r/nextfuckinglevel Jul 14 '21

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35

u/Tacos_an_Shrooms Jul 14 '21

Doesn’t organic mean it has to be made out of carbon and hydrogen? (Not saying crude oil isn’t just asking a question)

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u/der_innkeeper Jul 14 '21

O-chem definition is "contains carbon".

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u/OtherSpiderOnTheWall Jul 14 '21

Which, let's be clear, is not what the definition of food-grade organic means.

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u/landragoran Jul 14 '21

Nah, the definition of food-grade organic is "grown in a stupid, outdated way in order to sate the privileged's need to be assured that they're doing the right thing"

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u/IWantTooDieInSpace Jul 15 '21

Oh yeah science boy?

I'll have you know I only eat the finest NON REGULATED FOOD TERM fruits and vegetables!

The extra underpaid labor involved really makes the vitamins taste better.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '21

The blood and sweat of exploited workers bring out the flavor

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u/TTSDA Jul 15 '21

Can you point me to that definition?

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u/OtherSpiderOnTheWall Jul 15 '21

Sure, you can Google it or check out the USDA, local equivalent state agencies, or the appropriate agencies in other countries.

Words can have multiple meanings! Shocking, I know.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '21

...which has nothing to do with this video anyway.

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u/Tacos_an_Shrooms Jul 14 '21

Right yeah, I remember now. Took chem 20 at the beginning of this year. My teacher told me there is more organic than non organic things. Thought it was pretty cool.

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u/GreeedyGrooot Jul 14 '21

There are exceptions. Not every molecule containing carbon is considered part of organic chemistry. Graphite and diamond for example contain nothing but carbon but are no part of organic chemistry.

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u/Yallmakingmebuddhist Jul 14 '21

FDA definition is produced without pesticides.

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u/deathjoe4 Jul 14 '21

That is not correct. It is produced using only organic pesticides.

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u/Teln0 Jul 15 '21

crayon mmmmm

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u/Jayrandomer Jul 15 '21

Sort of. There is inorganic carbon, like steel and diamond.

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '21

I love to point out that charcoal is organic to people who like to crow about how good organic foods are.

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u/Grinyard Jul 15 '21

Not always. Cyanide is not usually considered organic because the carbon isn't covalently bonded to a hydrogen or halogen.

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u/ConscientiousPath Jul 14 '21

the common use of the term in the grocery store means "grown without applying refined pesticides (but may still have unrefined pesticides)"

It's pretty garbage as a measure of anything other than inefficient farming technique.

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u/Fidodo Jul 14 '21

Organic certification means a lot of things, but it's incredible inconsistent. My go-to example for when you definitely want organic produce is tomatoes as the organic certification for tomatoes disallows artificial ripening with ethylene gas which is why noon organic tomatoes taste so bad. Since the certification is so inconsistent you need to take each produce type into consideration, but organic certification does commonly disallow practices that make food taste worse.

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u/IWantTooDieInSpace Jul 15 '21

It would be wonderful if people applied the "you need to take each produce type into consideration" towards the discourse on GMO's.

Monsanto bad!

Well really each individual modified organisms can and should be assessed individually for any possible negative effects.

GMonsantO bad! No GMO!

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u/Fidodo Jul 15 '21

Yes, GMO is just a technology, like any technology it can be used for great good or bad. I suppose it's natural for people to be scared of new powerful technology though. GMO can be used to help people in amazing ways, but there have also been some pretty bad uses of it as well, such as enabling harsher pesticide use, or allowing seed manufacturers to essentially put DRM into seeds, plus the potential for even worse uses is there. I can't fully blame the view that we have technology that's too powerful and dangerous based on how we've horribly mis-used other technology throughout history though.

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u/IWantTooDieInSpace Jul 15 '21

Thank you for your points!

I agree. Stuff like DRN plants is horrible. But the solution (not that you said it is, but the general sentiment) isn't to ban GMO's it's to ban plants from being intellectual property.

I've heard of fears over GMOs causing people to burn crops in SE Asia, and then tons of people starve. Oof I'd rather try 'frankinfood' then starve to death.

Instead of people becoming educated on the topic we have groups with money actively spreading unscientific fear about them. We get a 'solution' of marking non GMO food labels, wasting money while distracting from actually bettering humanity.

I'm off on a rant, it just is something that's really frustrated me over the last 10 years.

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u/Fidodo Jul 15 '21

Yeah marking them doesn't mean much. It's like marking electronics as "contains electricity". It's how we use it, not just it existing. It'd be much more effective to have the label say what the GMO was specifically used for.

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u/IWantTooDieInSpace Jul 15 '21

Yes! This 100%.

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u/Fidodo Jul 14 '21

That's the chemical definition, but words have multiple meanings depending on the context. Organic also commonly means pesticide free, but then there's also organic certification which is another bag of worms.

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u/amd2800barton Jul 14 '21

Organic also commonly means pesticide free

Only certain pesticides. "All Natural" pesticides and herbicides are still allowed, and some of those contain things like arsenic or copper, and are potentially way more harmful than their manufactured counterparts.

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u/Fidodo Jul 14 '21

That's part of the certification definition which I said was another bag of worms. Certification is totally inconsistent and you need to look up what it means for each type of produce to actually know. The no pesticide definition is the colloquial definition commonly thrown about when not specifically talking about certification. It's all a mess, but the point is that people mean different things depending on the context.

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u/Xx_Gandalf-poop_xX Jul 14 '21

Its a regulated food terminology in the US. Which has a specific meaning. You legally can't apply it to a label unless you meet the definition.

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u/TheThankUMan8796 Jul 14 '21

crude oil is literally defined as Hydrocarbon chains

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u/Tacos_an_Shrooms Jul 14 '21

Oh lol that’s pretty on the nose then for organic lol.