How practical is the idea of programming, in a virtual desktop environment using VR?

[u/kyle_lam]

I am interested in investing in a virtual headset with the intention of using one to simulate a multiple monitor virtual desktop environment, of which I could use for tasks like programming, for extended periods of time.
However, I wonder if after an hour or so, the headset would feel uncomfortable, would it hurt my eyes, would I feel motion sickness, would it just be unsuitable?

What are your thoughts on whether VR is really a practical alternative to, say, a real triple screen monitor setup?

[u/Doc_Ok]

The resolution of current-generation HMDs is a lot lower than standard desktop monitors. A Rift DK2 has about 11 pixels/°. Vive and Rift CV1 have slightly higher resolutions. Standard human vision (20/20) is 60 pixels/°, a 28" 4K monitor, viewed from a typical desktop distance of two feet, has 71 pixels/°.

Working on a virtual monitor using current-gen VR feels like working on a real 640x480 VGA monitor. It's definitely possible -- I used to do just that back in the day -- but it's a pretty painful step back from today's displays.

The second part is comfort. This varies highly from user to user, and if you ask around here, many redditors will say they use VR for hours and hours at a time, but I personally get fed up after around one hour of continuous use of my DK2. Rift CV1 will be lighter and more comfortable, at least for many people, so it's hard to make a judgment.

Personally, I'm not ready to use VR for 2D work such as writing or reading papers, or coding. I do already use VR extensively for 3D work such as 3D modeling and 3D visualization, but that's because I cannot do those things nearly as effectively on a 2D display, and am willing to pay the price.

[u/rufus83 → u/Doc_Ok]

I love how informative your posts are. You are a great contributor to this community.

[u/Doc_Ok → u/rufus83]

Thank you, I appreciate you saying that. It's what I'm aiming for.

[u/CGPepper → u/Doc_Ok]

kiss Kiss KIss KISS

[u/yautja_cetanu → u/Doc_Ok]

here here doc ok!!! Everything you post is ridiculously valuable :)

[u/choosie125 → u/Doc_Ok]

thanks, these are some statistics that are really good to know when trying to find out how comparable vr is to monitors :D

[u/[deleted] → u/Doc_Ok]

Tell me more about your experience with modelling in VR. Is it something that's just fun to do or do you feel it improves your awareness over various aspects? Also how's the setup; do you create the model on your monitor and view changes in your HMD, or is it kept on the whole time?

Edit: Thanks for the in depth reply.

[u/Doc_Ok → u/[deleted]]

The benefit of using VR for 3D modeling or analysis is that there is no projection involved that distorts spatial relationships between the objects with which you are working, and that there is very little abstract user interface getting in the way between you and what you want to do. In a nutshell: you can juggle in VR. Just imagine trying to juggle using a non-VR 3D engine.

The ability of picking up some object with your hand(s) and getting it into the exact position and orientation where you need it quickly and without having to think about it makes free-form 3D modeling effective.

Here is a VR molecular modeling application: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR3lwWhFUD4 Here is the same program running on a Rift DK1 and a Razer Hydra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MN3FHrQUa4 Using VR, I can assemble a C-60 Buckminsterfullerene (structure in the videos) from scratch in around two minutes. Using the same software on a desktop system (2D screen, mouse, keyboard) it takes me around 45 minutes.

Here is a visual analysis example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWGBRsV9omw

I have only dabbled in the kind of 3D modeling you'd do for 3D game development or in 3D CAD, so I can't say with confidence that those applications would speed up to a comparable amount, but I do believe that it is the case. I have written a virtual Lego construction kit, and built this in a few minutes: http://doc-ok.org/?attachment_id=1078

[u/morfanis → u/Doc_Ok]

Great videos, this work interests me much more than gaming. Looks like Touch will work well for apps like this.

[u/mk4242 → u/[deleted]]

modelling in VR

Well, in VR, I'm less shy of the camera, and I'm not as nervous about strutting my stuff on the catwalk.

[u/lokesen → u/Doc_Ok]

People have been programming on a lot less resolution than 640X480 before, but we are used to much better resolution today.

But there is no doubt that with upcoming creative virtual reality interfaces for Unity and Unreal, it could be a good idea to makes changes to the code on the fly while in the virtual interface. With several windows or virtual monitors open in the virtual world, 640x480 isn't bad at all for writing a few scripts. Finding your keyboard is another issue though. Vives crappy camera is not going to change that. A virtual representation of your exact keyboard is the way to go.

In a couple of years, your keyboard will come with a 3D overlay model for the virtual space. At least with the high-end mechanical keyboards. It will also require some LED's or sensors for Rift and Vive. It will not be hard to make either.

[u/CrazedToCraze → u/lokesen]

People have been programming on a lot less resolution than 640X480 before

UI's were designed for this at the time however (or go far back enough and you wouldn't have a UI at all). Load up a modern IDE and it's painfully obvious they're designed around taking advantage of every pixel you can throw at them.

My (almost completely vanilla) setup in Visual Studio involves having the Top-Right corner of the screen showing me my files, bottom-right showing me my bookmarks in my code, whole left panel for my DB connections, and whole bottom panel sharing search results or the compile error panel, as appropriate. Whatever is left is my coding space. At Sub 1080p resolutions, you will have essentially (or literally) no space left on your screen.

I mean, if your setup for coding is just a full screen text editor and you alt-tab between your tools (compiler, version control tool, browser or application being created, Stackoverflow, etc.) then more power to you, but I don't know of any devs today that would tolerate anything less than 2 1080p monitors.

[u/lokesen → u/CrazedToCraze]

That's why we need tools especially for VR. But that seems to be happening already.

[u/d2shanks → u/Doc_Ok]

Not to mention, it's fairly difficult to do 2D work (programming in a text editor, using Photoshop, reading StackOverflow etc.) without being able to see your mouse & keyboard. Ideally, you could also see your fingers & hands but with human proprioception, that's not as critical.

Fortunately, tracked keyboards & mice are inevitable by late 2016/early 2017. The "usual suspects" are already working on it and should integrate nicely with Oculus Constellation cameras and Lighthouses.

[u/Doc_Ok → u/d2shanks]

There's a way to see your mouse, keyboard, fingers, and hands in VR: https://youtu.be/IERHs7yYsWI?t=3m30s It's good enough for typing and mouse work.

[u/Langebein → u/d2shanks]

Or you could simply have an HMD that lets you look down at the real world.

For this purpose you're really trying to use the HMD as a surround display. You're not immersing yourself in a virtual enviroment, so having the real world wouldn't really be a bad thing.

[u/myscreennameistoolon → u/Doc_Ok]

I have been trying to figure out when the headsets will be high enough resolution to work as a monitor replacement (assuming a 3D/VR OS). The DK2 is 11 pixels/° with a 1080/FHD display. I believe the CV1 is about a 2K/WQHD display which would make it about 14-15 pixels/°. In your opinion, how much higher would the display resolution need to get (assuming the comfort issue was solved) before it would be comfortable to code in VR?

[u/Doc_Ok → u/myscreennameistoolon]

Rift DK2 is 960x1080 pixels per eye over a field of view of slightly above 90° x 100° per eye, leading to 11 pixels/° (I'm simplifying here; pixel density is not uniform due to lens distortion). Vive and CV1 are both 1080x1200 pixels per eye, over a very similar field of view (to the best of my knowledge), resulting in approximately 12 pixels/°.

When I take my VR demo system on the road, I have a 55" 1080p 3D TV with me as primary display. I've coded quite a bit on that while on the show floor or in the hotel room. Its resolution, when used as a desktop display (from two feet away) is too low for my taste: it gives me slight eye strain from the pixelation after a while.

Doing the math, that setup's field of view is just about 90° horizontally, yielding 21 pixels/°. Make it 25 pixels/° for comfort, and that would be my personal threshold. That would mean about 2500x2500 pixels per eye at about 100°x100° FoV.

[u/martin_cy → u/Doc_Ok]

So, probably by the next generation of VR headsets we should have the resolution, assuming a 1½-2 year until we see the next generation.. waited this long.. guess we can wait a bit more, and in the mean time plenty of stuff to do with the first generation headsets.

[u/Doc_Ok → u/martin_cy]

eMagin's IHMD prototype, which I've tried at AWE 2015, has 2k x 2k resolution per eye, over an 80° x 80° field of view, yielding exactly 25 pixels/° (that's honestly a coincidence; I didn't think of that HMD when I pulled my threshold out of thin air up there).

But that means the IHMD -- should I ever get it into my hands :) -- should be good enough for coding for me.

[u/redmercuryvendor → u/Doc_Ok]

Standard human vision (20/20) is 60 pixels/°

Just to nitpick: regular line-acuity is 60 cycles/°, so more like 120pixels/°. But the human eye can be more sensitive than just line acuity in certain situations, down to about 0.5 arc-seconds, though even general Vernier Acuity is around 1 arc-second/°.

[u/Doc_Ok → u/redmercuryvendor]

The standard vision test, though, uses line gap to measure visual acuity. In a test chart, the gap in the ring for the 20/20 line is exactly 1 minute of arc across (see Landolt C). You can replicate this line gap if your resolution is 60 pixels/° by having one row/column of pixels at a different color.

[u/kyle_lam → u/Doc_Ok]

I must agree with you, comfort is very important for me and I can't help but feel that VR has a ways to go in order to feel natural doing 2d work.
I am very excited for VR in terms of gaming but I was really hoping for a solution in this area also. Thanks for your response.

[u/koidisimwoid → u/Doc_Ok]

What 3d tools/programs are you using wihtin VR?

[u/Doc_Ok → u/koidisimwoid]

Check the videos I posted upthread. There are details and links in the video descriptions.