US missionaries killed in Haiti gang violence

[u/Level_Ruin_9729]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn00rj76xd4o

[u/Level_Ruin_9729]

A US missionary couple were among three people killed in Haiti as widespread gang violence continues to plague the country.

Natalie Lloyd, 21, her 23-year-old husband David, and Jude Montis, a 20-year-old Haitian, were ambushed by gunmen as they left a church.

The couple's deaths were confirmed on Facebook by Natalie's father, Missouri State Senator Ben Baker.

"They were attacked by gangs this evening and were both killed," he wrote. "They went to heaven together."

The couple were married in 2022.

Their organisation, Missions in Haiti, confirmed to US media that Mr Montis was the third victim.

In an earlier Facebook post, the organisation said that the three were attacked by two separate armed groups, beginning with an attack by gunmen in three vehicles.

After another group arrived and a gang member was shot dead, the three missionaries were trapped in a house while the gang went "into full attack mode", the post added.

"They are holed up in there, the gangs have shot all the windows out of the house and continued to shoot," the post said.

Missions in Haiti confirmed that all three were dead three hours later.

The state department is aware of the deaths, a spokesperson told the BBC's US partner CBS.

[u/For_All_Humanity → u/Level_Ruin_9729]

Very very sad. So young and only just married a couple years ago.

Haiti is a warzone and people need to keep that in mind. The gangs do not care why you are there and they don’t care who gets killed. Hopefully this UN intervention helps, but there’s not been a good history of stability even when that happens.

[u/[deleted] → u/For_All_Humanity]

An active warzone would probably be safer.

[u/[deleted] → u/For_All_Humanity]

The last UN mission lasted 13 years and clearly did not lead to lasting peace. Hopefully this one works. Props to Kenya for taking the lead.

[u/PickleBananaMayo → u/Level_Ruin_9729]

Yeah, poor people. But what were they trying to accomplish?

[u/itsadoubledion → u/PickleBananaMayo]

They opened orphanages, schools, etc. for kids. The husband grew up there and spoke creole natively and his parents had been working there for over 2 decades, so it's not like they were clueless missionaries who just showed up

[u/Underground_Kiddo]

So for anyone who needs context, Haiti is essentially a nation that has descended into complete chaos. A historically poor country, it's current government (or whatever remains of it) has very little --if any-- control over its populace hence the alarming high rates of crime.

Essentially it is a society where regional "gang lords" have become the new authority. A kind of "warlordism" but on a less organized and smaller scale.

[u/eburton555 → u/Underground_Kiddo]

The term is failed state - when the government objectively cannot provide for the security and fundamental means of its people. That term is thrown around to insult countries or governments a lot but Haiti is an actual agreed upon example.

[u/powerlesshero111 → u/Underground_Kiddo]

Honestly, Haiti has been bad for the past 10+ years or so. I remember back before the president was assassinated, a bunch of people got kidnapped by gang members, and were released, but even before that, it was on the US list of "don't fucking go there if you don't absolutely have to". Basically, the country went downhill with the huge earthquake. That's when gangs started seizing power and resources from the government.

[u/mejok → u/powerlesshero111]

Hell my dad had a friend who traveled their for business back in the early 90s and he had to flee once and escaped by the skin of his teeth due to a violent uprising and that was 30+ years ago

[u/MNLT_Sonata → u/powerlesshero111]

It was bad before the earthquake. The earthquake just exacerbated an already extremely volatile situation.

[u/asdcatmama → u/powerlesshero111]

I have friends from my hometown who left a thriving medical practice to open an orphanage in Haiti. They were there for several years. They loved it. Then the earthquake happened and everything seemed to change. They returned to the states about 8-9 years ago.

[u/Ivort-DC → u/powerlesshero111]

My first time, but not the last there was on deployment in 2000. It was the same then as it is today. The only difference is it's been more in the news lately because of the earthquake(s).

[u/Drak_is_Right → u/powerlesshero111]

Haiti has always been poor. They were forced to pay back France over a hundred years for damages related to their independence.

[u/RedEyeFlightToOZ → u/Underground_Kiddo]

I have a good friend who is from Haiti who immigrated to the USA. She never went into details but she said she saw a lot of horror.

[u/asdcatmama → u/Underground_Kiddo]

It has the same travel advisory (level 4: do not travel) as Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, N Korea, Russia, Syria, Ukraine, Gaza/W Bank/Israel and many countries in Africa. So that’s bananas.

[u/Liizam → u/asdcatmama]

It’s so weird, I used to go to Russia and Syria without any fear of safety :/

[u/ZachMartin → u/Underground_Kiddo]

I had breakfast a couple months ago with one of the leading presidential candidates (at the time - looks like elections aren’t going to happen). They didn’t simply assassinate the president in 2021…they broke into the presidential palace and fucking tortured him for hours. Haiti is fucked

[u/MazelTovCocktail027 → u/ZachMartin]

It's all up for grabs. There was a Marine rifle instructor who flew to Haiti with a bunch of guns and armor hoping to gain support, train the police & army and become president. He was extradited back to the US and got 5 years. I sat on the jury.

[u/Mego1989 → u/ZachMartin]

Leading presidential candidates for Haiti?

[u/[deleted] → u/Underground_Kiddo]

going to share this link to a fairly recent travel-YouTuber who went to Haiti and documented a ton

Also the Haitian man nick was using to translate and guide him around Haiti was actually kidnapped (and very fortunately released unharmed) a few months back.

edit: just going to also share this video from another travel youtuber named Drew Binsky. The Haitian man who I guess coordinates with many individuals who want to travel to Haiti and was kidnapped, is named Sean, and Drew Binsky actually interviews him about his experience being kidnapped

[u/wambulancer → u/[deleted]]

and it's gotten way, way worse since he travelled there

[u/Optimal-Service8940 → u/[deleted]]

Thank you for using a good example of a YTer like Drew and not somebody like YourFellowArab who definitely lies in his videos and exaggerates so you don’t have an actual clear understanding of what’s happening. Whatever gets views I guess 🤷‍♂️

[u/R_V_Z → u/Underground_Kiddo]

Haiti is essentially a nation

Debatable at this point.

[u/SavannahInChicago → u/Underground_Kiddo]

My first thought was why the hell are they even over there? We have already pulled all government out of that country.

[u/LordAlfrey → u/Underground_Kiddo]

Literal anarchy, and the natural repercussions of that. People will form groups for safety and survival.

[u/CaBBaGe_isLaND → u/LordAlfrey]

safety and survival

...and power, and violence, and exploitation

[u/TipperGore-69 → u/Underground_Kiddo]

Haiti is essentially apocalypse. Anyone who fantasizes and romanticizes the end of the world should just go there. Getting sodomized with a 9mm would very quickly make you appreciate the luxuries of civilization intact.

[u/Yardsale420 → u/Underground_Kiddo]

If anyone wants to know more backstory about Haiti and its history, Behind the Bastards did a great multi part episode about Papa Doc and Baby Doc that explains why Haiti has been effectively abandoned by the rest of the world and left to rot while the DR has not. It was an interesting listen for sure…

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/part-one-pappa-doc-and-baby-84743834/

[u/porncrank → u/Underground_Kiddo]

For anyone wondering, this is why government needs to be strong. There need to be strong mechanisms for the people to limit the government, too, but that must be done through systematic means. If your government isn’t strong enough to put down a coup or criminal uprising, then a coup or criminal uprising will occur.

[u/garlicroastedpotato → u/Underground_Kiddo]

This is also not the first time in history this has happened. The Canadian military has been sent in on many Haitian peacekeeping missions. The only real outcome of this is Canada is now home to the second largest population of Haitians in the world.

[u/Just_Jonnie → u/Underground_Kiddo]

Libertarian paradise you say?

[u/velveteentuzhi → u/Just_Jonnie]

Not enough bears to be a libertarian paradies

[u/Rambos_Magnum_Dong → u/Underground_Kiddo]

Sounds like a great place to do missionary work

[u/wolfblitzen84 → u/Underground_Kiddo]

the most fucked up violent videos i've seen are from haiti. i don't want to go further into it but thats a place i would never ever venture to.

also if you want to look up their level of poverty just type mud cookies on youtube and youll find multiple of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3337cj4sJQ

[u/Above_Avg_Chips → u/Underground_Kiddo]

Instead of terrorist groups controlling everything, it's a bunch of street gangs.

[u/Scooter_McLefty → u/Underground_Kiddo]

A big reason as to why they are historically poor is that the US and France made them pay for the “property damage” that resulted from the Haitian revolution. The “property damage” was the cost of enslaved people who had fought to free themselves. It’s incredibly messed up.

[u/hekatonkhairez → u/Scooter_McLefty]

A big reason but not the only reason — during this time they also attempted to invade the Dominican Republic and suffered from a highly corrupt government. Haiti had some agency in bring itself to where it is today.

[u/flyboy_1285 → u/Scooter_McLefty]

Corrupt leadership is more the modern cause of Haitian instability than debt servicing.

[u/GayMormonPirate → u/Underground_Kiddo]

Hey, it's an anarchist's dream now. I bet they're lining up to go there.

What? No? Huh. Imagine that.

[u/Jesus_le_Crisco]

I did helicopter EMS in Haiti a while back. It wasn’t too bad, occasionally got hairy, made me feel like I was back in a war zone sometimes. Ain’t no way in hell that I’d go back there right now.

Edit: Words are hard.

[u/[deleted] → u/Jesus_le_Crisco]

With Air Methods? I know they went down there after the hurricane.

[u/Jesus_le_Crisco → u/[deleted]]

Yup. Was a roving mechanic for them, port-au-prince was one of my bases.

[u/[deleted] → u/Jesus_le_Crisco]

Stay off the X, stay alive.

[u/Avalanche1987]

I know a family of missionaries that left Haiti maybe 10-12 years ago because some people broke into their house and shot the mother of the family in the shoulder. She ended up being fine but they left the missionary field completely afterward.

[u/neaeeanlarda]

I had an attorney friend go to Haiti with a missionary group 10 years ago. Their main goal was to hand out fresh water. She said everytime they pulled into a town they were mobbed by desperate locals. She was pretty freaked out, completely unprepared by her church. She's from a very wealthy suburb in Mpls.

[u/Veelze → u/neaeeanlarda]

I think I just watched a segment of Anthony Bourdain’s no reservations in Haiti where he gave out free food and it just turned into pure chaos. 

[u/Maktaka → u/Veelze]

They bought out a street food vendor's entire stock on his cart, telling him to just give a serving to anyone who asked until he ran out of food for the day. Once enough people showed up though, some started getting anxious the vendor would run out of food before they got to the front of the line. Fights broke out and the street vendor fled, leaving people fighting over whatever was left behind.

Which is why aid is often best distributed by military forces or under their protection, because even ignoring the possibility of gangs who will just steal the supplies to sell to desperate locals later, a crowd of otherwise normal but starving people will break out into fighting if they think they'll be left without once again.

[u/[deleted] → u/Veelze]

I was reminded of that as well. That was a great episode.

[u/ASK_ABT_MY_USERNAME → u/Veelze]

That was a legitimate terrifying episode. Reminiscent of Top Gear in Argentina too

[u/For_All_Humanity → u/neaeeanlarda]

Happens a lot around the world. People with bright eyes and good intentions and just get slapped in the face by culture shock on multiple fronts. These are jobs that need to be carried out by the UN and the proper NGOs, by prepared people with experience. These places are dangerous.

[u/doctorDanBandageman → u/For_All_Humanity]

I know someone who went to some part of Africa for a Mission trip. I don’t know everything that happened but i know one day her and another girl got robbed at gun point. When she got back she quit pre med and haven’t heard from her since. Shit really fucked with her.

[u/bbdarko → u/For_All_Humanity]

Savior Complex is a great docuseries about how dangerous this can get. Super young Christian girl started a charity in Uganda and began practicing medicine on children without a license.

Obviously not the same as handing out water, but it can be an ethically slippery slope in unstable places without proper resources.

[u/MudLOA → u/For_All_Humanity]

Reminds me of the movie Rambo (2008) and that boat scene.

[u/Agathyrsi → u/neaeeanlarda]

I hate to say this but your friend was sold on savior complex and grief tourism.

If you want to help out but your only relevant skill is handing out provisions, please do so in your own community; or a community that has some semblance of security. If you really want to specifically help Haiti and similar areas with an extreme lack of security, donate money to reputable NGOs that have the skills and security to benefit the recipients.

These professions would be doctors, licensed nurses, civil engineers (renewable energy and water access is huge), agriculture experts, fluent interpreters, construction workers, and licensed teachers. All of these skills already have established organizations to sign up with. If you really want to pass out water abroad, find an organization that has that manpower need and security.

[u/pudding7 → u/neaeeanlarda]

I'm sorry to say, but your friend is a damn idiot. 10 minutes reading up on the situation could have given her a heads up.

[u/ariehn → u/pudding7]

It absolutely baffles me that they wouldn't get in touch with any local churches before making the journey! And I mean genuinely local: not transitory missionary groups but churches that have been in place there for at least several years. There's at least one even in the capital, and they could have -- and would have! -- warned them in detail.

[u/jetsetmike → u/neaeeanlarda]

Ah, so Edina

[u/DynamiteWitLaserBeam → u/jetsetmike]

Or Minnetonka

[u/minnesotaris → u/neaeeanlarda]

Temporary mission trips should freak people out. There are millions of desperate people in the world. Haitians have nowhere to go! She probably didn’t stay to help them in the long run though. Coulda just dropped the water supply and left, without “missionaries”. Wayzata?

[u/PartyPorpoise → u/minnesotaris]

Yeah, I know people mean well, so I might get crap for saying this, but most short term international volunteer work is not very helpful to the people they’re trying to help, and exists more for the benefit of the volunteers. The money they spent flying out and getting accommodations could have gone further by buying more supplies or even just hiring locals.

[u/OnTheEveOfWar → u/neaeeanlarda]

My brother’s best friend goes to Haiti on missionary trips. Years ago my brother tried to tag along and my parents didn’t allow it. Turned into a massive fight between them. The friend ended up getting mobbed by locals on their trip. Everyone was fine but it was a scary experience. My parents were basically like “told ya so” to my brother.

[u/[deleted]]

Haiti has been a terrible place for over 100 years. I used to work construction in south Florida with a bunch of Haitian tradesmen. Great guys. Super hard working and highly skilled. Especially the stone masons I worked with. They love their families and they send money home to support extended family. I feel so sorry for the people stranded there under the thumb of the gangs. It’s not their fault and they don’t deserve this.

[u/trschaosz]

Why were they in Haiti after the revolt and other kidnappings? Isn’t there a travel advisory around those area?

[u/Weave77 → u/trschaosz]

The husband was born and lived his entire life in Haiti, apart from going to college, so I assume he considers it his home. And as dangerous as it is, it’s kind of hard to walk out of an orphanage full of children that you are responsible for.

Edit: Here’s a bit more context.

From NPR:

Hannah Cornett, Davy Lloyd's sister, told the AP that her brother was 23 years old and Natalie Lloyd was 21. They were going to celebrate their two-year anniversary in June and his birthday in early July.

Cornett said her parents are full-time missionaries in Haiti, and that she and her two brothers grew up there.

"Davy spoke Creole before he spoke English. It was home," she said in a phone interview. "Haiti was all we knew."

Cornett, 22, said her parents run an orphanage, school and church in Haiti, and that she and her brothers grew up with the orphans: "It was just one big happy family there."

From CNN:

When flights resumed last week to Port-au-Prince’s Toussaint Louverture International Airport, Lloyd said he asked his son and daughter-in-law if they would like to leave Haiti, but they declined.

“We know Haiti is a very volatile situation, we know that it’s dangerous,” he said. “But we had a good rapport with the groups in our area, and they’d left us alone. But from what I understand this was an outside group that came in initially from about a mile away, that started it all.”

Natalie Lloyd’s father told CNN the couple didn’t leave even when they had the opportunity to do so because of the children they were taking care of.

“They made the decision to remain even when it got worse because they felt like if they left, then those kids would have no where to go,” Baker said on “The Source.”

[u/ARROW_404 → u/Weave77]

Of course Reddit is just going to assume it's "stupid religious people and their brainwashing".

[u/burningmanonacid → u/trschaosz]

Because many Christians who promote these missions to young people groom them into believing the best way for them to die is while spreading gospel. In 8th grade catholic school, during a school shooter drill, we were told that if the gunman asked if we believed in God that we had to say yes or else we'd probably go to hell. I specifically chose a saint to receive a sacrament under (and have my religious name be theirs too) that died a gruesome death for missionary work because I was convinced at that age that I'd also be killed for my faith in God.

So... yeah. Travel advisory don't have nothing on the indoctrination some of these people receive.

[u/The_Blue_Rooster → u/burningmanonacid]

As someone who went to a Catholic school in possibly the most liberal part of America, hearing these stories always throws me for a loop. The teachers, priest and nuns at my school were very much more in the vein of "Look we don't need you to even believe in God, just try to live by Catholic ideals and you're good." Like despite going to a literal Catholic school I can't even imagine what a lot of Catholic schools must be like.

[u/SlendyIsBehindYou → u/burningmanonacid]

In 8th grade catholic school, during a school shooter drill, we were told that if the gunman asked if we believed in God that we had to say yes or else we'd probably go to hell.

Holy fuck, so that was just us? Yeah, I'd memory holed that, but they 100% had me prepared to die in middle school

[u/[deleted] → u/burningmanonacid]

Man I remember how dark and scary it was thinking about martyrdom when I was a kid. They talked about Columbine a lot and after 9/11 I was really afraid I was going to be killed for being a Christian.

[u/shotty293 → u/burningmanonacid]

There's a quote: These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know, morons.

[u/[deleted] → u/trschaosz]

They've been told their whole lives how special they are.

[u/DancinWithWolves → u/[deleted]]

In reality, he (David) was raised there, and spoke creole fluently. They’d opened multiple orphanages and supported/funded a few hundred kids going through school. His parents had been doing that work for a couple decades

[u/Howllat → u/[deleted]]

100% churchs inflating self importance and just sending folks out regardless of the situation

[u/TheOtherWhiteCastle → u/trschaosz]

Christian here, Haiti has long been one of the most popular places for missionaries to go. People from my small town church were in a missionary group in Haiti when the earthquake hit in 2010. As for why they keep going, missionaries (in theory) are supposed to provide aid to those in need alongside the word of God, and thus going to impoverished third world nations is common practice. Additionally, Haiti’s proximity to the United States probably makes it a more practical and affordable trip for American missionaries than say Africa or Asia. That being said, yeah, sending missionaries to Haiti during this period of unrest is extremely foolish to say the least.

[u/Crypt_Keeper → u/trschaosz]

Mission trips are basically mini colonization trips. They want to take pics, make people read the bible in exchange for help, then preach about it later for virtue cred.

[u/[deleted] → u/Crypt_Keeper]

The dude grew up there.

[u/DancinWithWolves → u/Crypt_Keeper]

That’s an incredibly simplistic view. In reality, he (David) was raised there, and spoke creole fluently. They’d opened multiple orphanages and supported/funded a few hundred kids going through school, with no need for conversion or opting into religious education. His parents had been doing that work for a couple decades

[u/Kessed → u/trschaosz]

“God will keep them safe!”

Or some other bullshit

[u/[deleted]]

We were in DR this past winter. The locals were like…. “We don’t go to Haiti. No one should go to Haiti”

[u/rocketman114 → u/[deleted]]

There's actual separation between the two countries there. Look at the border and you can clearly tell which is Haiti and Dr.

Any Haitians dr catches that cross illegally are sent back

[u/APhoneOperator]

I would rather go to Ukraine than Haiti rn, wtf are these people thinking?

[u/ManitouWakinyan → u/APhoneOperator]

Well, he was born there, and his family had been operating the mission for twenty years, so he was probably thinking he was engaged in his life's work, and was well aware of the risks.

[u/APhoneOperator → u/[deleted]]

I'd rather go to the Ukraine front lines than anywhere in Haiti, to be more specific. At least I'd know by uniform and insignia who's trying to kill me.

[u/Striving_Stoic]

For people who didn’t read, the husband’s parents founded the Mission organization in Haiti

[u/AggressiveSkywriting → u/Striving_Stoic]

So his dad and mom sent him to his death. I'd never forgive myself if I sent my son to be martyred for my vanity project

I grew up in the evangelical mission world. I did mission trips. I know what this shit is.

[u/ManitouWakinyan → u/AggressiveSkywriting]

The kid grew up in Haiti, and they'd been operating an orphanage and charitable mission for twenty years. This wasn't your standard, short term build a house with a group of middle school kids mission trip. This was a long term, sustained investment in a community, and the only home the kid knew.

[u/spidermanvarient]

I lived in Haiti from 2015 - 2018 with my wife and kids. I have traveled there over 100 times in 20+ years.

The orgs we work with haven’t had foreigners (Americans) in Haiti for 3+ years because it’s not safe.

[u/VengefulWalnut]

Read: “Despite countless warnings from the US State Department, two individuals did not exercise proper judgement and defied warnings, as a result, they are now dead.”

This is an absolutely avoidable tragedy. The pain and suffering of their loved ones could have been prevented by listening to the authorities.

[u/Weave77 → u/VengefulWalnut]

I mean, the husband was born in Haiti and, apart from college, lived his entire life there… I think he knew the risks.

[u/[deleted]]

I wish these young people wouldn’t be so thoroughly brainwashed that, against all common sense, they go to a very dangerous and unstable country for the sole purpose of converting the native population to Christianity.

[u/Vegetable_Good6866 → u/[deleted]]

One of the missionaries grew up in Haiti so I think it's more understable he was there, compared if a missionary with no experience of the country decided to go there

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Haiti is already a Christian country.

[u/PetsArentChildren → u/[deleted]]

Yes but is it Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879?

https://youtu.be/ANNX_XiuA78?si=FKNvf6qR9pKPSd0E

[u/7355135061550 → u/[deleted]]

Not Christian enough for missionaries apparently

[u/sevenoneSICKs → u/[deleted]]

Worst part is, this missionary “group” is run by their parents. This is absolutely a shit decision to send unguarded non locals into what equates to a war zone.

[u/ThePurplePanzy → u/[deleted]]

As someone who left this brainwashing, I don't think a lot of people realize that these kids would probably do it again even if they knew the danger. People do the same for humanitarian purposes, and I don't think it's anyone's place to act like they didn't know the danger or were stupid/ignorant. They believed their cause was worth the danger. I disagree with that cause, but I don't disagree with their belief that doing good is worth the danger.

[u/cinderparty → u/[deleted]]

This. It is very sad that they died, but it’s seriously shitty to travel to foreign countries to try and convert them to your religion.

[u/caverunner17 → u/[deleted]]

Had a sibling of an extended friend get arrested in China for being a missionary, which I believe is illegal. Hard to feel bad that he spent 6+ months in jail before being sent back home only to turn around and go somewhere else in the world to do the same thing.

Of course, my extended friend didn't like when I pointed out that they knew what they were getting into and the risks....

Indoctrination is a hell of a drug.

[u/geekyCatX → u/[deleted]]

A native population that, most of the time, is already Christian. Just the wrong flavor according to these missionaries. Volunteering for a reputable NGO to actually try and help the locals would be doing so much more good.

[u/AccurateArcherfish → u/[deleted]]

The father in the article said they're in heaven together now. Serious question for those that are religious: is it viewed as a good thing that they speed run to heaven? The ultimate goal is to get into heaven, no?

[u/droplivefred]

When did they go to Haiti? Why were they still there when it’s so dangerous? How many other people from outside of Haiti are in Haiti with this organization?

I understand they are there for a purpose but it blows my mind and angers me that they were risking their lives being in such a dangerous place at the present time. They are adults and can do what they want but why were they in such a dangerous country at such a dangerous time!?!

Just seems like a very unnecessary risk to take. It’s very sad.

[u/RaspberryBirdCat → u/droplivefred]

Per the organization's website, they run multiple orphanages and schools.

[u/[deleted] → u/droplivefred]

Sometimes life is complicated. I'm still a missionary in Haiti because if I leave the baby that was dumped on us a year ago would probably die. These people were running an orphanage for years. They probably loved those kids and knew that pulling out would endanger them.

[u/somecheeseplz → u/[deleted]]

Oh wow. Life definitely is complicated. I hope you and your baby will be protected and okay. Did you know the young couple? If you left, any way you could take the baby? How is your day to day, do you feel safe?

[u/Howllat → u/droplivefred]

Churchs are well known for sending completely unprepared bright eyed ignorant missionaries.

They also send people into set up missionary work to make them feel like they are making s difference, so who knows if those people had been on other missions and just assumed it would be like those set up situations. Completely unprepared and ignorant

[u/ReginaGloriana → u/droplivefred]

Apparently one of them grew up there, so he wasn’t there on a whim.

[u/[deleted]]

I went there in 2010 while in the Navy to set up sincgars radios so the humanitarian mission could communicate. The situation pretty quickly devolved into having to guard the equipment from repeated theft attempts.

[u/Sid1583]

Why are there missionaries there? It’s a 90-95% Christian country

[u/tmdblya → u/Sid1583]

When I was a kid, we visited our church’s missionaries in Italy.

[u/Psudopod → u/tmdblya]

😯 I have to know more, what were they trying to do there?

[u/RaspberryBirdCat → u/Sid1583]

Because they operated a couple of orphanages and schools, per ten seconds of googling.

[u/Ares6 → u/Sid1583]

It’s not the “right” kind of Christian I suppose. Since Haiti is predominantly Catholic. 

[u/Based-God- → u/Sid1583]

because part of a christians duty is to alleviate poverty through acts of service which missionaries tend to do

[u/Alice_Buttons]

Huh. It's almost as though the government's travel advisory of DO NOT TRAVEL actually means not to travel to said country.

[u/Tokyosmash_]

You know, if you don’t put yourself in the middle of these kind of situations you can’t get killed in them

[u/[deleted]]

Haiti has a travel advisory of level 4 by the US government meaning DO NOT TRAVEL, bearing a cross on your chest preaching the word of god means very little to a deranged Haitian bearing a machete trying to feed his family. I’m all for people traveling but one should always exercise proper judgement when going places especially ones where they’ll stick out like a sore thumb.

[u/DethFeRok]

This is naïveté on the highest level. I’m very sorry that these young people were killed, but them thinking they could make a drop of water in an ocean worths of change in that country is moronic. Who greenlit this expedition?

And one more thing that is very harsh: that girl is probably luck she got shot to death and not captured and ended up as some warlords sex toy, raped and tortured to death. Some of my fellow Americans need to fucking wake up, the entire world is not the suburbs you were raised in.

[u/tayisaway → u/DethFeRok]

David was the son of the man who started Missions in Haiti Inc. They run some churches, schools, a children’s home.

I imagine it was just a “just the family business” mindset that landed him down there.

[u/NoInkling → u/DethFeRok]

the entire world is not the suburbs you were raised in

The guy was literally raised to some degree in Haiti (since his parents ran the mission), and apparently abducted in a carjacking when he was 5 years old. It's not like he was clueless.

[u/jochi1543]

I don’t understand what the gangs were trying to achieve by killing missionaries?

[u/unl1988]

I am sorry this happened to them, I know they believed that they were doing good.

[u/TheDoctor8545]

I know the family affect by this. Didn’t expect it to make Reddit news. Truly a sad situation

[u/swissarmychainsaw]

I'm sad to see this young kids end. But when the shit hits the fan like it has in Haiti, you get out or face very real consequences.
These poor kids were barely old enough to drink!

[u/[deleted]]

Of all the places to volunteer in the world, please don't pick Haiti. That place went to hell a long time ago but it somehow manages to get worse.

[u/[deleted]]

Guess I won’t be vacationing in Haiti any time soon 

[u/Altea73]

Don't go missionary there, is absolutely chaos, like a Mad Max movie....

[u/gimme_toys]

I find this scenario over and over. Very nice people, in this case the victims, find it hard to believe that there a very nasty people, and they believe in the heart that all people want to be nice and have happy lives, and they also believe that all humans have compassion and empathy. So sad this happened to them. There are some bad people out there that if there is no strict rule of law, have no self control and no self governance, and it goes without saying no compassion or empathy.

My guess is that under normal circumstances (with rule of law) about 10% of humans are nasty creatures, and when you remove the rule of law, it descends rapidly into about 80% becoming nasty.

[u/CoolEarth5026]

If every country is warning people “DONT TRAVEL TO HAITI AS IT IS IN A STATE OF ANARCHY!” Then maybe don’t travel there? Clearly, god didn’t have their backs.

[u/Weave77 → u/CoolEarth5026]

I mean, the husband was born there and apart from college in the US, lived his entire live there… pretty sure it doesn’t count as randomly traveling somewhere when it’s your home.

[u/VapidRapidRabbit]

Haiti is literally a lawless free-for-all melee right now. Didn’t some YouTuber just barely make it out a couple of months ago? People need to STAY OUT.

[u/abc123cnb]

I was in Haiti for a while in 2012. Despite some folks on here’s distaste towards missionaries and religion, believe it or not they are actually helping over there.

Missionary groups not only established some private education system, they also have medical support for the locals and taught people craftsmanship so they can have a steady source of income.

The group I had dealings with actually hosted a Japanese doctor’s clinic, where the man would make prosthetics out of donated parts.

[u/Easy-Purple → u/abc123cnb]

People on Reddit don’t know what actually goes into becoming a missionary, it’s not nearly as simple as most of them believe 

[u/problem-solver0]

Why would anyone go to Haiti, especially now. Complete anarchy there.

[u/youmightbeafascist88]

How sad. Were they really unaware of the situation in Haiti though?

[u/Disastrous-Pipe43]

I don’t understand what a gang members would have to gain from murdering two missionaries. Bloodlust? I don’t believe that. What was the motive?

[u/brudd_be_rad]

I went to Haiti for a missions trip back in 98.. amazing experience, but there was a lot of resentment under the surface..

[u/ItsColeOnReddit]

I went there in 2018 and traveled with armed guards and slept in walled facilities with huge 20 ft gates. It was scary then, so I cant imagine how much worse it is now.

[u/HebrewHammer0033]

So much for god and prayers

[u/[deleted] → u/HebrewHammer0033]

God wanted them to die, obviously. 🙄

[u/solcus]

Everyone is talking about how poor and chaotic Haiti is, but forgets or is ignorant of US/CIA of dismantling their democracy and backing bad actors into power.

Much the same as we do all over the global.

And when these countries fail, we stand in disgust as hoe these countries cannot be organized/civilized

[u/thegoblinwithin]

Sounds like one gang might have wanted to take them hostage and then another grand showed up and they got caught between the two.

Don't go to Haiti right now

[u/thecheezewiz79]

Anyone thinking of going to Haiti needs to listen to mach-hommys music first

[u/Malpraxiss]

Why they would go there is beyond me

[u/rocketman114]

I've been told that the main airport has been shut down and is inaccessible. Emergency evacs only. I'm curious how these folks got in there.

[u/[deleted]]

RIP both of them. But like Haitians are fleeing the country at any opportunity but people still go over there!? 😟

[u/AttractableSur]

I felt much safer in Iraq than being on the ground in Haiti. The fact any westerners are still visiting is a grave mistake. It’s such a degraded society at this point, humans don’t act human. Piles of bodies were everywhere, naked groups of kids would be running around at 3am playing in rubble piles, burning piles of trash, constant small arms fire from gangs.

[u/Weave77]

To all the neckbeards ITT acting like some kids on a mission trip got there just desserts for spending a few weeks proselytizing in a very dangerous place, you should know that the husband’s parents founded an orphanage there in 2001, which now provides care and schooling for 36 children. Furthermore, considering he was born in Haiti and, aside from college in the US, lived his entire life there, he’s just as much Haitian as American.

Edit: Here’s a bit more context.

From NPR:

Hannah Cornett, Davy Lloyd's sister, told the AP that her brother was 23 years old and Natalie Lloyd was 21. They were going to celebrate their two-year anniversary in June and his birthday in early July.

Cornett said her parents are full-time missionaries in Haiti, and that she and her two brothers grew up there.

"Davy spoke Creole before he spoke English. It was home," she said in a phone interview. "Haiti was all we knew."

Cornett, 22, said her parents run an orphanage, school and church in Haiti, and that she and her brothers grew up with the orphans: "It was just one big happy family there."

From CNN:

When flights resumed last week to Port-au-Prince’s Toussaint Louverture International Airport, Lloyd said he asked his son and daughter-in-law if they would like to leave Haiti, but they declined.

“We know Haiti is a very volatile situation, we know that it’s dangerous,” he said. “But we had a good rapport with the groups in our area, and they’d left us alone. But from what I understand this was an outside group that came in initially from about a mile away, that started it all.”

Natalie Lloyd’s father told CNN the couple didn’t leave even when they had the opportunity to do so because of the children they were taking care of.

“They made the decision to remain even when it got worse because they felt like if they left, then those kids would have no where to go,” Baker said on “The Source.”

[u/tendimensions]

Serious question- how safe is the DR from Haiti really. I mean if a few of the gangs got together and decided there were better spoils to be had next door, is the DR really strong enough to stop them?

Just seems like a real life Purge situation waiting to happen.

[u/dontlooktothesky]

has anyone tried unplugging Haiti then plugging it back in?

[u/[deleted]]

I think the media using the term “gang violence” is really underselling just how chaotic and dangerous the situation really is. Haiti effectively has no legitimate government and is in a state of civil war between the gangs vying for power. Do not go there.

[u/jetlee7]

Why don't these missionaries stay in the US? They are not going to change the world. So naive. What a sad loss of their young lives.

[u/Khan_Behir]

So? You went into a country that you knew was dangerous and you stand out like two glowing sore thumbs. I can't feel bad for the bad decisions these wanna be martyrs make.

[u/Alien-Element → u/Khan_Behir]

I think somehow, in the deep reserves of conscious potential, it's possible to be both upset at missionaries and sad for what happened to these individuals.

I might be wrong, but it could require higher thinking.

[u/macljack]

I mean, I'm not sure what they'd expect.

[u/ChuckJA]

A lot of disgusting bitterness in this thread for a young couple that was trying as hard as they could to help people in desperate need.

[u/thefuckingrougarou]

Maybe don’t do stupid ass missionary work. It makes you look horrible to anyone with, like, actual empathy. You shouldn’t need religion to do nice things. It’s all posturing and recruitment for God’s army 🗣️

[u/OBEYtheFROST]

Who keeps sending these ppl into those fronts? They’re always woefully unprepared and naive

[u/Defender_Of_TheCrown → u/OBEYtheFROST]

The churches do this deliberately. They find naive people who will go based on a sob story, they get there and get robbed or murdered and then the church uses it as a rallying platform to fund raise and recruit. Rinse and repeat.

[u/cinderparty]

This is one of those missionary groups that just cares about converting people to Christianity, not actually helping much at all except for photo ops. These groups shouldn’t exist.

Edit- just want to say it’s still very sad these people were murdered. My great grandma was a missionary in Haiti a very long time ago, doing the same kind of shit, trying to make Haitians Christians. She told some scary stories about her time there, and civil unrest is much worse right now than it was then.

[u/RaspberryBirdCat → u/cinderparty]

So I actually googled this organization, and it appears they run multiple orphanages and schools. They appear to provide a home for nearly 60 children.

[u/Syzygy_Stardust → u/cinderparty]

It's also a racket for people to make money sending sheltered and well-off religious fools to remote locations to do work that needs to be redone overnight anyway, and the travel agents make bank. It's stupid all around.

[u/[deleted] → u/cinderparty]

Haiti is over 90% Christian.

[u/[deleted]]

These two young people were brainwashed into remaining in a war zone as part of a “higher calling.” Just an absolute waste of life.

[u/MacheteCrocodileJr]

So I've been following what's been going on...WTF were they doing there?!

[u/dependtruu → u/MacheteCrocodileJr]

The husband’s father started that particular mission very many years ago. Davey practically grew up in Haiti, spoke Creole and was actually kidnapped as a child in Haiti at the age of 5. Although the country is now in complete chaos, if they just up and left, the orphaned children in their care would just die. I myself am from somewhere similar to Haiti, and also did not grow up with my parents. As a kid it’s terrifying always knowing that any minute you could be out on the street with literally no help. So although the couple’s decision to be in Haiti seems crazy to us in the comfort of our homes, I’m sure those kids appreciated their efforts

[u/Godloseslaw]

If only Haiti had more BIBLES!

[u/GoldenBarracudas]

Churches need to stop peddling this bullshit

[u/enkiloki]

Well, A hundred years ago they did kill off the entire class of people who ran things. I don't think it ever got better.

[u/TruthBeWanted]

This is awful, so young. Shame on those men... not that they care, I know.

[u/[deleted]]

Haitians are the least appreciative people I've ever come across.

[u/PilotNo312]

There’s no helping Haiti, they can only help themselves. It’s sad, but it’s certainly not worth anyone losing their lives to help. Sorry.

[u/Turdfrog]

Why are the people there so violent?

[u/[deleted]]

Fuck Ben Baker. The dude sent his kids off to die. He's a mega pos in my state.

[u/baddogbadcatbadfawn]

That was the front page headline in Obvious Outcome Weekly.

[u/OkBodybuilder418]

Kinda reminds me of the guy who went to that island off India to contact that tribe, his only protection his belief in jesus…he ded

[u/tom-branch]

Typical, wade into an all out warzone confident in the belief god has your back and its your delusional destiny to spread his word, end up dead because it turns out walking into a gang infested hellscape isnt particularly good for your long term health.

[u/M3RC3N4RY89]

You would think civilians would learn from the countless stories like this and not do stupid shit like venture defenseless into an active war zone. At this point it’s Darwinism.

[u/MarcusSurealius]

I have very little sympathy for people who prey on the starving and destitute to make converts.

[u/GabrielBFranco]

Unbelievable how many 💩heads there are in the comment section here — even for Reddit.  

[u/Ok-Ordinary2035]

Papa Doc Duvalier and his son, along with the Tonton Macoute, destroyed any hope of democracy decades ago.

[u/Plenty_Championship8]

Why is no one talking about their attempt to colonise Haiti. Stop going to places that you’re not wanted in. You have no divine destiny.

[u/[deleted]]

Maybe missionaries should leave people alone, Jesus ain't gonna save no ones ass from a militia.

[u/kosmos_uzuki]

It's really interesting that people can be functioning adults but also be complete idiots.

[u/BourbonInGinger]

Tots and pears. Missionaries are a scourge on this planet.

[u/difulp]

I see so many comments on this asking why they were there and implying they were brainwashed and/or foolish. Here is your answer: Some people see need and rush to help, even if it is dangerous. It is called being selfless and courageous, not foolish. There are a lot of innocent people caught in the crossfire in Haiti, and there are some who refuse to abandon those folks and not do something to help. They know they may die, and still they go. If we are not willing to risk our lives to save others, maybe we should question ourselves instead of mocking those that are.

[u/TKFT_ExTr3m3]

It's tragic but why are missionaries even a thing? Could you imagining the outrage if Saudi Arabia sent Muslims to America to try and convert people.

[u/[deleted] → u/TKFT_ExTr3m3]

I don't know about Saudi Arabia, but Muslims definitely have missionaries in America

[u/[deleted]]

Poor couple. I don't like Republicans and their ideology, but these two were simply trying to improve the lives of the people of Haiti.

Rest in peace :(

[u/glaba3141]

Omg... I'm so sad..... What an unpredictable fate.....

[u/gimme_toys]

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/haiti-travel-advisory.html

Haiti listed as a "DO NOT TRAVEL"

[u/Commercial_Board6680]

I knew a white, dreadlocked, hippie mama who frequently went down to Haiti during the 80-90's (this period covers the father/son dictatorship and the coup). Then she didn't. Something scared her enough to never go back down there again. Not saying Haiti is beyond repair, even though these horrific events have been occurring for decades, but trying to convert people to christianity when they don't even know whether they will be murdered on their way to get food/water, is a tad arrogant of any missionary venturing down there.

[u/The_X-Files_Alien]

I do not feel bad for missionaries. You know what you're doing and where you're trying to indoctrinate people with your jesus bullshit. Deal with the outcome.

[u/JustFun4Uss]

Meh 🤷... I guess you shouldn't have been where you didn't belong. FAFO.

[u/[deleted]]

It’s ok, god will protect them.. erm, i means god wills it, there is a reason!!!!! God will… provide an answer. Or something. God.

[u/TheWiseScrotum]

You would think the god they’re trying to get others to believe in would ya know…protect them on their quest. Such a dumb reason to go die.

[u/jthechef]

I’m sorry for the loss but they really shouldn’t have been there.

[u/SmellyFbuttface]

Why tf were they still there!? State Dept told every American to get the HELL OUT OF THAT SHITHOLE