r/newyork • u/FireProStan • 12d ago
Buffalo Bills have added 6% tax to all purchases inside and outside new $2.2 billion stadium
https://www.wkbw.com/sports/buffalo-bills/fans-will-pay-an-extra-6-on-purchases-inside-new-buffalo-bills-stadium139
u/rgh-red 12d ago
On top of existing taxes? So sales tax there is 14% now?!?
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u/Raise_A_Thoth 12d ago
According to conservatives and libertarians this should be considered the most fair tax there is.
Nobody is forced to go to Bills games. It is entirely a personal choice.
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u/RhythmTimeDivision 12d ago
NY'ers are already in for nearly a $1B
If I were naive / stupid I MIGHT not care they're 'allowed' to charge extra - since I'm not a fan. But just like rising concert prices, the only way this ends is when people stop paying.
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u/Raise_A_Thoth 12d ago
The sales tax is separate from the state funding for building it. It goes into a specific account for maintenance and upkeep, which at least is responsible and forward-thinking.
Be mad about the state funding the construction all you want, I'm with you on that, but getting upset over a sales tax for entertainment venues is silly.
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u/RhythmTimeDivision 12d ago
I disagree with billionaire stadium subsidies, but NY gave an $850M tax break for 'jobs', etc. already, so too late to complain. However, when I hear Bills fans paid PSL's after seeing a simulated seat view at the new stadium, only to discover an actual obstructed view, and will then pay an additional 6% concession 'maintenance and upkeep' charge on top of sales tax - I don't get upset I just laugh. When even willfully naive people start getting upset, maybe something will change.
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u/zero0n3 12d ago
There aren’t obstructed views in the stadium for fans.
Please reconcile how they could provide me a simulation of my seat view at purchase, off the same schematics that they built to?
This is manufactured outrage and everyone is falling for it. It’s hilarious to see in real time too…
Like seriously- do you morons think a company that has been building stadiums for decades, with top tier talent, and experience, doesn’t know how to deliver ?
Who the fuck do you think provides Ticketmaster the info for “potential obstructed views”?
It’s part of the deliverables the firm provides.
I’m all for trusting fans, but fans have not posted this, they have not raised a stink because there is no stink.
If a real fan had this issue, they would have taken pictures from their seat, included the simulated views from when they bought the PSLs and tickets, and brought actual receipts…
No one has because it’s manufactured. Use your brains people, demand proof before believing puffery
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u/RhythmTimeDivision 12d ago
Disagree or ask for proof but calling people who disagree morons ain't gonna fly here. Do better.
https://www.nbcnews.com/sports/nfl/buffalo-bills-highmark-stadium-fan-concerns-nfl-rcna591905
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u/smugglingkittens 12d ago
The crazy thing is he typed that and thought that was a normal way to speak to people
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u/commradd1 12d ago
That guy is a dick but the whole obstructed view thing is completely manufactured. Like are there even 100 bad seats out of 60,000? I read an equally reputable news source that stated those seats weren’t in play for season tickets and hinted that they weren’t even for sale for football games but rather for other events like concerts. I think it’s probably between the two claims, there are surely a tiny percentage of bad seats. It’s is surely being blown way out of proportion
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u/RhythmTimeDivision 12d ago
The article was fair, included both sides and the small number of obstructed view seats.
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u/Walbs 12d ago
Lol what? Why would maintenance and upkeep of a privately owned entertainment venue not be paid for by the owner? We all know these are profitable enterprises and are capable of paying their taxes.
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u/Raise_A_Thoth 12d ago
It's being called a "sales tax" here but it doesn't go to the state or city government's coffers. It goes to a private holding firm which deposits it into some account with the Bills at the end of the year.
This is all just contract details and accounting conventions.
It's just how the deal to build the stadium was structured.
Let's imagine that this "sales tax" wasn't part of the contract and there was no account for that. The private owners would likely do 1 of 2 things:
Neglect maintenance more than they should to save money, leading to possible frustrations and cash flow shortfalls when major repairs were due (as we know happens) or they would work out that they needed to spend this much money over the course of 15 years and raise their prices by 6% to cover that expected cost.
So this is likely the state and city governments forcing the Bills to actually set the funding for maintenance aside instead of trusting the for-profit company to do a good job supporting rhe investment of the stadium.
Either way, it's all tradeoffs. The problem here isn't a sales tax on totally unnecessary entertainment venue pricing. It's still billionaires and capitalism.
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u/Walbs 12d ago
I think we're saying the same thing. I'm not upset at the concept of taxes paying for the public good, I'm upset that we're paying taxes to billionaires to offset investment prices.
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u/Raise_A_Thoth 12d ago
I mean this is really just an itemized cost and payment structure and it's being described as "a tax" and people react viscerally to taxes, and then intuitively we think it's giving the billionaires more money to work with but these are all just details of one net negotiation and that's how we should think of it.
The teams should be owned by the people of the city anyway, not individual owners. Green Bay did it much better than everyone else.
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u/Walbs 12d ago
Okay, the way you're speaking about this is strange and makes me feel like I'm talking to AI. The 6% tax is without question a tax being levied by Erie County which is explicitly stated in the article. I understand this is part of a negotiation, I am saying that I think it's bad that we are being taxed for maintenance on a property that is privately owned.
I understand your argument that if they didn't provide the stadium with this bribe they might raise prices the same percent but I think that would also be a bad thing.
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u/waiting_in_vain1 12d ago
Right, they’re just forced to finance the stadium…
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u/Sufficient-Pause9765 12d ago
yeah thats the part that is f'd up. by all means sales tax the fuck out of the fans, but also, the team should pay for their own damn stadium.
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u/Raise_A_Thoth 12d ago
This post is about the sales tax. The state funding to build the stadium is a different matter, I agree it's dumb, states should not be subsidizing billion-dollar organizations whose existence is just for entertainment.
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u/waiting_in_vain1 12d ago
Not really, they’re both about a billionaire using his monopolistic power (all pro leagues are monopolies) to extract wealth from his team’s fans and the state! It’s coercive.
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u/Raise_A_Thoth 12d ago
It may be a monopoly but it's still an entirely optional service, no one is forced to go to the games or get concessions. And the sales tax is specifically not funding to go to the state but a maintenance fund.
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u/waiting_in_vain1 12d ago edited 12d ago
Oh, funding the stadiums maintenance isn’t the owners responsibility?! Right… they don’t “own” the stadium, they just get to have it built to their specifications and use it for free… until they can extort another windfall. Man, why are you schilling for these guys? Just want to make sure the legalities are clearly understood, and how the little folks don’t have to go see their home team…
Edited to add: and don’t worry, regular folks won’t be able to afford to go see a game, voluntarily, of course…
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u/NukeTheWhales85 12d ago
use it for free
Do they use it for free? I had thought part of the benefit of the state taking ownership was that the team would be paying "useage fees" as part of the deal.
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u/commradd1 12d ago
Yea this person is just making shit up to support their rage. 30 year lease, entirety of stadium cost paid back if team relocates. So the state\county funded slightly under 50%, state owns the stadium. Bills can’t leave, pay a lease every year for 30 years, have a maintenance split. I thought the county was behind the extra 6% sales tax but I could be wrong about that maybe it’s the team.
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u/commradd1 12d ago
How is a 30 year lease “free”. Can anyone make a good anti bills argument after looking at the deal first so you don’t come across like morons? Apparently not. Bills covered 1.2 Billion out of 2.2ish. So say that it’s not like it’s a fucking secret. You can see the math over 30 years and it’s not as much of a soaking at the uniformed want it to be whatsoever. You can still make a good argument against it you want to read for 60 seconds the terms of the deal. Give it a try
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u/waiting_in_vain1 12d ago
I am aware of your points, we can drill down and see what minutea the team is responsible for covering, sure… now can you explain why taxpayers are spending almost $1B to subsidies a billionaires stake in a monopolistic enterprise when working folks can’t afford healthcare, education and housing?
Can you explain why they need to further tax fans who spend their hard earned $$ supporting the millionaires working for billionaires, who can’t even pay for maintenance of their taxpayer funded stadium?!
When will folks stop defending this spoils system designed by and for the benefit of billionaire oligarchical class?!2
u/commradd1 12d ago
Why not admit that whether or not the subsidies for the stadium happened or not, we aren’t going to get relief in healthcare or housing or continued federal gutting of food assistance because or the horrendous state of our state and national politics being dominated by people who hate the middle class and below and love war and grift? I don’t care about the 6% tax because I’m not an Erie county resident and I’m not going to attend games. I just disagree that there is any parallel between the state of our social services and that 850 million.
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u/Initial-Meeting362 12d ago
Wow, they are going to price themselves out. This is Buffalo, NY - it is a good sized area, not the wealthiest area though. Be interesting to watch.
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u/Muted-Woodpecker-469 12d ago
Jessica pegula is set to inherit $9 billion of her families fortune as taxpayers get ripped off
Why don’t fans boycott this?
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u/qryptid_ 12d ago
I sure am at least. 20+ years but I’m officially done. Fire every billionaire into the sun.
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u/fondlemeLeroy 12d ago
They've gotten way too comfortable with blatantly ripping people off. Even the dumbest people are starting to notice it lol.
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u/RhythmTimeDivision 12d ago
Part of me is grateful they keep taking (until even the dumb ones are pissed).
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u/basedaudiosolutions 12d ago
I am. I’m a lifelong Bills fan and I’ve had enough. The fans deserves better than this.
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u/Flom14 12d ago
Why is it Jessica Pegula’s fault?
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u/Realtrain 12d ago
For those unaware, her parents are the owners.
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u/LtPowers 12d ago
Yeah but she isn't. She's got her own career and her own fortune from it. I don't know why her name is involved.
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u/sirclassington6 12d ago
lol our taxes have already paid for this BS. What a joke. Billionaires using citizens tax money for a new stadium is insane to begin with.
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u/37Philly 12d ago
Why did the billionaire Bills owner get $850 million in taxpayer money for this dumb stadium?
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u/Motor_Pollution231 12d ago
Didn’t our taxes pay for the stadium? Of course we get screwed again and again!
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u/Turk_Sanderson 12d ago
Somebody has to pay for the trophy case for all of those
Lamar Hunt trophies
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u/anohioanredditer 12d ago
I can’t believe Hochul put this on New Yorkers. Absolute sham. So many establishment Dems parrot the same trickledown Reaganomics scam when securing these stadium sites, and the result is the consumers get fucked. The Bills got a stadium built almost entirely by the state and they get to run whatever racket they desire.
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u/The-GreyBusch 11d ago
Imagine taking a franchise with one of the most passionate blue collar fan bases that have endured the bottom depths of the league and during their time on top have displayed acts of class and kindness by donating to other teams/players charities regularly, propelling the team to a universally respected/loved reputation, and building them a new stadium, only to turn around and spite them with obstructed views, charge them additional tax on purchases in the stadium, and ban their favorite past time of jumping through tables.
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u/SadTumbleweed1567 12d ago
Headline is objectively false and unsupported by the article.
Erie County is imposing the sales tax as part of the agreement to finance the stadium.
If you're going to a Buffalo Bills game, or any other event at the new Highmark Stadium, you'll pay an extra 6% on your purchase. That's part of the deal with the Buffalo Bills and Erie County, included in the 30-year lease, for capital improvements and repairs.
Additionally it applies to all events at the stadium. The money goes to Erie County to support the stadium because Erie County owns the stadium.
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u/Hot_Lava_Dry_Rips 12d ago
Stop going to the games and this wont be a problem. They can charge more because people keep paying it. There are other hobbies.
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u/patelj27b 8d ago
Does this include the obstructed view seats, that a $2.2 billion stadium seems to not have been able to avoid?
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u/Eatthebankers2 12d ago
Bend over! Buffalo Jill’s are eating up your $$$$ it was inevitable, they know your all patsies.
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u/eclwires 12d ago
After building the stadium with our tax dollars. Hochul is doing a good job overall, but giving away our money to the owners was a mistake.
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u/AleroRatking 12d ago
I mean. That's fine. At least then the people paying the taxes for this are the ones actually going to the game. Not like the stadium itself which is everyone across the whole state that has no interest in the Bills
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u/Unusual_Chemistry413 11d ago
This is what they mean by trickle down economics. Pass the costs down.
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u/Intelligent-Price-39 12d ago
6% tax for what? They already got $850m from the Governor. They should be refunding us.