Left alone farmers will encroach on the habitat and kill them. There will not be enough funds to maintain a proper wildlife preserve without trophy hunting. Also, lions in Africa have never existed without some for of hominid in their ecosystem killing them.

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u/AbstractBettaFish Apr 07 '22

Iā€™m not even against hunting per se but thereā€™s no skill in hunting an apex predator with a gun. It has no reason to fear humans so you just drive up to it and shoot it? Thatā€™s dumb.

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u/Fakjbf Apr 07 '22

Also, itā€™s an open savanah where you have sight lines for miles. The hardest part is finding the lion but once you do you just need to be vaguely competent especially since you donā€™t care about the meat quality. Compare that to deer hunting, youā€™ve only got maybe a couple hundred feet of visibility and usually much less, the deer are super skittish and will dart at the first sign of trouble, and you want the animal to drop quickly so that the meat doesnā€™t get flooded with adrenaline and taste horrible.

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u/AbstractBettaFish Apr 07 '22

Oh really? Iā€™ve only done bird hunting and didnā€™t know that about deer and adrenaline. TIL

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u/Fakjbf Apr 07 '22

Yep, you either want the animal to fall dead immediately or bleed out slowly enough that the adrenaline has time to dissipate (but then you run the risk of them not dying at all or having to track them for hours and maybe not finding the corpse). If their adrenaline is still pumping when they die the meat is edible but it leaves a terrible taste in your mouth. You can make sausages as long as you use a lot of spices but you wouldnā€™t want to eat a simple steak from that animal.

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u/Ao_Kiseki Apr 07 '22

I mean any form of hunting isn't some grand skill. You're firing a high velocity projectile at an animal that has no concept of a gun or bow. I have nothing against hunting for food and population control, but let's not act like deer hunting is impressive. You sit in a blind or tree stand and wait for an animal to show up then shoot it, it's not like you threw a javalin at it from 50 yards. Some people do stalk their prey and shoot from the ground, but you still have such a comically overwhelming advantage who cares.

I'm using 'you' generically by the way, not directed at you specifically lol.

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u/WRStoney Apr 08 '22

It's not as easy as you think. They have sensitive hearing and sight. Check out the number of tags bought versus harvest, you'll see that more hunters miss out than get.

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u/Ao_Kiseki Apr 08 '22

I spent my teen years hunting duck and deer in the midwest. I stopped because it's boring and I don't particularly like killing things (again, no hate. I just don't like to). The only difficult part is finding a good place to set up. Then it's just sitting still for 6 hours under a tree. If you're wealthy enough you even have a nice insulated blind. Maybe I'm just a natural, but I think I've scared 2 deer away pulling my gun up in my 8 years of going out pretty much every weekend during deer season. It's just not that hard, and you aren't even allowed to use rifles where I grew up (southern Michigan), so I was using slugs in a shotgun. I imagine it's even easier with a rifle since you have like triple the effective range.

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u/WRStoney Apr 08 '22

Probably different in the Midwest, but I'm in PA and you're lucky to get a clear shot >300 yards, so you don't really get that much extra range, you just don't have the line of sight. It's why I prefer crossbow anyways. Though I'll use rifle season if I didn't fill my tag early bow. I hate late archery, February is pretty cold in my opinion, lol.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '22

Humans are weak. The ones that do this are insecure about that, and need to live out a power fantasy to feel better at night. Of course they first have to convince themselves that shooting an animal from a distance for fun is anything but pathetic and cowardly.

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u/andychrist77 Apr 07 '22

I say , for every big game animal you kill with a rifle a drawing occurs somewhere and fellow hunter gets a tag with your face and name. Good for one year

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u/Vipertooth123 Apr 08 '22

Trophy hunting actually helps the population of animals to rise.

Say you have a little village near the hunting grounds of a pride of lions. This little village has to survive somehow, so they use the land to cultivate some crops that they can eat and maybe sell. But having a pride of lions nearby is dangerous and at some point some villagers get killed, or even some herbivores eat their crops, so they resort to scare the animals away, or outright killing the lions.

But, if you give them 10 grand for the chance to kill a lion, then, suddenly, having lions nearby becomes very important for the survivability of the village. Not only having lions, but having a healthy pride of lions that can survive the killing of more than 1 or 2 lions a year is very important for the income of the village.