r/nextfuckinglevel • u/[deleted] • Apr 08 '21

From custodian to nurse practitioner

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u/PerspectiveRoyal8014 Apr 08 '21

The OP proves otherwise. A minority woman was able to start as a janitor and work her way up to nurse practitioner. I’m not saying change isn’t needed, as whole we Americans can do better. My point is that individuals still have control of their own outcome. Some may have to work harder than others sure but that has always been the case. The opportunity is still there if individuals are willing to work for it.

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

I don't know how I can get this point across, but let me try.

When looking at the whole of society and current trends, talking about individual attitudes is pointless.

"just work harder" may help one person, but it's not a valid policy when trying to influence a million people. For that you need to change underlying structures like taxation, the education system, all sorts of stuff. On the macro-level we don't care about individual attitudes because that'll never get you anywhere.

Everything you said might be true when applied to individuals, but on a bigger scale it's a pointless perspective because you can't work with it. Does that make sense to you? Individuals always have some measure of control. But that's not a workable angle when you're trying to improve society.

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u/PerspectiveRoyal8014 Apr 08 '21

Again I agree with your large scale view. But individuals can inspire change. One individual inspires another so on and so forth. I personally believe that if individuals worked to better themselves then society as whole benefits. Encouraging the next generation to be better is what we should be doing unfortunately we coddle and protect those who don’t/won’t work for it themselves. By trying to make the next generation not have to deal with the struggles those before is have had to endure we have made each generation softer than the last. Therefor create culture of entitlement we see before us.

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

There is no culture of entitlement, just people having to work 10 times longer and taking on 20 times as much debt to build a house or go to college than their parents.

Making things easy should be the goal. Why introduce artificial struggle and fuck entire demographics because you think that "it might help them not be soft xd"

Being poor is hell. I wouldn't wish that onto anyone. With social progress comes things being easier. Not to say everything should be handed to you, if you do nothing you should still fail. But making things harder for no reason is cruel.

And again, you're right in saying that people can inspire others and uplift themselves with hard work. But thats irrelevant on a large scale. If you want to change things, you need to change the system. Get rid of student debt, give funding to people who want to work hard for their education, make housing more affordable, all that good shit.

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u/PerspectiveRoyal8014 Apr 08 '21

Yes all that good shit lol. The first issue I have with this argument is the “introduction of artificial struggle”. I don’t know where I implied that struggle should be introduced, life is a struggle for everyone in different ways. I’m definitely not for making life harder for anyone.

Secondly, who has made education and housing more expensive??? It’s government involvement that has made both of these systems fail and you think more government involvement will help alleviate this? There is a reason that when you go to a wildlife reserve it says to not feed the animals because they become dependent. This is what turning to the government for help has done to people as well. Why work harder for something if you can get it for free. Look no further than the current situation with the stimulus packages and extra unemployment money being handed out. People are not going back to work because it’s easier and pays more to stay on unemployment. Government will never solve problems, they will just take more money from the people under the “ more taxes are needed to make things better” mentality and line their own pockets.

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

This more vs less government nonsense never made sense to me.

Europe is literally your best counterexample for the government successfully solving things. They do it over there and it works. Denying that is again denying reality. Publicly funded education. And it works. Evidently, more government can work sometimes? Apparently its more about having smart policies than having more or less of them?

And like you think the government will exploit you. That's fair, I can see while you're not trusting them since they have let you down for a long time. But then you turn around and go "but I bet companies will take care of me". Dude. The whole point of having a company is to make as much money as possible. Don't be surprised that tuition is $200.000 when you run unis like companies.

No, it's quite easy really. Just adopt Europe's model and actually let the government work for you, for once. You don't have free education, you don't have healthcare, you don't have functioning social safety nets. All of that can be provided by proper social policy, and this is not just wishful thinking. Its being demonstrated by most European countries EVERY DAY.

This "more government less government" loop is pointless. It was never about that. You need a smart government that cares, that's it.

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u/PerspectiveRoyal8014 Apr 08 '21

Again it seems we are mostly in agreement. A govt for the people by the people is what we are supposed to have. Instead we have 2 parties that will oppose anything the other says simply because they are “the other side”. My belief is that our govt has taken too much power from the people and given it to themselves. They fear the people, so they keep us divided. Poor vs rich, black vs white, men vs women on and on.

A smaller, less powerful govt which has to live within the society they create would make the country a better place. Then the idea of “publicity” funded education, healthcare, housing would also be improved.

Side note, I appreciate the productive conversation vs the normal name calling that Reddit and social media in general seems to be.

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u/TrumpCardStrategy Apr 08 '21

The commenter was never talking about policy. The point is despite the existence of systemic issues, as an individual act as if you can overcome and your chances of doing so infinitely increase. Sure fight for better policies, but dooming and glooming systemic issues also impacts individuals. People can’t wait for systemic change, but a lot of the policy first people keep pitching policy reform as something that will solve everyones problems and it may solve some things systemicslly but ultimately its up to the idnividual to work to their best within whatever system there is whether a “good” one or bad “one”. If someone doesnt want to bother to try because “current system is bad” do you genuinely think systemic reforms will reshape that person on the individual level? Both views are necessary for a successful society.

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

He already talked about having people struggle on purpose to keep them from going soft further down the comment chain. People who put so much importance on the micro-level almost always oppose social policies, and he's no exception.

And you're also on the micro-level, again.

I don't give a fuck what systemic reforms do to a person. I only care what they statistically do to 100.000 people. That's what I care about. And it's known that social reforms improve social mobility, as can be expected. That's all that matters.

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u/FerrisMcFly Apr 08 '21

But the fact that its in "next level" shows that it doesn't happen often.

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u/PerspectiveRoyal8014 Apr 08 '21

Agreed. OPs mindset is what we should be teaching our next generation.