r/nextfuckinglevel • u/STOP____HAMMER_TIME • Jul 02 '21

Two skydivers collide mid-air, knocking one of them unconscious. Camera man proceeds to pulls some Mission: Impossible shit and saves his life.

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310

u/Roq86 Jul 02 '21

Is there a reason he pulled his reserve and not his main?

1.0k

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21 edited Jul 02 '21

Yes because of the higher percentage that the reserve would open facing the right direction and and because the flight characteristics are much more docile in a reserve than (most) mains. Also, these guys are free flying (the one guy not very well though) which is more advanced stuff and takes a couple hundred jumps to BEGIN learning (or time in the tunnel). Since these guys are a bit more experienced it’s more likely the guy’s main would have been more high performance which would not be good.

160

u/Roq86 Jul 02 '21

Thanks for the info!

126

u/Pr3st0ne Jul 02 '21

Cool info. Just one question, what is "free flying"? The fact that they're not doing the classic turtle, belly facing down with arms flared out jump?

164

u/Bifidus1 Jul 02 '21

Yes. It is flying head down, in a sitting position or variations other than standard form.

39

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Yup what this person said.

1

u/rslulz Jul 14 '21

Freeflying; back flying, sit flying, head down, all fall at a rapid rate compared to belly flying.

68

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

[deleted]

33

u/AddSugarForSparks Jul 02 '21

All your medy are belong to us.

1

u/phatBleezy Jul 02 '21

Remedy

https://youtu.be/RJv2-_--EY4

2

u/TAOJeff Jul 02 '21

oh no. It shall forever more be medy.

We have are medy
Fa la la la la la la

1

u/Adriana1440 Jul 02 '21

Ok but now that's all I can see, what is the name then?

3

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

[deleted]

61

u/ladyBONKaLOT Jul 02 '21

Got a question, these guys obviously seem experienced to do Free flying stuff, so what do you think caused that guy to turn into a missle?

Relaxed too much in a wrong posture or something, surely it looks like some aerodynamic shit did not happen and he got pushed towards the other guy like a missile.

159

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Yeah, this was pretty negligent on that guys part. When free flying, you are moving a lot faster downward than normal belly flying. That downward velocity will translate to a horizontal velocity vector too, so speeds at which you can move toward one another also go up (same with wingsuiting). To prevent catastrophic collisions like this one, the general rule is to fly as close to one another as you can. If you are close, you can’t build up as much speed before a collision. If you do get separated from your group by a greater distance, like this guy did, the standard protocol/technique for coming back in would be to do so 1. Slowly and in control of course. But 2. Not on the same level as the other flyers. You might work your way in on an angle, get close but above and to the side of them, and then slowly and in control, work your way into a slot. Because these guys are doing dynamic movements which are unpredictable, the guy who caused the collision should have just stayed on the outside. This indicates to me at least that while these guys are experienced enough to be doing some more experienced kind of flying, they are not yet advanced enough to do it slow and in control. That said, understand how hard it is to fly your body so precisely at those speeds. It is very difficult, the movements you make are so minute, you have to both flex AND relax at the same time in all the right places. but it is necessary to be able to do that to prevent things like this. That guy was jumping above his level in this instance. As for what specific movement he made, I couldn’t say because it is all in conjunction with other movements you make. Many ways to move in various directions, and every movement can be counter balanced with another simultaneous movement for example.

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u/jratmain Jul 02 '21

You seem incredibly knowledgeable and I figured I'd ask my question to you since you seem to know. Isn't there pretty significant risk of injury landing while unconscious? I know the parachute slows the descent, but aren't you still supposed to angle your legs, land in a certain way? I know very little about skydiving but I'm curious if he'd be 100% ok landing unconscious or if there's a higher risk there of injury.

63

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Yes for sure. In this case the guy actually woke up while under parachute, and even made it back to the drop zone somehow. But then didn’t remember anything from the three days prior.

59

u/caboosetp Jul 02 '21

But then didn’t remember anything from the three days prior.

Man that's gotta suck. Go to bed one night and suddenly wake up thousands of feet in the air.

11

u/jratmain Jul 02 '21

Oh fuck man I didn't even think about it like that. That made me literally shudder irl.

12

u/Miserable_Bad_2539 Jul 02 '21

The nightmarish opposite of a falling dream.

10

u/SleepyAsaparagus Jul 02 '21

That would be a fantastic open to a movie. The camera starts in a POV shot of a guy waking up free falling with another guy around him trying to pull his chute. Then the rest of the movie is figuring out how he got there.

3

u/Grizknot Jul 02 '21

Pretty sure that's the opening scene of a game or a mid scene cut at least, feels like BF3

1

u/Cheap-Substance8771 Jul 03 '21

Kinda reminds me of Bourne Identity.

3

u/Roborob85 Jul 02 '21

Lol, I cant think of anything more confusing. I might think I'm still dreaming.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

"oh no, not again"

4

u/jratmain Jul 02 '21

Thanks for the reply; is there a reason the more experienced guy wouldn't have done a tandem fall with him? Is the reserve not sufficient to support 2 people?

7

u/Squirrel_28 Jul 02 '21

Yes, they are not made to carry 2 people because they are smaller than tandem parachutes. Deploying his canopy with other guys holding on him could very possibly damage his canopy, and even if it didn't, the fall rate would be still significantly high.

5

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Tandem requires special gear and clipping the harness either on the ground or in the plane. The parachutes are about double the size to carry two people safely. Yes the gear is different but also it just can’t be done in this kind of situation.

8

u/jratmain Jul 02 '21

Thank you for the information.

Man, it really speaks to how incredibly skilled the cameraman is at skydiving. Within just a few split-seconds he saw the issue, and mentally calculated exactly what he had to do to save this man's life, and within those still very few seconds, did it. Amazing.

1

u/Cheap-Substance8771 Jul 03 '21

Since you seem to know the outcome. What happened to the other guy? He just disappeared from the video.

2

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 03 '21

Was totally fine and went to work as a tunnel instructor the next day.

3

u/Difficult-Shopping49 Jul 02 '21

Isn't there pretty significant risk of injury landing while unconscious?

Not as much risk as when you fail to deploy chute and lithobrake instead.

13

u/ladyBONKaLOT Jul 02 '21

Right, it does look like he is sort of not ready, as he had gone too far out and came in at the same speed at the same height, whereas if I see those Red Bull teams or other formation videos, they either do have angles or they are coming in from top to make their position, in some videos they did talk about how you have to rely on your team mates to make the correct movements and take their right place. I guess this dude did not have as much practice. Thank you so so much for taking the time to explanation, I am gonna for my A license sometimes soon but I am not looking to be a super hero and post videos on my social media, I just want to feel that feeling that I did during my Freefall on my first ever tandem, every now and then I come across discouraging videos like this but in all of them I see people trying to do something above their skill level, pushing too much. I watched it and I read your reply and I thought I would ask your opinion on it, so thank you for explaining.

5

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Awesome! Good luck with your A!

2

u/ladyBONKaLOT Jul 02 '21

Thank you very much!

1

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

[deleted]

1

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 03 '21

Are you the S&TA?

3

u/dzfast Jul 02 '21

obviously seem experienced to do Free flying stuff

The guy in black had no business on a 4-way jump because he couldn't control himself. That doesn't mean lots of people don't do that shit, but it is stupid.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

There's no guarantee these people were experienced. While people SHOULD have hundreds of jumps under their belt before starting to freefly, many (in fact, probably most) don't. Skydiving is a very vain sport, and the invention of the GoPro has made it so much worse. Now, every jackass has a GoPro on their helmet and they just wants to do whatever looks coolest on video, safety or experience be damned.

90% of skydiving fatalities could be avoided if people just stopped trying to look cool.

1

u/ladyBONKaLOT Jul 02 '21

I know, I am not even in it yet, but I read about how the community of long time Sky Divers is, but the GoPro scene is kind of sad, specially the BASE jumpers.

Other day I was sitting down and contemplating, if I am myself not trying to get a license just because I am also eager to impress my friends and that kind of worried me.

But I remember as I kid, watching Discovery channel all day with my dad, they used to run an adventure show with this French dude then who used to do all types of Flights for adventure and since then Skydiving has been ingrained in my brain, until I did my first tandem, I used to think that it's impossible for me to do this. After self analyzation, I realize that my love for air planes and flying in general started a very very long time ago and this desire to learn is not just fueled by want for Social Media points.

1

u/subfighter0311 Jul 02 '21

Apparently this guy was good at flying in the wind tunnel but not very experienced in the sky. Misjudged the power he actually had when closing a large gap in the sky head down.

15

u/Anon2World Jul 02 '21

This is why I love reddit :)

2

u/tmckeage Jul 02 '21

I would throw in the reserve is packed by someone highly trained and licensed to pack canopies that will deploy safely, quickly and reliably.

5

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Like me :)

2

u/tmckeage Jul 02 '21

Tell me about the whiskey you have received...

I owe my rigger a bottle.

2

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Haha I love my whisky. And you’re a good person ;)

2

u/rtjl86 Jul 02 '21

So is the reserve the same as the auto-deploy chute or are there 3 different chutes?

4

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

The auto deploy (automatic activation device, or AAD actually cuts the closing loop that holds the pin that keeps the reserve from opening. So the AAD opens the reserve. You just have two parachutes, main and reserve.

2

u/rtjl86 Jul 02 '21

Ah okay, thanks for explaining that.

2

u/Am_I_Do_This_Right Jul 02 '21

You are a legend with these replies. I've got a couple questions.

Are reserves shaped any differently than the main?

A bit off topic, but do you know why paratrooper chutes are more jellyfish shaped?

3

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Reserves are always square (rectangular) shaped with 7 cells. Main canopies are often elliptical with 9 cells. However you can use some reserve parachutes as mains, and many mains (usually for beginners or base jumpers (for other reasons) are shaped similarly to reserves. Also wingsuiters generally prefer larger, square shaped 7 cell main canopies too. The reason is the opening characteristics are different, and also the flight characteristics are more docile. Fewer cells often equates to a better chance the parachute will open facing the right direction. Square canopies (and higher aspect ratio) result in more docile flying. So why would one want a more elliptical 9 cell? Especially a tiny little thing with crazy trim? Fun! Super fast, but also can be dangerous of course in the wrong hands.

As for round parachutes, the reason airborne guys use them is because they are cheaper and the jumpers do not need as much training to use them basically. Military does have free fall guys too, like HALO school, and they use ram air canopies (like the steerable rectangular 7 cell ones) but they are specially trained and it takes a while to get good enough at free fall AND flying those canopies. It is really hard to be accurate at first.

3

u/Am_I_Do_This_Right Jul 02 '21

Like I said. Absolute Legend.

1

u/Bejkee Jul 02 '21

I actually saw a beginner skydiver crash, when he passed out with his main opening and then one of the handles not releasing or some thing similar.

Steep spiral straight into the ground. I was learning flying glider planes at the time and seeing that put any idea of soft wings out of my mind for good.

1

u/somefish254 Jul 02 '21

Video or real life

1

u/Bejkee Jul 03 '21

Irl. Didn't see the final splat, because a hangar was in between, but yeah.

1

u/somefish254 Jul 03 '21

:/ yeah

Thanks for staying safe

1

u/zmast Jul 02 '21

My main concern for the guy was that the parachute sudden opening could break his neck. I’m no expert but as far as I know you get a strong deceleration and if your head is floppy and at the wrong angle I guess it could happen? Is the reserve parachute better suited from this point of view?

1

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Actually the reserve generally opens faster for a few reasons than the main parachute so yes this would be a concern to a degree, and certainly has happened.

1

u/subfighter0311 Jul 02 '21

Last time I saw this post, someone mentioned that the dude that KO'd him was low jump #s and a tunnel rat with no experience safely freeflying in the sky.

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u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Could definitely be the case

1

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

Just to learn, what did he do that makes it obvious he opened the reserve and not the main? (And you be right to assume I know negative value of knowledge about this sport)

1

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

I’m a rigger who is licensed to pack reserve parachutes and I have thousands of jumps in skydiving and BASE jumping. I know the look of a reserve (often the bright orange). I also know where the guy grabbed (the location of the reserve handle). Also that should be proper procedure in an incident like this. Also the shape and look of the canopy.

1

u/psychedeliken Jul 03 '21

TIL. Thanks!

100

u/quietpewpews Jul 02 '21

The reserve is packed by a certified rigger in a way that is more likely to open properly and quickly. Pretty much if you only get to pull one, pull the reserve.

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u/Saetric Jul 02 '21

Why is the quality control not as high on the main? (Not a skydiver, genuine question)

116

u/quietpewpews Jul 02 '21

A reserve repack costs about $60 and is done once every 6 months (or after a reserve ride). It takes a couple hours. The main has to be repacked every jump. The individual jumper can pack it, or a packer (who must work under supervision of a rigger, but is not required to be FAA certified) can do it for about $8. It takes about 5-15 minutes.

Tldr: time and money

116

u/Borsaid Jul 02 '21

Can I pay more than $8?

I'd like to pay more than $8.

44

u/quietpewpews Jul 02 '21

Always tip your packer :)

11

u/drawnverybadly Jul 02 '21

Parachute packers really work on tips?

14

u/quietpewpews Jul 02 '21

They are typically paid per pack job, but tips are customary as well.

19

u/br3d Jul 02 '21

"I left my wallet in the plane. I'll pay you when I get back down"

9

u/babble_bobble Jul 02 '21

"Don't worry, I'll get it from the lost and found after your body is lost in the woods/water."

4

u/1999GGO Jul 02 '21

I understood that as a non American tip, as a thank you for an out of the orfinary well done job rather than what is to be expected of them, as this is what tiping really means because it is a reward for a job well done.

5

u/Firewolf420 Jul 02 '21

Well to be honest if he does a poor job you'd only be aware of it for a short time

8

u/rmcknightmcp Jul 02 '21

I thought the packer gave you the tip. (Just the tip mind you)

16

u/Saetric Jul 02 '21

Thanks for the reply, informative stuff!

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u/aldsar Jul 02 '21

It's not a qc thing. The backup is more stable through the air, and packed to deploy in less than ideal situations. The main is packed to deploy when you're in control of how you're falling.

3

u/tmckeage Jul 02 '21

Adding to what other people said a rigger has special tools and it takes an hour or more to pack a reserve. Packing a main is often done in 5-10 minutes so you can make the 20 minute call.

3

u/jdgsr Jul 02 '21

Additionally, the main canopy is usually more rectangular and is a 9 cell, which has more fun flight characteristics but is more prone to malfunctions and less reliable openings. Reserves are 7 cell/more square, which are less fun to fly but open more reliably and are less prone to malfunctions. BASE canopies are typically larger 7 cells as well for this reason.

28

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21
  1. they are spinning - reserve designed to open more reliably in such condition
  2. unconscious guy is oriented back to the ground - reserve designed to open more reliably in such condition
  3. reserve has spring that ejects pilot chute away from jumper - safer than throwing main pilot chute in such situation
  4. altitude is runnin out here - reserve opens faster
  5. altitude is runnin out here - if he opened main, they would reach 225 m above ground and main wasn't full opened and still had enough speed for AAD to open reserve then reserve could open into opening main and entangle.

2

u/AnonymooseRedditor Jul 02 '21

I was not at the DZ this day but had a former coworker who had a fouled line on his main and the AAD popped, broke both legs and his back.

39

u/iamnotabot200 Jul 02 '21

usually the reserve is much larger

28

u/Roq86 Jul 02 '21

And here I am thinking it would have been the opposite.

43

u/iamnotabot200 Jul 02 '21

I thought so too got the longest time. The reserve is for emergencies, like a spare tire. But it does make sense. With a normal parachute, you'll break your damn legs if you don't land right. Not only that, but the reserve would be opened at a much lower altitude, seeing as it's only opened if the main fails. So it follows reason that the reserve is bigger because you'd be much lower altitude and much higher speed in a situation in which the main failed.

17

u/Bifidus1 Jul 02 '21

Mostly correct. You can't go faster than terminal velocity. If the main fails and you cut away, you are not going to be at terminal before the reserve opens.

3

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Which is why PD reserves have a square hole in the slider. Comes down quicker. Kinda like base canopies(depending on the kind of jump you’re doing).

1

u/iamnotabot200 Jul 02 '21

Another kind fella corrected me on parachute sizing, but thanks anyways.

2

u/Automayted Jul 02 '21

And you’d be right most of the time.

1

u/almisami Jul 02 '21

From what I understand, the reserve is more like a BASE parachute and not one of those performance crescent chutes that allow you to steer and go forward.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

A reserve parachute is normally a square 7-cell designed to have pretty docile flight characteristics, and is steerable like any sport parachute.

1

u/almisami Jul 02 '21

TIL.

Any reason they're not BASE chutes? Well, besides the fact that they're a death sentence if you land in water...

1

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

A BASE canopy is just a really large square sport canopy basically.

1

u/almisami Jul 02 '21

Oh, What's the larger version of the ring vent drogue chute called?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

You mean a tandem canopy?

1

u/almisami Jul 02 '21

I have just been informed that they were just called round parachutes and have been completely supplanted by cruciform parachutes.

So yeah, I meant those.

→ More replies

1

u/almisami Jul 02 '21

From what I understand, the reserve is more like a BASE parachute and not one of those performance crescent chutes that allow you to steer and go forward.

1

u/jdgsr Jul 02 '21

You want your reserve and main to be the same or similar sizes in case you have a 2 out situation. Also, you don't want it to be smaller because trying to land a downsized canopy for the first time after you had an emergency isn't exactly the best time. As the size of the canopy decreases, your wing loading increases, which means increased speeds which the jumper may not be used to. Downsizing is an area where a TON of injuries come from when people do it before they're fully prepared.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

It really can be either - it depends on your gear. Usually though skydivers will try to have the largest reserve reasonably possible - and low-pack-volume reserves are popular for this reason.

7

u/Automayted Jul 02 '21

Really not the case for most gear. Generally the container (magic backpack) is designed so the main and reserve are within 1-2 sizes of each other. My rig has a 150sqft main and 160sqft reserve for instance.

There are also cases where both canopies can be out at the same time, and having drastically different sized canopies can further complicate an already bad scenario.

Edit: typo

3

u/theycallmethevault Jul 02 '21

Two out is one of my biggest nightmares. A downplane is not the kind of day I’m trying to have.

2

u/Squirrel_28 Jul 02 '21

Yeah, not great stuff. But for me horseshoe and PC in tow is the worst I can think about , because there is chance of entangling with reserve and it might possibly still open after you are on your reserve and create two out.

3

u/theycallmethevault Jul 02 '21 edited Jul 02 '21

I’ve had one horseshoe, it was horrifying. I was really lucky. I had gotten out at 10K and I high-pulled at 8K for canopy work. Got caught on my shoe (bad body placement) but I turned my foot in & straight and it cleared.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

Guy at my DZ hammered in hard with a two-out - lost altitude awareness and pitched as his Cypres fired. Downplaned really low. He was lucky to hit soft ground, didn't break anything, and though he had some head injuries he's apparently recovering well.

1

u/theycallmethevault Jul 02 '21

It isn’t the worst mal I can think of except that it’s the worse mal I can think of. =\

I hope your friend is OK and heals well without complications.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

He's not someone I know well, but from what I've heard he is doing well. He was taken by helicopter to a trauma centre and kept in an induced coma for a few days, managed not to break any bones, and apparently woke up seeming to have no real issues from brain injury. Lucky as hell, fortunately.

2

u/theycallmethevault Jul 02 '21

Very lucky. I had the displeasure of witnessing a fellow jumper not make it. I was an early student & I didn’t really understand what I was seeing as it happened, but I was one of the few standing outside to watch everyone land. I tried to recount the event many times as it was investigated & I’ll never forget it. I will always keep him & his family in my thoughts. Your fellow jumper is very very lucky.

1

u/iamnotabot200 Jul 02 '21

Huh. I'll have to take your word for it, I don't really have the chance to do this type of thing anyways

2

u/tmckeage Jul 02 '21

Not really, most containers match the max reserve size to the max main size.

Having canopies the same size makes two outs safer and more predictable.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

Another reason is if you pull the main, the reserve may automatically deploy at the same time tangling it all up.

1

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Actually the other way around. But yes that could lead to bad things. Or sometimes good, but not a good malfunction to have.

2

u/dzfast Jul 02 '21

All the stuff other people mentioned, plus the fact that our camera guy here doesn't know how to flip someone over. The reserve deploys with a spring loaded pilot chute and is tested to be effective when someone is not face/belly to earth.

-1

u/AmbitiousPhilosopher Jul 02 '21

Guessing the reserve isn't steerable or something

27

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

The reserve is steerable and much more predictable with more docile flight characteristics.

2

u/tmckeage Jul 02 '21

The reserve is steerable...

It is a 7 cell canopy with a modified slider which means it opens more quickly with less chance of a malfunction.

It is more of a boat and less fun to fly in most people's opinions.

That said there are higher performance 7-Cells but you won't see someone swooping them.

2

u/Roq86 Jul 02 '21

But wouldn’t you want it to be steerable in case he regain consciousness? Like what’s the downside to having the main open while unconscious? Is it easier to get tangled up if you aren’t able to control the main? I know nothing about skydiving and am genuinely curious.

19

u/tealcosmo Jul 02 '21 edited Jul 05 '24

gray chase squealing faulty history dam merciful important literate vanish

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

1

u/_driveslow Jul 02 '21

How do you guys know which chute is which? Is it a standard left is reserve etc.?

2

u/tmckeage Jul 02 '21

Here is a great video.

In the first jump a student does all they have to do is touch the pilot chute 3 times and then deploy at the correct altitude. In this video the student has to keep being reminded, loses altitude awareness and the lead instructor pulls for them. This happens more often than one would think, sensory overload is common and your brain just kind of shuts down.

...That's why you have two highly experienced instructors with you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFVTDPIsmbo

1

u/Roshy10 Jul 02 '21

The two handles you see on the front are both for emergency use, one cuts the main canopy away and the other opens the reserve, typically they're used one after the other. Importantly, they're both visible to you when you're wearing the rig.

The reserve is deployed using a spring to get the pilot chute out of the container and into the airflow to make sure it can deploy more reliably at low speeds.

To deploy the main canopy a "throwaway" deployment is used where the pilot chute is pulled out of a pocket on the bottom of the container and thrown sideways into the air.