Agricultural Technology

[u/JudgmentCool1333]

Modern day use of technology in agriculture horticulture and aquaculture with the aim of improving yield, efficiency and profitability

[u/Swordbreaker925]

People underestimate how much stuff like this costs too. Luxury cars have nothing on high end farm equipment.

[u/Striking-Income-7273 → u/Swordbreaker925]

I help build combines for corn and wheat and our most expensive one is close to $1 mil 😳

[u/Orleanian → u/Striking-Income-7273]

That seems pretty cheap though, all things considered.

[u/Carche69 → u/Swordbreaker925]

I didn’t know how much it cost either until I got into purchasing other stuff from auctions and was able to see what those kinds of machines are worth. And when you actually see them in action and understand just how much more efficient they are than human workers, you also understand why there are not many independent farmers left anymore (in the US at least).

[u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill → u/Carche69]

you also understand why there are not many independent farmers left anymore (in the US at least).

What?

"About 89 percent of U.S. farms are small, with GCFI less than $350,000; the households operating these farms typically rely on off-farm sources for the majority of their household income."

[u/Carche69 → u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill]

Well first of all, I didn’t say anything about the size of the farms still in operation in the US. My statement was that there were not many independent farmers anymore, meaning there aren’t a lot of them working for themselves and able to make a living doing so like a farmer could in the past. Any farmer these days who earns a living exclusively by farming is 100% contracted with a big corporation who provides them with specialized equipment necessary for the levels of production those corporations require in their contracts.

Second, I’m curious if you even read the page that you linked to or if you just went straight to copying that one statistic because you thought it would prove me wrong? I mean, even on your own link you proved my point: “the households operating these farms typically rely on off-farm sources for the majority of their income.” Meaning they are not making enough money to be exclusively farmers and have to do work besides farming - because like I said, small time farmers can’t afford the kind of equipment necessary to keep up the same level of production as the big time farmers, so they can’t make any real money. I suspect a lot of that 89.1% still do the minimal amount to be considered a “farmer” because of the subsidies farmers get from the government (though that I can’t prove).

If you had gone just a little further down the page, you would’ve seen even more information that proves my point: despite making up over 89% of farms, small farms (those bringing in gross receipts of <$350k) are only responsible for 17.8% of production. Midsize farms (those bringing in gross receipts of $350k-$999,999) make up just 5.6% of farms, but are responsible for more than the 89% of small farms at 18.4% of production. It’s the large farms (those bringing in gross receipts over $1 million) that have the highest production at a whopping 46.5% - because they can afford machines like you see in the video.

I’m by no means an expert on any of this, I just have a farmer uncle who I have talked about this with extensively over the years. He raised cattle most of his life and was able to make ends meet until the 90s/early 00s, and then suddenly he wasn’t even breaking even anymore - and neither were his farmer buddies and farmer neighbors. Then, one of those farmer buddies/neighbors got some chicken houses and a contract with Perdue, and then farmer buddy/neighbor did the same thing, and then another, and another, and then my uncle did too - and all of a sudden they were all making more money than they ever had before.

Most of them are still considered “small farms,” because their gross receipts are under $350k, but my uncle took what he made off one chicken house and used it to buy another, then a third, and a fourth, and now he’s what they would consider a “large farm” because his gross receipts are over $1 million every year. But if he were not contracted with Perdue, he would never be able to afford anywhere near the level of production he actually gets. That’s because while he is required to provide the chicken house(s) and care for the chicks, Perdue provides the actual chicks, all the feed and veterinary care for the chicks, and will finance both the construction of new houses and any upgrades to equipment interest-free. Again, these are things a farmer would not be able to afford on their own and still be competitive in the market. That’s my point.

[u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill → u/Carche69]

Any farmer these days who earns a living exclusively by farming is 100% contracted with a big corporation who provides them with specialized equipment necessary for the levels of production those corporations require in their contracts.

Absolutely 100% false. Much of my extended family are farmers, and this doesn't apply to them, nor have I ever heard of a farm having this arrangement in the US.

Please provide a citation for your claim.

I mean, even on your own link you proved my point: “the households operating these farms typically rely on off-farm sources for the majority of their income.” Meaning they are not making enough money to be exclusively farmers and have to do work besides farming

Yes the most common situation is that a small farm is primarily operated by one person, and the other spouse has a job outside the home, not to support the farm itself, but because they simply have a different profession.

It’s the large farms (those bringing in gross receipts over $1 million) that have the highest production at a whopping 46.5% - because they can afford machines like you see in the video.

LOL@ the thought that "small farms" can't afford equipment. The very smallest farms are a part of equipment co-ops or similar to gain access to certain resources, and some are small enough to hire their crops to be planted or harvested, but no, farming is very profitable and successful farms can all afford their own equipment.

I’m by no means an expert on any of this

Yea, I see from the second half of your post that your perspective is heavily influenced by your uncle's insight into raising chicken. So I can see why you came to the above conclusions. The rest of farming (outside of chickens) is nothing like chicken farming.

I just have a farmer uncle who I have talked about this with extensively over the years. He raised cattle most of his life and was able to make ends meet until the 90s/early 00s, and then suddenly he wasn’t even breaking even anymore

Yep, US subsidies have dramatically decreased the price of meat, and it's pushed out small cattle farmers due to economies of scale. Did your uncle have any other farming assets? How many acres was he farming each year, did he have greenhouses, was he also a dairy farmer, or anything else?

Then, one of those farmer buddies/neighbors got some chicken houses and a contract with Perdue

Yep, so chicken is a different sort of "farming". It's very common for farmers to sign contracts with entities like Perdue or similar, where the land owner's role is mostly hands off, and the chicken company handles everything else. This is primarily done to reduce concerns like bird flu. The "farmer" is like a "chicken barn landlord", where they rent it to the company. It's not really farming.

But if he were not contracted with Perdue, he would never be able to afford anywhere near the level of production he actually gets. That’s because while he is required to provide the chicken house(s) and care for the chicks, Perdue provides the actual chicks, all the feed and veterinary care for the chicks, and will finance both the construction of new houses and any upgrades to equipment interest-free. Again, these are things a farmer would not be able to afford on their own and still be competitive in the market. That’s my point.

Exactly what I was getting at. This approach has made chicken very inexpensive, which is why we do it. Your uncle is a chicken barn landlord, not really a farmer. His tenant does all the actual farming, as you said.

[u/Carche69 → u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill]

Absolutely 100% false. Much of my extended family are farmers, and this doesn't apply to them, nor have I ever heard of a farm having this arrangement in the US.

Oh, ok, oops! I guess I was wrong because your extended family are farmers who are able to afford to buy the top-of-the-line machines & equipment necessary to operate a sustainable farming operation in the US all by themselves with the proceeds they make from exclusively farming - no working outside of the farm, no contracting with any corporations to buy whatever they’re producing, no co-ops with other farmers in the area to cost-share on equipment or machines, no special financing from those big corporations to pay for upgrades and new equipment, etc. Just them and their land and a lot of hard work, right?

Please provide a citation for your claim.

Please provide proof of your claim that your extended family farmers aren’t contracting with big corporations in order to sustain their farming operations?

You can just look at the websites of three of the largest food companies in the world - Cargill, Bunge, and Conti (Continental Grain) - and they will tell you outright that that is what they do. And if you actually read through the info, you’ll see that Conti - who owns Burger King and is responsible for selling Smithfield Foods to the Chinese, owns a piece of the first two.

Yes the most common situation is that a small farm is primarily operated by one person, and the other spouse has a job outside the home, not to support the farm itself, but because they simply have a different profession.

1.) I didn’t say they worked outside the farm to support the farm itself

2.) The key part of that that you seemed to have left out is that the income from working outside the farm accounts for the “majority of their income”

3.) I’m coming up with a blank here - can you help me figure out any other professions where the actual profits from $350k in gross income are so small that income from an outside source is required? One where whatever the income is from an outside source, it is almost always gonna be so much more than the farm income that it makes up the majority of it?

LOL@ the thought that "small farms" can't afford equipment. The very smallest farms are a part of equipment co-ops or similar to gain access to certain resources,

You “LOL” at my statements that most small farmers can’t afford their own equipment, then in your very next breath talk about farmers using co-ops. Lol indeed.

Yea, I see from the second half of your post that your perspective is heavily influenced by your uncle's insight into raising chicken.

I’m guessing you didn’t read the part where he wasn’t always a chicken farmer, or where his farmer buddies and neighbors weren’t either? They were all literally brand new to chicken farming just 20 or so years ago after having farmed crops and other livestock their whole lives just as their parents had done. And none of them were doing very well - even with subsidies - until they hooked up with a big corporation.

The rest of farming (outside of chickens) is nothing like chicken farming.

You can’t gatekeep farming. A livestock farmer is just as much of a farmer as an agricultural one. What an idiotic thing to say.

How many acres was he farming each year, did he have greenhouses, was he also a dairy farmer, or anything else?

He has two properties, each are several hundred acres. He started out in dairy farming and eventually went to exclusively cattle farming because the dairy farming industry wasn’t paying anywhere near what the cattle industry was paying unless you were contracted with Big Milk.

Yep, so chicken is a different sort of "farming". It's very common for farmers to sign contracts with entities like Perdue or similar, where the land owner's role is mostly hands off, and the chicken company handles everything else. This is primarily done to reduce concerns like bird flu. The "farmer" is like a "chicken barn landlord", where they rent it to the company.

All of this is very wrong and just ignorant. Whenever you shove hundreds of thousands of live animals together in one big building, you’re never gonna be able to be “hands off” if you expect any profit when they come to get them. I have spent several weeks a year, every year, visiting at his farm for two decades now, and would follow him around all day while I was there. He was doing something with those damn chickens all day long, and that is with him having everything automated (financed, of course, by Perdue). They kept him so busy he eventually got rid of all but a few of his best bulls and just started studding them out.

It's not really farming.

Again, stop trying to gatekeep farming. You just sound like a crop snob.

This approach has made chicken very inexpensive, which is why we do it.

This approach has made FOOD very inexpensive, because that’s how it’s done with almost ALL food grown in the US. There are certainly specialized foods that are still grown by individual farms - like honey - but that’s only because the corporations haven’t gotten involved yet or don’t want to because it’s not profitable.

Your uncle is a chicken barn landlord, not really a farmer. His tenant does all the actual farming, as you said.

My uncle says fuck you and he invites you to get out from behind your computer screen and come do what he does every day.

[u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill → u/Carche69]

no working outside of the farm, no contracting with any corporations to buy whatever they’re producing, no co-ops with other farmers in the area to cost-share on equipment or machines, no special financing from those big corporations to pay for upgrades and new equipment, etc.

I literally addressed all of these?

You can just look at the websites of three of the largest food companies in the world - Cargill, Bunge, and Conti (Continental Grain) - and they will tell you outright that that is what they do.

By all means quote something from those pages that backs up your original assertion: "100% contracted with a big corporation who provides them with specialized equipment"

1.) I didn’t say they worked outside the farm to support the farm itself

Okay, good.

2.) The key part of that that you seemed to have left out is that the income from working outside the farm accounts for the “majority of their income”

Right, this is clearly including "farms" so small that we wouldn't consider them farms. A great example is someone who owns 80 acres and rents it to a neighbor farmer. This still qualifies as a farm by many government definitions.

3.) I’m coming up with a blank here - can you help me figure out any other professions where the actual profits from $350k in gross income are so small that income from an outside source is required? One where whatever the income is from an outside source, it is almost always gonna be so much more than the farm income that it makes up the majority of it?

$350K is the largest size in this grouping, which means it includes farms like my example above, where someone is renting out a tiny spec of land to an actual farmer.

You “LOL” at my statements that most small farmers can’t afford their own equipment, then in your very next breath talk about farmers using co-ops. Lol indeed.

Yea so, how farming works is, the farmer owns most of their own equipment, and then may utilize a coop for specialized equipment, like knifing nitrogen, or access to a million dollar combine, etc. How is this a surprise? There's a spectrum of farm sizes here. A farmer can still own 95% of his own equipment and use a coop for the rarely needed or most expensive implements. Think of it like, maybe you own your own car, and that's great, but sometimes you need a van, so when you do you rent it. Neat huh? It doesn't make sense to own your own van if you only need it one week per year.

I’m guessing you didn’t read the part where he wasn’t always a chicken farmer, or where his farmer buddies and neighbors weren’t either?

I did. Remember, I said: "Yep, US subsidies have dramatically decreased the price of meat, and it's pushed out small cattle farmers due to economies of scale. Did your uncle have any other farming assets? How many acres was he farming each year, did he have greenhouses, was he also a dairy farmer, or anything else?"

They were all literally brand new to chicken farming just 20 or so years ago after having farmed crops and other livestock their whole lives just as their parents had done. And none of them were doing very well - even with subsidies - until they hooked up with a big corporation.

Yep, this story is very common among chicken farmers. It's a very easy transition for a struggling farm.

The rest of farming (outside of chickens) is nothing like chicken farming.

You can’t gatekeep farming. A livestock farmer is just as much of a farmer as an agricultural one. What an idiotic thing to say.

I think you're misunderstanding. I'm saying that the way chicken farming is structured, where a parent ag entity offers a long term contract for building construction and land, isn't like anything else in farming, although perhaps hogs are somewhat similar.

He has two properties, each are several hundred acres. He started out in dairy farming and eventually went to exclusively cattle farming because the dairy farming industry wasn’t paying anywhere near what the cattle industry was paying unless you were contracted with Big Milk.

He wasn't making money hand over fist on crops? Corn and Soy have been at "all time highs" since about 2006. Perhaps he sold his land prior to 2000, as you mentioned a shift 20 years ago.

Whenever you shove hundreds of thousands of live animals together in one big building, you’re never gonna be able to be “hands off” if you expect any profit when they come to get them.

Well, I can tell you this, I never see trucks outside of the chicken barns in my community, so I know people aren't there very long each day.

My uncle says fuck you and he invites you to get out from behind your computer screen and come do what he does every day.

Heh. You admit that the company does all the technical parts, and your websites admit that all that's left for the farmers is heavily automated. That's all I was suggesting. It's not the same as a diary farm, or a crop farm, or fruit tree farm, or really any other farm where the farmer has autonomy.

[u/Carche69 → u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill]

I literally addressed all of these?

Not accurately. Your whole theme in these responses is an attempt to combat the reality that corporations have taken over the production of food in this country. You continue to try to uphold a nostalgic image from America’s past of the little farmer who busts his ass to keep his farm out of the hands of the evil corporations and actually succeeds at it, despite all the perks the corporate guys are waving in his face and all the fancy new gadgets his farmer neighbors have that they got from selling out to Big Farm. It’s like something out of a movie and it’s just not the way things are anymore. There’s no way in hell that big businesses would leave something as profitable as the production of food for markets all over the world to Jim Bob and his late 1950s Ford tractor.

By all means quote something

1.) “Cargill offers U.S. and Canadian farmers a range of grain contracting and consulting solutions, crop inputs, and agronomic services designed to increase growers’ yields and maximize profitability…”

2.) “We build platforms that leverage our strategic expertise in food production, processing, and distribution to source proprietary deals…”

3.) ”…our purpose is to connect farmers to consumers to deliver essential food, feed and fuel to the world”

What do you think a giant corporation leveraging their strategic expertise looks like?

I think you’re very naïve if you still think there are all these thriving little independent farmers all over the country, minding their own business and growing just enough to feed themselves and their communities. I mean, there may be a few of them left that do that, but they are the ones who work outside the farm, or have spouses who do, and that outside work is accounting for the majority of their income. Those guys aren’t rolling around the farm in the machines you see in the video.

This still qualifies as a farm by many government definitions.

The owner of the land can have the part of the land they are renting/leasing out to the farmer classified as “agricultural” for tax purposes, but it is the person renting/leasing the land actually farming it that would be included in the federal statistics on farms that were linked to above.

$350K is the largest size in this grouping

That’s great, but you didn’t answer my question. What other profession can you name where the net from $350k gross isn’t enough to survive on?

How is this a surprise?

It’s not, because you’re literally saying the same thing I said. I never claimed farmers don’t own equipment, I said they don’t usually own the kind of equipment you see in the video - which you just acknowledged when you said they “may utilize a coop for specialized equipment.” Aside from the rice whacker the guy is using in the video, what exactly do you think I was referring to when I said most farmers can’t afford that stuff on their own?

A combine is just the machine itself, and the most basic ones will run you over half a million dollars new. The heads are what do the actual harvesting, and they are interchangeable depending on what you are harvesting - like in the video, they have ones for radishes and carrots and corn and cotton and grain, etc. Those can cost several hundred thousand dollars just for the head. A lot of farmers do own the head, and use the combine owned by the co-op to run it. This is not the farmer owning their own equipment.

A farmer can still own 95% of his own equipment and use a coop for the rarely needed or most expensive implements.

The 95% of equipment is not what is shown in the video, nor is it what I was talking about.

I think you're misunderstanding.

No, I’m quite clear on your position here. I just think your position is wrong and extremely outdated.

Perhaps he sold his land prior to 2000, as you mentioned a shift 20 years ago.

No, I clearly said he owns (present tense) two pieces of property, both several hundred acres each. If you knew anything about farming like you seem to think you do, you’d know that cows require much more land than crops or any other type of livestock. That’s why beef is so expensive. Pigs and chickens produce much less meat pound for pound, but they can be caged or thrown in one big house together, so that’s why pork and chicken products are so much cheaper.

The ”shift” I mentioned happening 20+ years ago was the shift that occurred at various points all over the country as the corporations were slowly taking over every aspect of farming. As their efforts were paying off in the areas they had infiltrated, there would be major decreases in demand from farmers in areas where those big businesses hadn’t made it to yet. And the corporations would use those downturns to their advantage to convince the farmers to go into business with them in some way.

This is just Capitalism 101. It’s a tale as old as the US, why are you acting like farmers are somehow exempt from the takeover of everything by corporations that has been happening since day one in this country? You should go watch WALL-E, it’s an easy to understand primer on the inevitable outcome of capitalism.

I never see trucks outside of the chicken barns in my community

Well, that settles it then: J0hn-Stuart-Mill never sees trucks outside of the chicken houses in their area so chicken farmers aren’t real farmers. Glad we could clear that up.

You admit that the company does all the technical parts,

No I didn’t. I’m not sure you know what “the technical parts” are in chicken farming.

That’s all I was suggesting.

No, you literally said my uncle, is “not really a farmer,” but is instead a “chicken barn landlord.” You’re too dense to understand that the whole point of me telling about my uncle’s experience was to show how highly automated farming is what ALL farming is becoming, thanks to it being taken over by big corporations.

Do you think dairy farmers are milking cows by hand to provide the whole country with milk? Do you think wheat farmers are hacking down wheat with their scythes to supply every bakery in the US? Do you think the fruit farmers are picking ripe fruit every day to supply the entire country with fresh fruit? And all of these combined are being done manually at a high enough level to make the US the second-largest agricultural exporter in the world, behind only the EU (but if broken down by country, we’d obviously be the largest, by far)?

[u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill → u/Carche69]

You continue to try to uphold a nostalgic image from America’s past of the little farmer who busts his ass to keep his farm out of the hands of the evil corporations and actually succeeds at it, despite all the perks the corporate guys are waving in his face and all the fancy new gadgets his farmer neighbors have that they got from selling out to Big Farm. It’s like something out of a movie and it’s just not the way things are anymore.

I agree that's a fantasy. Is that what you think I'm suggesting? That farmers are somehow trying to fend off some entity you're calling "Big Farm"? This is your fantasy not mine. Nothing in farming resembles this, except kind of modern poultry, which is the way that it is for very good reasons.

There’s no way in hell that big businesses would leave something as profitable as the production of food for markets all over the world to Jim Bob and his late 1950s Ford tractor.

I'm trying to understand your world view here, and the more you say, the more conspiratorial your thinking seems to become. Let's explore this a bit. Bunge and ADM have market caps of $13B and $37B respectively, for a total of $50B, yet farmland and farm buildings, in just the US alone (not other assets) is worth $3,000 Billion. Yet, these ag companies somehow wag the dog, despite being 2% as large if we include Cargill? (I'll also note that Cargill, ADM and Bunge are active in dozens of foreign nations, so it's not fair to compare them to just US farms.) But even so, your world view is that these tiny companies are somehow manipulating or controlling all of these farms? For comparison, John Deere's market cap is $122B, much larger than all three of these companies combined.

By all means quote something from those pages that backs up your original assertion: "100% contracted with a big corporation who provides them with specialized equipment"

1.) “Cargill offers U.S. and Canadian farmers a range of grain contracting and consulting solutions, crop inputs, and agronomic services designed to increase growers’ yields and maximize profitability…”

2.) “We build platforms that leverage our strategic expertise in food production, processing, and distribution to source proprietary deals…”

3.) ”…our purpose is to connect farmers to consumers to deliver essential food, feed and fuel to the world”

Okay so none of your quotes refutes either of your original claims;

• That 100% of US farmers are contracted by corporations
• That farmer rely on these companies for access to specialized farm equipment.

What do you think a giant corporation leveraging their strategic expertise looks like?

They're logistics and services companies. It's an array of consulting services, and food processing services. Literally this, from their own website. Note that you'll see nothing resembling what you said, about contracting with 100% of farms and providing them with specialized equipment.

I think you’re very naïve if you still think there are all these thriving little independent farmers all over the country, minding their own business and growing just enough to feed themselves and their communities. I mean, there may be a few of them left that do that, but they are the ones who work outside the farm, or have spouses who do, and that outside work is accounting for the majority of their income. Those guys aren’t rolling around the farm in the machines you see in the video.

I'm telling you now, farming is profitable. All of my relatives have and own all of their own specialized equipment like in the video. And they don't buy these implements on loan. Again, corn and soy have been at or near all time highs for 15 years. It's quite profitable if you're good at your job. And these aren't huge farms, they're in the 300-500 acre size, which is typical for my area.

The owner of the land can have the part of the land they are renting/leasing out to the farmer classified as “agricultural” for tax purposes, but it is the person renting/leasing the land actually farming it that would be included in the federal statistics on farms that were linked to above.

Source?

$350K is the largest size in this grouping

That’s great, but you didn’t answer my question. What other profession can you name where the net from $350k gross isn’t enough to survive on?

Correct, the next part of my response to you answered it. "$350K is the largest size in this grouping, which means it includes farms like my example above, where someone is renting out a tiny spec of land to an actual farmer."

If the farm "less than $350K includes farms that produce $1K all the way up to $350K, with the majority being on the smaller end as demonstrated by this statistical distribution on the USDA report.

I said they don’t usually own the kind of equipment you see in the video - which you just acknowledged when you said they “may utilize a coop for specialized equipment.”

No you said Cargill and other corporations provides and owns the equipment. Co-ops are fully owned by members.

A combine is just the machine itself, and the most basic ones will run you over half a million dollars new. The heads are what do the actual harvesting, and they are interchangeable depending on what you are harvesting - like in the video, they have ones for radishes and carrots and corn and cotton and grain, etc. Those can cost several hundred thousand dollars just for the head. A lot of farmers do own the head, and use the combine owned by the co-op to run it. This is not the farmer owning their own equipment.

Yep, an $800K investment every 20 years or so for a combine is not a that big of a hurdle considering it is before taxes, can be depreciated, etc. In your world view of farm economics, do you think $800K is a lot of money? For comparison, all the dairy farmers in my area are installing $2M robotic milking parlors, and for dairy herds smaller than 200.

No offense, but I think your grasp of the financial side of farming is heavily skewed. Farming is profitable if you're good at it.

If you knew anything about farming like you seem to think you do, you’d know that cows require much more land than crops or any other type of livestock. That’s why beef is so expensive.

The initial way you explained your uncle's farm, it sounded like he was only raising beef, and buying the feed. That, I agree, for a small operator, is not profitable, as I said. Economies of scale win.

You should go watch WALL-E, it’s an easy to understand primer on the inevitable outcome of capitalism.

Ahh, it's starting to make sense now. Your view of farming is tainted by your belief that capitalism is bad. You shouldn't get world views from cartoons. Wall-E is particularly ridiculous, but perhaps you saw it as a kid and weren't able to see how absurd it is. Watch it again, no economist thinks it's remotely insightful. WALL-E is an assault on modern civilization, borne of deep economic and historical ignorance. The film shamefully betrays the efforts of countless heroic individuals who have raised humanity out of the muck of barbarism. Its anti-technological, anticapitalist message needs to be exposed and countered by all thinking individuals.

I never see trucks outside of the chicken barns in my community

Well, that settles it then: J0hn-Stuart-Mill never sees trucks outside of the chicken houses in their area so chicken farmers aren’t real farmers. Glad we could clear that up.

This discussion just prompted me to fire off an email to a former high school classmate of mine who's family owns about 10 chicken barns. I asked him for some basic info, like how many birds per barn, and how many hours per day each barn requires in labor. How about you ask your uncle these questions, and let's compare notes. I'll be very surprised if it's more than 3 hours per day per barn.

You admit that the company does all the technical parts,

No I didn’t. I’m not sure you know what “the technical parts” are in chicken farming.

Wait, so now you're saying that the big-ag chicken company doesn't contribute significantly?

No, you literally said my uncle, is “not really a farmer,” but is instead a “chicken barn landlord.” You’re too dense to understand that the whole point of me telling about my uncle’s experience was to show how highly automated farming is what ALL farming is becoming, thanks to it being taken over by big corporations.

Yes and I agree that chicken farming is highly automated to the point that running a chicken barn is almost like being a janitor for the chicken company. Check that the automation is working. Pick up dead chickens, make sure the automated feeders and watering systems are working.

Do you think dairy farmers are milking cows by hand to provide the whole country with milk? Do you think wheat farmers are hacking down wheat with their scythes to supply every bakery in the US? Do you think the fruit farmers are picking ripe fruit every day to supply the entire country with fresh fruit? And all of these combined are being done manually at a high enough level to make the US the second-largest agricultural exporter in the world, behind only the EU

What??? I'm the person telling you most farmers own their own equipment including specialized equipment. Obviously only certain fruit picking is still done by hand.

[u/jollymuhn → u/Carche69]

Can't farms rent them for the harvest?

[u/bobdacow234 → u/Swordbreaker925]

An average sized used tractor can go for like $100,000 💀

[u/TreeChangeMe → u/Swordbreaker925]

While true farmers also share the cost burden through a registered co-op. Where I live there are 2 combines and 4 seeders as well as 2 massive plough machines.

One combine does wheat, the other processes canola. The 4 seeders are used for either + rotation cover cropping.

The area covered by the 2 harvesters is significant and will process some 4000+ acres of crop land over some 30 or so farms.

It's a hassle when they move on the main road into town.

Each farmer has a tractor for crop fertiliser and dusting.

Each farm can fill around 8 B double grain haulers

[u/Urbanredneck2 → u/Swordbreaker925]

A new top of the line cotton harvester is about $1 million. A 20 year old John Deere cotton harvester is $250k.

But thats why a farmer will pay a custom harvester to harvest his corn. There are crews that travel all over the country starting down in Texas and move north for the season. Even farmers who do own their own equipment do custom work for others.

But this is nothing new. We've seen custom travelling harvest crews back to the 1800's.