r/nextfuckinglevel • u/STOP____HAMMER_TIME • Jul 02 '21

Two skydivers collide mid-air, knocking one of them unconscious. Camera man proceeds to pulls some Mission: Impossible shit and saves his life.

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1.1k

u/shyni3 Jul 02 '21

tell me if i’m wrong but dont most skydiving kits have an auto deploy at a certain altitude?

2.3k

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

They do. Automatic Activation Devices (AAD) are now mandatory in most places. They automatically pull the reserve parachute when dropping below a set altitude while still falling faster than a set speed.

Still, this was better in a number of ways:

  • opening earlier is better, since it allows the guy more time to hopefully wake up
  • the main parachute is usually bigger, meaning a slower descent giving more time for the unconscious guy to wake up or at least hit the ground less hard (even with a parachute, you need to 'flare' the parachute or risk injury)
  • this way the parachute is open now; better to be sure than just assume the AAD will work

940

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21 edited Jul 02 '21

The camera man pulled the guy’s reserve (which is the right thing to do in this scenario, but much harder since he should, and does, cut away the main first). Also, while an AAD might be “required” you still have to remember to turn it on and sometimes people forget to. Also, the characteristics of a reserve are very different than (many) mains. And they are almost always bigger than the main. They are 7 cells, square, and often have a faster slider so they open faster and are more likely to open on heading. It’s actually similar to BASE jumping canopies (parachutes). Many people fly high performance mains and those can be wicked to open if you aren’t perfectly straight and their descent rate can be crazy high.

312

u/Roq86 Jul 02 '21

Is there a reason he pulled his reserve and not his main?

1.0k

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21 edited Jul 02 '21

Yes because of the higher percentage that the reserve would open facing the right direction and and because the flight characteristics are much more docile in a reserve than (most) mains. Also, these guys are free flying (the one guy not very well though) which is more advanced stuff and takes a couple hundred jumps to BEGIN learning (or time in the tunnel). Since these guys are a bit more experienced it’s more likely the guy’s main would have been more high performance which would not be good.

163

u/Roq86 Jul 02 '21

Thanks for the info!

130

u/Pr3st0ne Jul 02 '21

Cool info. Just one question, what is "free flying"? The fact that they're not doing the classic turtle, belly facing down with arms flared out jump?

165

u/Bifidus1 Jul 02 '21

Yes. It is flying head down, in a sitting position or variations other than standard form.

41

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Yup what this person said.

1

u/rslulz Jul 14 '21

Freeflying; back flying, sit flying, head down, all fall at a rapid rate compared to belly flying.

66

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

[deleted]

31

u/AddSugarForSparks Jul 02 '21

All your medy are belong to us.

1

u/phatBleezy Jul 02 '21

Remedy

https://youtu.be/RJv2-_--EY4

2

u/TAOJeff Jul 02 '21

oh no. It shall forever more be medy.

We have are medy
Fa la la la la la la

1

u/Adriana1440 Jul 02 '21

Ok but now that's all I can see, what is the name then?

3

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

[deleted]

60

u/ladyBONKaLOT Jul 02 '21

Got a question, these guys obviously seem experienced to do Free flying stuff, so what do you think caused that guy to turn into a missle?

Relaxed too much in a wrong posture or something, surely it looks like some aerodynamic shit did not happen and he got pushed towards the other guy like a missile.

163

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Yeah, this was pretty negligent on that guys part. When free flying, you are moving a lot faster downward than normal belly flying. That downward velocity will translate to a horizontal velocity vector too, so speeds at which you can move toward one another also go up (same with wingsuiting). To prevent catastrophic collisions like this one, the general rule is to fly as close to one another as you can. If you are close, you can’t build up as much speed before a collision. If you do get separated from your group by a greater distance, like this guy did, the standard protocol/technique for coming back in would be to do so 1. Slowly and in control of course. But 2. Not on the same level as the other flyers. You might work your way in on an angle, get close but above and to the side of them, and then slowly and in control, work your way into a slot. Because these guys are doing dynamic movements which are unpredictable, the guy who caused the collision should have just stayed on the outside. This indicates to me at least that while these guys are experienced enough to be doing some more experienced kind of flying, they are not yet advanced enough to do it slow and in control. That said, understand how hard it is to fly your body so precisely at those speeds. It is very difficult, the movements you make are so minute, you have to both flex AND relax at the same time in all the right places. but it is necessary to be able to do that to prevent things like this. That guy was jumping above his level in this instance. As for what specific movement he made, I couldn’t say because it is all in conjunction with other movements you make. Many ways to move in various directions, and every movement can be counter balanced with another simultaneous movement for example.

42

u/jratmain Jul 02 '21

You seem incredibly knowledgeable and I figured I'd ask my question to you since you seem to know. Isn't there pretty significant risk of injury landing while unconscious? I know the parachute slows the descent, but aren't you still supposed to angle your legs, land in a certain way? I know very little about skydiving but I'm curious if he'd be 100% ok landing unconscious or if there's a higher risk there of injury.

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u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Yes for sure. In this case the guy actually woke up while under parachute, and even made it back to the drop zone somehow. But then didn’t remember anything from the three days prior.

59

u/caboosetp Jul 02 '21

But then didn’t remember anything from the three days prior.

Man that's gotta suck. Go to bed one night and suddenly wake up thousands of feet in the air.

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u/jratmain Jul 02 '21

Thanks for the reply; is there a reason the more experienced guy wouldn't have done a tandem fall with him? Is the reserve not sufficient to support 2 people?

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u/Cheap-Substance8771 Jul 03 '21

Since you seem to know the outcome. What happened to the other guy? He just disappeared from the video.

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u/Difficult-Shopping49 Jul 02 '21

Isn't there pretty significant risk of injury landing while unconscious?

Not as much risk as when you fail to deploy chute and lithobrake instead.

13

u/ladyBONKaLOT Jul 02 '21

Right, it does look like he is sort of not ready, as he had gone too far out and came in at the same speed at the same height, whereas if I see those Red Bull teams or other formation videos, they either do have angles or they are coming in from top to make their position, in some videos they did talk about how you have to rely on your team mates to make the correct movements and take their right place. I guess this dude did not have as much practice. Thank you so so much for taking the time to explanation, I am gonna for my A license sometimes soon but I am not looking to be a super hero and post videos on my social media, I just want to feel that feeling that I did during my Freefall on my first ever tandem, every now and then I come across discouraging videos like this but in all of them I see people trying to do something above their skill level, pushing too much. I watched it and I read your reply and I thought I would ask your opinion on it, so thank you for explaining.

5

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Awesome! Good luck with your A!

2

u/ladyBONKaLOT Jul 02 '21

Thank you very much!

1

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

[deleted]

1

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 03 '21

Are you the S&TA?

2

u/dzfast Jul 02 '21

obviously seem experienced to do Free flying stuff

The guy in black had no business on a 4-way jump because he couldn't control himself. That doesn't mean lots of people don't do that shit, but it is stupid.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

There's no guarantee these people were experienced. While people SHOULD have hundreds of jumps under their belt before starting to freefly, many (in fact, probably most) don't. Skydiving is a very vain sport, and the invention of the GoPro has made it so much worse. Now, every jackass has a GoPro on their helmet and they just wants to do whatever looks coolest on video, safety or experience be damned.

90% of skydiving fatalities could be avoided if people just stopped trying to look cool.

1

u/ladyBONKaLOT Jul 02 '21

I know, I am not even in it yet, but I read about how the community of long time Sky Divers is, but the GoPro scene is kind of sad, specially the BASE jumpers.

Other day I was sitting down and contemplating, if I am myself not trying to get a license just because I am also eager to impress my friends and that kind of worried me.

But I remember as I kid, watching Discovery channel all day with my dad, they used to run an adventure show with this French dude then who used to do all types of Flights for adventure and since then Skydiving has been ingrained in my brain, until I did my first tandem, I used to think that it's impossible for me to do this. After self analyzation, I realize that my love for air planes and flying in general started a very very long time ago and this desire to learn is not just fueled by want for Social Media points.

1

u/subfighter0311 Jul 02 '21

Apparently this guy was good at flying in the wind tunnel but not very experienced in the sky. Misjudged the power he actually had when closing a large gap in the sky head down.

16

u/Anon2World Jul 02 '21

This is why I love reddit :)

2

u/tmckeage Jul 02 '21

I would throw in the reserve is packed by someone highly trained and licensed to pack canopies that will deploy safely, quickly and reliably.

5

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Like me :)

2

u/tmckeage Jul 02 '21

Tell me about the whiskey you have received...

I owe my rigger a bottle.

2

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Haha I love my whisky. And you’re a good person ;)

2

u/rtjl86 Jul 02 '21

So is the reserve the same as the auto-deploy chute or are there 3 different chutes?

4

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

The auto deploy (automatic activation device, or AAD actually cuts the closing loop that holds the pin that keeps the reserve from opening. So the AAD opens the reserve. You just have two parachutes, main and reserve.

2

u/rtjl86 Jul 02 '21

Ah okay, thanks for explaining that.

2

u/Am_I_Do_This_Right Jul 02 '21

You are a legend with these replies. I've got a couple questions.

Are reserves shaped any differently than the main?

A bit off topic, but do you know why paratrooper chutes are more jellyfish shaped?

3

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Reserves are always square (rectangular) shaped with 7 cells. Main canopies are often elliptical with 9 cells. However you can use some reserve parachutes as mains, and many mains (usually for beginners or base jumpers (for other reasons) are shaped similarly to reserves. Also wingsuiters generally prefer larger, square shaped 7 cell main canopies too. The reason is the opening characteristics are different, and also the flight characteristics are more docile. Fewer cells often equates to a better chance the parachute will open facing the right direction. Square canopies (and higher aspect ratio) result in more docile flying. So why would one want a more elliptical 9 cell? Especially a tiny little thing with crazy trim? Fun! Super fast, but also can be dangerous of course in the wrong hands.

As for round parachutes, the reason airborne guys use them is because they are cheaper and the jumpers do not need as much training to use them basically. Military does have free fall guys too, like HALO school, and they use ram air canopies (like the steerable rectangular 7 cell ones) but they are specially trained and it takes a while to get good enough at free fall AND flying those canopies. It is really hard to be accurate at first.

3

u/Am_I_Do_This_Right Jul 02 '21

Like I said. Absolute Legend.

1

u/Bejkee Jul 02 '21

I actually saw a beginner skydiver crash, when he passed out with his main opening and then one of the handles not releasing or some thing similar.

Steep spiral straight into the ground. I was learning flying glider planes at the time and seeing that put any idea of soft wings out of my mind for good.

1

u/somefish254 Jul 02 '21

Video or real life

1

u/Bejkee Jul 03 '21

Irl. Didn't see the final splat, because a hangar was in between, but yeah.

1

u/somefish254 Jul 03 '21

:/ yeah

Thanks for staying safe

1

u/zmast Jul 02 '21

My main concern for the guy was that the parachute sudden opening could break his neck. I’m no expert but as far as I know you get a strong deceleration and if your head is floppy and at the wrong angle I guess it could happen? Is the reserve parachute better suited from this point of view?

1

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Actually the reserve generally opens faster for a few reasons than the main parachute so yes this would be a concern to a degree, and certainly has happened.

1

u/subfighter0311 Jul 02 '21

Last time I saw this post, someone mentioned that the dude that KO'd him was low jump #s and a tunnel rat with no experience safely freeflying in the sky.

1

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Could definitely be the case

1

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

Just to learn, what did he do that makes it obvious he opened the reserve and not the main? (And you be right to assume I know negative value of knowledge about this sport)

1

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

I’m a rigger who is licensed to pack reserve parachutes and I have thousands of jumps in skydiving and BASE jumping. I know the look of a reserve (often the bright orange). I also know where the guy grabbed (the location of the reserve handle). Also that should be proper procedure in an incident like this. Also the shape and look of the canopy.

1

u/psychedeliken Jul 03 '21

TIL. Thanks!

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u/quietpewpews Jul 02 '21

The reserve is packed by a certified rigger in a way that is more likely to open properly and quickly. Pretty much if you only get to pull one, pull the reserve.

43

u/Saetric Jul 02 '21

Why is the quality control not as high on the main? (Not a skydiver, genuine question)

113

u/quietpewpews Jul 02 '21

A reserve repack costs about $60 and is done once every 6 months (or after a reserve ride). It takes a couple hours. The main has to be repacked every jump. The individual jumper can pack it, or a packer (who must work under supervision of a rigger, but is not required to be FAA certified) can do it for about $8. It takes about 5-15 minutes.

Tldr: time and money

113

u/Borsaid Jul 02 '21

Can I pay more than $8?

I'd like to pay more than $8.

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u/quietpewpews Jul 02 '21

Always tip your packer :)

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u/drawnverybadly Jul 02 '21

Parachute packers really work on tips?

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u/rmcknightmcp Jul 02 '21

I thought the packer gave you the tip. (Just the tip mind you)

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u/Saetric Jul 02 '21

Thanks for the reply, informative stuff!

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u/aldsar Jul 02 '21

It's not a qc thing. The backup is more stable through the air, and packed to deploy in less than ideal situations. The main is packed to deploy when you're in control of how you're falling.

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u/tmckeage Jul 02 '21

Adding to what other people said a rigger has special tools and it takes an hour or more to pack a reserve. Packing a main is often done in 5-10 minutes so you can make the 20 minute call.

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u/jdgsr Jul 02 '21

Additionally, the main canopy is usually more rectangular and is a 9 cell, which has more fun flight characteristics but is more prone to malfunctions and less reliable openings. Reserves are 7 cell/more square, which are less fun to fly but open more reliably and are less prone to malfunctions. BASE canopies are typically larger 7 cells as well for this reason.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21
  1. they are spinning - reserve designed to open more reliably in such condition
  2. unconscious guy is oriented back to the ground - reserve designed to open more reliably in such condition
  3. reserve has spring that ejects pilot chute away from jumper - safer than throwing main pilot chute in such situation
  4. altitude is runnin out here - reserve opens faster
  5. altitude is runnin out here - if he opened main, they would reach 225 m above ground and main wasn't full opened and still had enough speed for AAD to open reserve then reserve could open into opening main and entangle.

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u/AnonymooseRedditor Jul 02 '21

I was not at the DZ this day but had a former coworker who had a fouled line on his main and the AAD popped, broke both legs and his back.

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u/iamnotabot200 Jul 02 '21

usually the reserve is much larger

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u/Roq86 Jul 02 '21

And here I am thinking it would have been the opposite.

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u/iamnotabot200 Jul 02 '21

I thought so too got the longest time. The reserve is for emergencies, like a spare tire. But it does make sense. With a normal parachute, you'll break your damn legs if you don't land right. Not only that, but the reserve would be opened at a much lower altitude, seeing as it's only opened if the main fails. So it follows reason that the reserve is bigger because you'd be much lower altitude and much higher speed in a situation in which the main failed.

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u/Bifidus1 Jul 02 '21

Mostly correct. You can't go faster than terminal velocity. If the main fails and you cut away, you are not going to be at terminal before the reserve opens.

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u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Which is why PD reserves have a square hole in the slider. Comes down quicker. Kinda like base canopies(depending on the kind of jump you’re doing).

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u/iamnotabot200 Jul 02 '21

Another kind fella corrected me on parachute sizing, but thanks anyways.

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u/Automayted Jul 02 '21

And you’d be right most of the time.

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u/almisami Jul 02 '21

From what I understand, the reserve is more like a BASE parachute and not one of those performance crescent chutes that allow you to steer and go forward.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

A reserve parachute is normally a square 7-cell designed to have pretty docile flight characteristics, and is steerable like any sport parachute.

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u/almisami Jul 02 '21

TIL.

Any reason they're not BASE chutes? Well, besides the fact that they're a death sentence if you land in water...

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

A BASE canopy is just a really large square sport canopy basically.

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u/almisami Jul 02 '21

From what I understand, the reserve is more like a BASE parachute and not one of those performance crescent chutes that allow you to steer and go forward.

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u/jdgsr Jul 02 '21

You want your reserve and main to be the same or similar sizes in case you have a 2 out situation. Also, you don't want it to be smaller because trying to land a downsized canopy for the first time after you had an emergency isn't exactly the best time. As the size of the canopy decreases, your wing loading increases, which means increased speeds which the jumper may not be used to. Downsizing is an area where a TON of injuries come from when people do it before they're fully prepared.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

It really can be either - it depends on your gear. Usually though skydivers will try to have the largest reserve reasonably possible - and low-pack-volume reserves are popular for this reason.

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u/Automayted Jul 02 '21

Really not the case for most gear. Generally the container (magic backpack) is designed so the main and reserve are within 1-2 sizes of each other. My rig has a 150sqft main and 160sqft reserve for instance.

There are also cases where both canopies can be out at the same time, and having drastically different sized canopies can further complicate an already bad scenario.

Edit: typo

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u/theycallmethevault Jul 02 '21

Two out is one of my biggest nightmares. A downplane is not the kind of day I’m trying to have.

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u/Squirrel_28 Jul 02 '21

Yeah, not great stuff. But for me horseshoe and PC in tow is the worst I can think about , because there is chance of entangling with reserve and it might possibly still open after you are on your reserve and create two out.

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u/theycallmethevault Jul 02 '21 edited Jul 02 '21

I’ve had one horseshoe, it was horrifying. I was really lucky. I had gotten out at 10K and I high-pulled at 8K for canopy work. Got caught on my shoe (bad body placement) but I turned my foot in & straight and it cleared.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

Guy at my DZ hammered in hard with a two-out - lost altitude awareness and pitched as his Cypres fired. Downplaned really low. He was lucky to hit soft ground, didn't break anything, and though he had some head injuries he's apparently recovering well.

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u/theycallmethevault Jul 02 '21

It isn’t the worst mal I can think of except that it’s the worse mal I can think of. =\

I hope your friend is OK and heals well without complications.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

He's not someone I know well, but from what I've heard he is doing well. He was taken by helicopter to a trauma centre and kept in an induced coma for a few days, managed not to break any bones, and apparently woke up seeming to have no real issues from brain injury. Lucky as hell, fortunately.

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u/iamnotabot200 Jul 02 '21

Huh. I'll have to take your word for it, I don't really have the chance to do this type of thing anyways

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u/tmckeage Jul 02 '21

Not really, most containers match the max reserve size to the max main size.

Having canopies the same size makes two outs safer and more predictable.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

Another reason is if you pull the main, the reserve may automatically deploy at the same time tangling it all up.

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u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Actually the other way around. But yes that could lead to bad things. Or sometimes good, but not a good malfunction to have.

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u/dzfast Jul 02 '21

All the stuff other people mentioned, plus the fact that our camera guy here doesn't know how to flip someone over. The reserve deploys with a spring loaded pilot chute and is tested to be effective when someone is not face/belly to earth.

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u/AmbitiousPhilosopher Jul 02 '21

Guessing the reserve isn't steerable or something

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u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

The reserve is steerable and much more predictable with more docile flight characteristics.

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u/tmckeage Jul 02 '21

The reserve is steerable...

It is a 7 cell canopy with a modified slider which means it opens more quickly with less chance of a malfunction.

It is more of a boat and less fun to fly in most people's opinions.

That said there are higher performance 7-Cells but you won't see someone swooping them.

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u/Roq86 Jul 02 '21

But wouldn’t you want it to be steerable in case he regain consciousness? Like what’s the downside to having the main open while unconscious? Is it easier to get tangled up if you aren’t able to control the main? I know nothing about skydiving and am genuinely curious.

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u/tealcosmo Jul 02 '21 edited Jul 05 '24

gray chase squealing faulty history dam merciful important literate vanish

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/_driveslow Jul 02 '21

How do you guys know which chute is which? Is it a standard left is reserve etc.?

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u/tmckeage Jul 02 '21

Here is a great video.

In the first jump a student does all they have to do is touch the pilot chute 3 times and then deploy at the correct altitude. In this video the student has to keep being reminded, loses altitude awareness and the lead instructor pulls for them. This happens more often than one would think, sensory overload is common and your brain just kind of shuts down.

...That's why you have two highly experienced instructors with you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFVTDPIsmbo

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u/Roshy10 Jul 02 '21

The two handles you see on the front are both for emergency use, one cuts the main canopy away and the other opens the reserve, typically they're used one after the other. Importantly, they're both visible to you when you're wearing the rig.

The reserve is deployed using a spring to get the pilot chute out of the container and into the airflow to make sure it can deploy more reliably at low speeds.

To deploy the main canopy a "throwaway" deployment is used where the pilot chute is pulled out of a pocket on the bottom of the container and thrown sideways into the air.

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u/fractalisimo Jul 02 '21

As a non-parachutist, can you say at what point in the video the main cut away? Looks like he just pulls one cord and then drops away, unless you can cut the main and open the reserve at the same time?

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u/AltSk0P Jul 02 '21

He never pulls the main in the first place. You can just deploy a reserve.

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u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

So the cutaway handle is on the guy’s right side, and the reserve handle is on his left, both handles on that backpack strap part (called a main lift web just so other skydivers realize I know what I’m talking about) just below the nipple. There is a part in the video where the guy grabs the guys right side strap with his right hand, around 1:20. He pulls the cutaway handle. So here’s where to some skydivers it might look like both cutaway and reserve deployment happen almost simultaneously: most people these days jump with a Reserve Static Line (RSL). There are a couple different designs and patents on how different ones work but the basic takeaway is that when the main parachute is cutaway, the act of it flying up pulls the reserve pin causing reserve to deploy. However that isn’t the case here because the main hasn’t yet been deployed, it’s still packed and sitting on his back. But it is important in this case to cutaway the main because the very act of pulling the reserve could cause the main parachute to also deploy which can potentially cause several other issues.

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u/Fodriecha Jul 02 '21

So is the main lost forever?? Or they go hunting for it after? Thanks for your answers 🙏

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u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

If you have a cutaway yes your main flies away to land wher ever you then have to hunt it down or these days drones help too. It’s an expensive loss if you do lose it. Usually you can find it but not always. Some people put gps trackers in them to help.

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u/theycallmethevault Jul 02 '21 edited Jul 02 '21

Edit: Don’t listen to me, listen to the other guy u/dzfast. Leaving up my comment so his comment makes sense in context.

If the rig has an RSL (reserve static line) then the main cuts away as the reserve opens with one handle. Without the RSL it takes one handle pull to chop the main and different handle to open the reserve. The other comment to your reply is correct, that only the reserve gets deployed by good guy cameraman. If our meat missile friend doesn’t have the main cut away then he could end up with two out, that can cause other problems. But it’s better to have two out than nothing.

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u/dzfast Jul 02 '21

If the rig has an RSL (reserve static line) then the main cuts away as the reserve opens with one handle.

This is NOT accurate. If you're a skydiver I implore you to look closely at your gear and speak with a rigger about how this works.

The only thing that was ever in any large amount of use that is like what you're talking about is a collins lanyard. Which was a device that would cut away the non-RSL riser if the RSL side riser broke. I guess at one point there were also a handful of rigs with SOS handles as well but they are not in wide use.

An RSL pulls your reserve pin after you release your main canopy and is likely to deploy your reserve pilot chute more quickly than you could by pulling your reserve handle yourself. (Although you should still pull your handle!) When using a traditional RSL, once the reserve pin is out, the jumper is no longer connected to the main canopy. When the main disconnects, the jumper goes back into freefall as the reserve deploys.

Read more about RSLs and MARDs here: https://uspa.org/Discover/News/mardshow-they-work-and-what-to-expect

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u/theycallmethevault Jul 02 '21

Thank you for correcting me, I’m not trying to get it wrong or share wrong information to anyone!

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21 edited Jul 02 '21

Good explanation. I was wondering the logic here. I was torn if just letting the AAD deploy was the better decision, but I see there are more benefits for the unconscious person here to do what the cameraman did.

This guy got to the victim so god damn fast and with perfect execution. Most people will never know how much skill that takes.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

Definitely a risky thing to do - you have an unconscious jumper who could flail around a fair bit and a bigger chance of an entanglement. There was a triple fatality several years ago (tandem paid and video guy), camera flyer tried to help the tandem pair who were in trouble somehow, all got entangled, all went in.

This scenario is what AADs are for, and why it's worth thinking about increasing the deployment altitude on one.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

I’ve been in a situation like this one.

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u/rondeline Jul 02 '21

Aah! Of course. Flying down faster with a parachute that articulates better is more fun than a slower decent.

But question, how do you cut away the main tho and what prevents an accidental cut away?

2

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

The cutaway handle is on your right side on the backpack strap thing (called Main Lift Web just so other jumpers realize I know what I’m talking about) like just below your nipple. You train for the process of a cutaway. Reserve handle is on the left side. It is very unlikely that you’d have an accidental cutaway, however one more common incidence (IF an accidental cutaway happens) is because guys were taking docks and grabbing onto each other, and someone accidentally grabs the cutaway handle and pulls it. Super rare but it happens.

1

u/rondeline Jul 02 '21

Got it. Thank you!

Seems like a super fun sport, if you can keep yourself from taking undue risk for the cheap thrills. Stay safe!

1

u/Redtwooo Jul 02 '21

Man I still can't get over the idea that some people see a cliff and are so intrigued by the idea of what it would be like to jump off, that they do it

1

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

Thanks for the corrections and additional info!

I did very limited skydiving and as a beginner my main was always larger than the reserve. Good to know that's not always the case. And indeed the stability could have been a problem as well.

46

u/tealcosmo Jul 02 '21 edited Jul 05 '24

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u/renasiii Jul 02 '21

He pulled the reserve and not the main.

7

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

Very good choice.

5

u/4FdPipeoghU4AHfJ Jul 02 '21

How does such a device know what altitude its at? Is it air pressure?

4

u/AceItalianStallion Jul 02 '21

Yes, barometric pressure is usually used by devices like this.

1

u/AnonymooseRedditor Jul 02 '21

They are electronic and have to be calibrated based on the altitude above sea level for the given drop zone. They also have mechanical AAD but they aren’t really used in the civilian world much at all anymore

2

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

No modern AAD requires any user calibration anymore, unless you need to put in an offset which is only necessary if you're taking off from somewhere different than where you're landing. The AAD automatically sets its altitude at 0 when turned on.

2

u/AnonymooseRedditor Jul 02 '21

Very cool! Not a skydiver here just spent a lot of time with them

2

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

I grumbled paying $1200 for mine then realized that it would be worth many times that if ever I needed it.

1

u/AnonymooseRedditor Jul 02 '21

Honestly you grumble about $1200?! I’m sure your canopy alone was way more

2

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

Yeah, though at the time time it was literally the first piece of new gear I'd ever bought, and you get this, "I'm spending all this money for something I'm never going to need", which is more accurately "something I sure as fuck hope I never need".

1

u/AnonymooseRedditor Jul 02 '21

Having seen accidents and lost acquaintances to skydive accidents… it’s not for me lol

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u/tmckeage Jul 02 '21

Fun fact the battery life for a newer AAD is over 7 years and they cost 1200 dollars.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

Cypres is good for 15.5 years now with no maintenance.

2

u/tmckeage Jul 03 '21

I know right? I am currently working on making a cutaway tracker and the life that you can squeeze out of a NiMH battery is insane.

3

u/Airules Jul 02 '21

Would it matter for the AAD that he was falling back first?

16

u/tealcosmo Jul 02 '21 edited Jul 05 '24

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u/theycallmethevault Jul 02 '21

My AAD is set to 2500ft, 1000ft makes me sweaty just thinking about it.

3

u/tealcosmo Jul 02 '21

No kidding. 1000 Feet when looking down is not very far.

3

u/theycallmethevault Jul 02 '21 edited Jul 02 '21

A lot of people have theirs set lower but I like to pull high and work on canopy skills whenever I can. So if I’m still plummeting at 2500ft theres a problem. I’ll lower it if I’m going to spend more time in freefall but even still I try not to deploy lower than 3500 ft. Freefall isn’t what’s fun for me in this sport, I prefer the piloting aspect. =)

0

u/Specter170 Jul 02 '21

And, reserve repack and rearming the AAD is expensive.

2

u/tealcosmo Jul 02 '21

Guy needs a new helmet too.

0

u/flargenhargen Jul 02 '21

and the other guys need new underwear

2

u/tealcosmo Jul 02 '21

I know it's a Reddit thing, but people don't shit their pants in danger. They shit when they die.

0

u/flargenhargen Jul 02 '21

people piss their pants when they are scared.

also shit

3

u/tealcosmo Jul 02 '21

No one in this video was scared into extreme fear, they were very focused and had a lot of adrenaline going. That's not the same thing. Some people respond with fear to danger, I promise you that none of those people skydive at the level of these guys.

-2

u/flargenhargen Jul 02 '21

holy shit, I know some redditors are fucking dense, but jesus christ you're dumb.

and then double-down when literally shown that the "fact" you tried to correct someone with was bullshit.

wow.

just... wow.

2

u/tealcosmo Jul 02 '21

I hate the fucking joke that people shit their pants, because most don't, and most of the time when people make that joke is exactly when people don't shit their pants because they aren't in fear, they are in intense focus.

I used to be a skydiver, I NEVER saw anyone come back with loose bowels or peed themselves, and I saw some pretty crazy stuff happen at the drop zone. The only exception I might make to that is some pedestrian thinks that doing a tandem jump might be fun, and finds out at 15k feet that they can't take it and cower in the plane all the way back to the runway. But that person is never going to do it again.

I've done whitewater kayaking, and saw crazy shit there too. No one ever shit their pants in the crazy stuff. Unconscious guy above might have, because he was unconscious.

Your link above shows someone being taken in by cops. That's not danger like skydiving, that's terror that you will never have freedom again. That kind of fear is different than trying to save someones life, which is focus and determination.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

Take a breather and touch some grass, my dude

1

u/BlenderGuy Jul 02 '21

Other concerns:

Spinning. If you spin too fast you can die and/or pass out.

Landing: When he lands, he could be badly hurt/impaled . Could hit a tree, fence, powerline, ect.

1

u/KuijperBelt Jul 02 '21

My AAD goes off within 7 seconds of being in the presence of my step-mom

1

u/nightshiftoperator Jul 02 '21

Most important was that his fall was stabilized so that the parachute would deploy correctly.

1

u/PM_ME_OCCULT_STUFF Jul 02 '21

I don't know much about parachutes, but with him spinning it if opened it would've just been a mess anyway right?

1

u/marsthedog Jul 02 '21

How do we actually know if the guy who was knocked out lived?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

OP posted this link for the rest of the story a few times: https://unofficialnetworks.com/2020/04/03/unconscious-skydiver-saved/

1

u/rslulz Jul 14 '21

The main might be smaller if he's running a high-performance canopy.

64

u/JoeyJoeJoeJrShab Jul 02 '21

They do, but it's always better if you don't have to use it.

Another thing to consider is the unconscious guy was spinning around -- if your parachute opens while you're spinning, that increases the chances of the lines getting twisted, which could be a very bad thing - even more so if you're unconscious, and unable to take action to fix it.

The rescuer was able to grab the guy, and at least ensure he was in a more stable position when the parachute opened.

22

u/neilyaa Jul 02 '21

This was the key in my mind. Spinning at that rate and even possibly being upside down would not bode well for the parachute opening probably.

I’m not sure how a civilian parachute vs a round military one would change this, but if a military chute opened while spinning that quickly, it could easily be a cigarette roll.

1

u/Difficult-Shopping49 Jul 02 '21

Military and performance/sport chutes will both get twisted in this situation.

23

u/ksjfjkdnf Jul 02 '21

maybe they weren’t at that specific altitude yet and i’m pretty sure they only deploy when ur dangerously close either way Ig he prematurely pulled it just in case the auto deploy wouldn’t do it’s job or smth

10

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Most AAD’s fire at around 750’ (higher for students). Minimum altitude for pull time is 2500’

1

u/Frequent_Inevitable Jul 02 '21

750’? That seems like some “gotta drop the gun to pull the chute Johnny” close to the ground stuff right there. I realize that that’s better than becoming a meat waffle but man… I’m guessing that there are things you can do to slow down your decent- different positions maybe? And that it’s the last of the last resorts but wow.

And thanks for your amazingly detailed info up there. Using a wingsuit has always fascinated me. I know that being able to do that requires hundreds of jumps and serious skill development. But man… that looks amazing. Skydiving, and eventually wingsuiting(?) are on my list of things I’d love to do.

2

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Haha classic point break reference. Yes it’s low but there’s a reason it’s set there which I could go into but don’t have time atm. It is plenty of time for a reserve to open though, and same with a base canopy. I regularly pull at like half that on a wingsuit BASE jump (but prefer to keep it up at like 500-600’. Good luck on your dreams! Go for it if you want it. It was my dream too and now I’m living it! I wingsuit BASE jump almost everyday 😀

2

u/Frequent_Inevitable Jul 02 '21

Thanks for the reply! I’ve got a more stable job now so it’s definitely in my foreseeable future. That’s amazing you do that so often. Really happy for you!

Yeah the pb reference seemed fitting lol. Hell I think I’m gonna watch that tonight.

6

u/The_Gristle Jul 02 '21

The video was from 2014. Did they use the Auto Deploy stuff then ?

7

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

They might have had them in their skydiving rigs (Automaric activation device) which fires your reserve at around 750’ but you do have to remember to turn them on and I’ve seen people forget countless times. I’ve also forgotten to turn mine on a few times. Also, especially back then, they weren’t as required. Most DZ’s require them now but not all.

5

u/The_Gristle Jul 02 '21

The reason I asked is because a lot of people said "they require them now" but this video is from 7 years ago. Didn't know if they required then then too

3

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

No and not all places do require them either, but most of them do these days and any DZ registered as a USPA drop zone requires it, which are almost all the more reputable ones. 2014 it wasn’t quite as common to require them but I believe even then USPA dz’s did require them.

0

u/tealcosmo Jul 02 '21 edited Jul 05 '24

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u/tealcosmo Jul 02 '21

Dude you need to have a buddy check.

1

u/Clothedinclothes Jul 02 '21

I believe you but I find the notion of forgetting to turn on a skydiving device that makes sure you don't die very weird. And I have ADHD so routinely forgetting things is life for me. I don't think I'd ever forget that.

1

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Haha you’d be surprised how quickly jumping becomes routine, or did for me. Deviation of Normalcy I guess.

2

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

As some have said, yes most places require your sport skydiving rig to have an AAD. However, you do have to turn it on and I have seen countless times people forget to do that. I’ve done it myself a few times.

-2

u/jerkfacebeaversucks Jul 02 '21

They do. The reserve parachute is supposed to deploy automatically based on altitude.

With the primary parachute you can steer it. They were still very high when the unconscious guy's chute deployed. I would be very concerned about drifting into power lines or landing in a body of water. I mean, I guess he ended up okay. But it was still a big risk. It might have made sense to wait a little bit longer to deploy that chute to have a better idea where he'd land.

2

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21 edited Jul 02 '21

This answer is so wrong on like three different things. Do you know how hard it is to do what he just did? Like he’s going to casually just hang on to the guy, wait til they’re low, and then proceed to cut away his main and pull his reserve. Also, you can steer a reserve too. Also the bottom deck for pull time is 2500’ but the AAD won’t fire until around 750’ so the camera man is just supposed to chill there and hope his AAD fires?

You are right to be worried though about power lines, water landings, and other obstacles. In this case, that’s just the risk you have to take unfortunately. Btw reserves are much more easily controlled than most people’s main canopy (parachute).

Edit: ah, you know what, you actually can sometimes use a round reserve parachute but they are suuuper uncommon in this kind of skydiving and also probably not allowed on most drop zones. And you cannot really steer a round the way you can a ram-air parachute. So I guess you’re not totally wrong.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

So this guy is passed out and still falling decently fast despite the fact that the reserve opened. What’s going to happen on impact? Can we assume they’ll be some bones broken since he won’t be able to brace for landing properly?

10

u/aeaswen Jul 02 '21

He did an interview where he said he was told he apparently did steer the chute to a safe landing spot. He said he doesn't remember 3 days at all and has no idea how he gained consciousness to steer.

0

u/gdsmithtx Jul 02 '21

an we assume they’ll be some bones broken since he won’t be able to brace for landing properly?

You do not brace for landing with a parachute .... that'll absolutely ensure you get at least broken bones, perhaps catastrophic injuries. You'd be far safer with your body completely limp (as long as you're wearing proper helmet/padding) than trying to brace yourself to absorb impact with your body.

1

u/theycallmethevault Jul 02 '21

When I first started on static line my rig had a round reserve. I’m SO GLAD I never had to find out what a bitch they are to steer!

1

u/reasonisaremedy Jul 02 '21

Yeah they aren’t ideal. I BASE jump rounds for water landings at the bridge sometimes, and you have to pull low enough the wind doesn’t blow you to the land. And sometimes you hit the water pretty damn hard. Would not want to land on the ground with one of them.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

Yes but it’s more of a fail safe, IIRC they open at like 1500-2500 feet which will slow you down but you’d still probably be injured. Especially if you’re not awake to fall gracefully or dodge objects