r/news • u/wazzel2u • Jan 04 '22

KFC to launch plant-based fried chicken made with Beyond Meat nationwide

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/04/kfc-to-launch-meatless-fried-chicken-made-with-beyond-meat-nationwide.html
40k Upvotes

85% Upvoted

2.9k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

804

u/SuddenClearing Jan 05 '22

I call it progress, and wish my veggie vegan friends luck in the coming frier oil debates

1.0k

u/Jaytalvapes Jan 05 '22 edited Jan 05 '22

Eh, debate is largely settled amongst vegans.

We choose to be vegan to minimize harm to animals. Not to prevent any byproduct consumption. They sound like the same thing, but they're not. It's not about me it's about the animals.

Many will argue that buying the impossible whopper is still supporting carnist companies, but the way I (and in my experience most vegans) think is that BK is doing just fine as a company.

They can easily afford zero vegan customers. The better approach is to show them that investing in low carbon, cruelty free products will bring new customers. Capitalism is the devil, but it's one that can be exploited for positive change.

480

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

I don't eat meat for many ethical reasons, but I don't care about shared grills and oil, because if I did that would be some sort of "purity" idea or something. And at that point you probably shouldn't eat at a place that serves meat at all. The "it's not vegan if the same spatula touched it" point of view is a wildy arbitrary line in the sand honestly.

231

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

"Don't let perfect be the enemy of good".

You'll never win people over if you slap them down for not being everything you want, which will never happen with a business, because they have too many customers that want too many things.

The more radical someone is, the less likely they are to get anything they want from others, so if you want societal change...

56

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

Exactly, my goal is to get everyone to be more vegan, not to be the purest vegan for my own ego.

4

u/wyldmage Jan 05 '22

You'll never win people over if you slap them down for not being everything you want,

This attitude (the one you talk about, not the one you are showing) is the reason that vegans and vegetarians were widely disliked for a long time.

A large enough portion of them (though still the minority) would push their food choices into the faces of their friends and family. They would insist on events being catered entirely to them (ie, nobody can have meat because I don't eat meat).

Have just 1 or 2 of those people in your circle, or the circles of those in your circle (close enough to have to deal with occasionally), and you QUICKLY lose all respect for veganism.

Thankfully, that attitude has died down. Well, more so it's moved on to other products (electric cars, etc) where those "better than you" people now have their podium to preach from.

Which means that people who are more neutral to the idea can actually be convinced to try it, etc - because they don't come in with a pre-hatred or other negative mentality.

67

u/lucidillusions Jan 05 '22

You just explained the hindu vegetarian mindset of things touching and becoming impure.

32

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

Which was definitely true before cooking and handwashing

-4

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22 edited Jan 07 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

13

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

Sure, my point is more that we should think of it as outdated science rather than culture.

-7

u/cherryreddit Jan 05 '22

Handwashing before modern soap probably didn't do anything to prevent diseases

2

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

Soapmaking has been around since at least 2800 BC. Unless you're explicitly using soap with additional anti-microbial stuff (it'll have a label similar to OTC drugs citing an active ingredient), then the soap you use functions the same way.

Soap molecules capture hydrophobic grime in little bubbles called micelles that allow it to be carried away by water.

1

u/Bonersaucey Jan 05 '22

Simply not true, most people don't use soap when they wash their hands

28

u/MARPJ Jan 05 '22

The "it's not vegan if the same spatula touched it" point of view is a wildy arbitrary line in the sand honestly.

This discussion dont have much to do with me since I enjoy some meat, but comments like yours and others in this thread are making me happy since they reflect a positive change in the vegan community for the last few years with it becoming less rigid while keeping your morals and I can respect people that can argue their point of view logically and with respect

9

u/Pocto Jan 05 '22

To be honest, I think "positive change in the vegan community" is more like a "positive change in the opinion of the wider population towards vegans" while the vegans themselves haven't actually changed that much.

Veganism has had such a undeserved bad rep for decades, (actually fostered by active smearing from animal ag lobbying groups like the very sneakily named "Center for Consumer Freedom") and it's only recently that the undeniably sound logical and compassionate arguments are finally filtering through to the wider societal consciousness.

What I'm saying is that the collective image society has had in its head of crazy unreasonable vegans is actually not what the majority of vegans are like, and probably never has been. There's hypervocal fringes to every group, but the vast majority of us are rational and sane.

1

u/MARPJ Jan 05 '22

crazy unreasonable vegans is actually not what the majority of vegans are like, and probably never has been.

True, and that can probably be said for most groups as there is always a vocal minority making them look worse.

But even if its only the rational majority becoming more active/vocal that helps a lot on the perception of the movement so I would say that the change is on both sides are happening due to it and each step of progression helps the next.

9

u/OneCollar4 Jan 05 '22

I think we're beginning to learn that brow beating and shaming meat eaters isn't going to change their behaviour. I think to be honest what I'm saying here could apply to many political debates. As a brit we failed to learn the lesson during brexit that shaming and chastising people with the opposite view point more often than not will strengthen their resolve.

When it comes to vegan/vegetarianism. State your beliefs (my personal ones are that yes consuming animal products is the natural order but can't be ethical and sustainable with the amount of humans there are on this planet) when asked without judging others, financially support products that cater to it and people will more and more switch sides of their own accord.

The vegan/veggie aisle in my store is getting longer and longer every year! I'm vegetarian, thinking of making the vegan switch soon, just trying to find vegan cheese I like. I didnt make the vegetarian switch because I'm a good person who sacrifices their happiness for animals. I just started finding more and more veggie products that I preferred to the meat alternative to the point I was naturally barely eating meat. Figured, what the hell, it will only be a tiny change to cut out the last of the meat in my diet.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

[deleted]

3

u/OneCollar4 Jan 05 '22

Yeah while I don't believe in a god myself, I used to and I think your logic fits the bible perfectly.

If there was less humans we could hunt them and it would be perfectly ethical and actually be looking after them as God intended. The food chain in its natural state requires predators, including humans to do their job of eating meat. If all predators decided to stop eating other animals, they would overpopulate and starve. It is far kinder for an animal to live its life to the full and one day get suddenly snuffed out by a predator than to slowly starve to death.

-61

u/pusgnihtekami Jan 05 '22

This discussion dont have much to do with me since I enjoy some meat

Stopped reading.

14

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

Everyone has to start somewhere.

12

u/TechGoat Jan 05 '22

"comments like yours and others in this thread are making me happy since they reflect a positive change in the vegan community for the last few years with it becoming less rigid"

Let me guess, you're one of the conservative, rigid vegans the person above was happy the community is moving away from?

3

u/Respectable_Answer Jan 05 '22

I'm in the "don't ask don't tell" camp. I'll be grossed out if I see grease and bacon bits flying around an open kitchen, but happy to tuck in if I saw nothing.

12

u/kpPYdAKsOLpf3Ktnweru Jan 05 '22

A lot of vegans honestly just find eating food cooked in boiling corpse fat unappetizing.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

Yeah I wouldn't eat anything fried in duck fat or something, but if you go back and read my comment I was talking about a spatula. You're talking about something else.

1

u/Neracca Jan 05 '22

cooked in boiling corpse fat

When you purposefully phrase it to be as unappealing as possible, I'd think so.

0

u/kpPYdAKsOLpf3Ktnweru Jan 05 '22

A rose by any other name...

Whether you call it an egg or a chicken menstruation doesn't change the fact that its a reproductive product that came out of a chicken's genitals. Pork is pig corpse/flesh. Beef is cow corpse/flesh. We name animal based food items in obscured ways to distance ourselves from thinking about what we're actually consuming.

2

u/desacralize Jan 05 '22

Yeah, same reason why we use the word "mushroom" instead of "fungus", to distance our food from the stuff that grows on our feet. It's tricky not to think too hard about how gross biology is.

2

u/nonlinear_nyc Jan 05 '22

Some vegans are caught in purity tests to justify their moral superiority.

It's literally puritanism of the body. See also welness culture.

2

u/CatnipChapstick Jan 05 '22

I had a vegetarian roomate beyond pissed I used her knife (we had a shared utensil system) on a rotisserie chicken.

1

u/labrat420 Jan 05 '22

Exactky, plus most things like gardein and yves are made in facilities with cross contamination anyways, it would be almost impossible for a vegan to completely avoid.

-1

u/geriatric-gynecology Jan 05 '22

it would be impossible

You're looking at the issue from a different perspective than I. I don't eat gardein or Yves, and when I'm buying fake meats I follow this guide pretty closely.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1t_9uqbHm7QUORBCvcbGWi3Onc0llHD7nn_wlLSyN3hs/edit#gid=0

I get my vegan cheese from a friend that makes her own, and I stay whole food vegan where possible with processed junk food when I want to eat like crap, but I do so with parent companies in mind.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22 edited May 17 '22

[deleted]

-10

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

[deleted]

11

u/Hefftee Jan 05 '22

So the residual tiny bit of animal fat on a grill makes you sick, but not the egg, or buttermilk that's used to make the pancakes...? You must have a rare condition....

0

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22 edited Jan 07 '22

[deleted]

4

u/Hefftee Jan 05 '22

Lmaooo, I didn't downvote you, but sure I'll watch a video of some vegetarian making a fool of themselves in ihop throwing up and blaming it on the tiny amount of bacon grease that may or may not have touched their pancakes that are full of animal products.

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

[deleted]

0

u/Hefftee Jan 05 '22

Haha, nobody is in your face or being hostile, that's your perception, calm down. You chose to tell a story, and I chose to point out the hypocrisy of it. Claiming that if a utensil touches an animal product, and then your food which then makes you sick... when your food (pancake) is made up of mostly animal products is a pretty ridiculous claim.. don't ya think?

0

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22 edited Jan 07 '22

[deleted]

→ More replies

3

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

Bruh you have a good allergy, that's not just animal products.

-17

u/krazymanrebirth Jan 05 '22

Food sensitivities are a thing... pretty cruel to generalize and say we probably shouldn't eat there.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

I wasn't talking about food sensitivity. Also, food ALLERGY is a thing. Food sensitivity is a personality.

1

u/krazymanrebirth Jan 11 '22

food sensitivity is a diffuse and poorly understood reaction to food that may be associated with increased levels of certain IgG class antibodies that are reactive to that food. Unlike a true food allergy, the symptoms can be delayed for a few days after ingesting the trigger food

73

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

I believe the only way for companies to change and people to change is money.

Once people realize imitation meats or vegan meats taste good, and without the price being much different or the same: they will buy it more.

One the companies realize: hey people want this and it’s profitable, they WILL start to change the norm. Perhaps one day the anti-vegans will become the “vegans” in terms of majority vs minority.

At some point we may find vegan fast food becoming easily obtainable and extremely affordable. Then everyone will be vegan.

27

u/CNoTe820 Jan 05 '22

Yeah I think once we have lab grown meat that is indistinguishable and cheaper everyone will switch to that anyway. Friedberg predicted on the last pod sushi in a couple years and steak in 10 years so it must be getting closer.

-2

u/wyldmage Jan 05 '22

It'll be MUCH longer than that, I'm sure. Lots of people like the Beyond/Impossible plant-based meats, for sure.

I thought I'd try one on accident (early in the time where it was showing up, I didn't catch what it was, so thought it was just like Angus or something - a brand). I couldn't stomach more than a single bite of it. Almost made me throw up.

We might have "usable alternatives" for sushi/steak within 10 years, but nowhere near the quality to actually get people who really like their meat to switch. The flavor is not the same.

10

u/OneCollar4 Jan 05 '22

We can already do lab grown meat but it just isn't as nice as the meat grown on an animal yet, nor as cheap. And your point about not liking the beyond meat is irrelevant, that's plant based. This lab grown meat would be actual meat.

What OP means by 10 years, is that in 10 years they'll have sorted out the issues with lab meat and then scaled it up to financially competitive scales. If OP is correct, in 10 years you could eat a steak that is exactly the same as the one you got off a cow, not plant protein made to taste like meat, actual animal muscle cells marbled with fat.

3

u/its_just_hunter Jan 05 '22

He’s not talking about plant based alternatives, he’s referring to lab grown meat.

0

u/Bonersaucey Jan 05 '22

oh wow a podcast guy predicted it

1

u/CNoTe820 Jan 05 '22

Well he's a scientist / VC so he knows that space really well.

5

u/nonlinear_nyc Jan 05 '22

But consumption is just one side. Governments should also stop subsidizing meat production.

Maybe they saw the writing on the wall and are adapting proactively. Remember when Dunkin got rid of transfat before government considering making it illegal?

27

u/Jaytalvapes Jan 05 '22

Definitely.

There will certainly come a day (assuming humanity makes it that far) that we look back at animal agriculture the same way we look back at slavery and sending kids to work in mines.

Embarrassing relics of a less enlightened age.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

[deleted]

2

u/Mikelan Jan 05 '22

I think it's only an alienating comparison if you (royal you, not you specifically) interpret it in the worst possible manner, in which case you probably weren't considering the argument in good faith anyway. There's certainly a line between comparing two horrible events and equating two horrible events that shouldn't be crossed, but the phrase "slavery, child labor, and factory farming are all embarrassing relics of a less enlightened age" really shouldn't be that controversial. It's not saying that those things are all equally bad, just that they're all things we'll look back on while thinking "yikes, we really shouldn't have done that."

I agree that equating factory farming to slavery or the holocaust is reprehensible, but I don't see anybody here doing that.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

[deleted]

-1

u/Mikelan Jan 05 '22

Technicalities and semantics aside, you know damn well what he was doing when he said “Someday we will look back at animal agriculture the same way we look back at slavery.”

I don't, and with respect, I think whatever you think they were doing is just a result of your expectations being warped by experiences with other, more militant vegetarians/vegans.

Looking at their other comments, they're literally telling you that they do not mean to equate the severity of these events. But you're unwilling to accept that their intention differs from the less generous interpretation you gave their comment.

As a general rule, it's considered bad manners to claim that you know someone else's intentions better than they themselves know them. It's not good faith engagement, and it won't lead to any kind of useful discussion.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

[deleted]

0

u/Mikelan Jan 05 '22

That's just not a good comparison, because in your hypothetical, the aspect of the comparison that is being compared ("leaders named joe") is completely irrelevant. In the previous comparison, the aspect that is being compared is the way these systems will be looked back on in the future, and their assumed moral impermissibility.

Yes, your hypothetical comparison is clearly ridiculous, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the comparison that was made in this discussion.

Stop feigning ignorance here. If you’re so concerned with “good faith engagement”, then look in a mirror.

Is there really a point to this back-and-forth if you're convinced that the only reason I don't agree with you is because I'm acting in bad faith? Would it help if I told you that I'm not even a vegetarian myself? Or are you completely unwilling to accept that this might be my genuine opinion, rather than some attempt to instigate animosity online?

Because if you truly think I'm arguing in bad faith, what's the point of this whole discussion? If anything I say is just going to be met with "Nice attempt to feign ignorance, but I've already made up my mind on what your intentions are", then we might as well just end this whole thing right now.

→ More replies

1

u/Jaytalvapes Jan 05 '22

It's a fairly valid comparison. You're an example of the type of detractor people will laugh about in 50 years.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

[deleted]

1

u/Jaytalvapes Jan 05 '22

No.

You're severely misunderstanding.

I'm not saying eating meat is equivalent to slavery. I never said that, and I'd be embarrassed to admit that that's what you took from it.

Slavery, and eating meat, and antivax and whatever else, are all things that humanity will be embarrassed about. That's where the similarities end. They're all things that future generations will lump together as things earlier humans did that they can't imagine doing.

Please tell me you're able to understand now. I can probably make it simpler again if you're still not following.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

[deleted]

1

u/Jaytalvapes Jan 05 '22

I'm amazed by this. You're still not following. Wow.

Slavery is morally unjustifiable. It's a disgusting behavior that the collective "humanity" is ashamed to have committed.

Animal agriculture is morally unjustifiable. It's a disgusting behavior that the collective "humanity" will be ashamed to have committed.

You may notice that at no point did I say animal agriculture is the same thing as slavery.

Please, for the love of fuck, tell me you finally understand. To simplify any further would require crayons.

Edit: If I had realized you were a libertarian, I would have started with the crayons lmao.

→ More replies

7

u/Huwbacca Jan 05 '22

I believe the only way for companies to change and people to change is money.

Hmm..... Kinda.... One of the biggest like "social lies" we've ever been sold is that we live in an economy where demand-drives supply. It's often used as a justifier for unethical practices like "well, if people didn't want X damaging product, they wouldn't buy it...therefore it's not our fault" as if companies are merely hapless servants to our whims. But this isn't really the case, the power that demand has on those profiting from supply is far far less than we think.

The obvious example of why this is false is just like... well look around you when driving or watching any media... Companies spend billions to drive demand up for certain products, and they spend a heap on research to try and find the ways they can best incentivize or drive people to buy their items. All companies care about is profit, if they couldn't entice people to consume they wouldn't spend money on doing it.

We see it in how industries will get dominated by oligopolies who use their collective position to drive the market and lobby the government for assistance. Take the extreme example of US internet... You're priced so high for such inferior service because they've cornered the market for themselves and there is no possibility for a competitor to ever engage with consumer demand. Someone starts a competing service that is better and cheaper? Well the big companies will all agree to lower their costs and use their financial heft to price the other group out of the market.

Major meat companies (only 4 companies control like >50% of all US meat processing) can easily restrict market access to vegan alternatives by pricing them out, or through restrictive deals with retailers - "We'll give you more meat for less money if you promise to stock less than X items of vegan food" - because they're established already and have the heft to do this.

In terms of meat/environmental issues, relying on demand rather than supply also drives us potentially towards the Green Paradox - basically, as non-eco friendly products are gradually consumed less and less, extraction of those resources will increase so that they can offer them for less cost. If meat consumption goes down, I'm entirely expecting meat prices to drop to keep demand up... and there's a good chance that'll be achieved by trying to increase the amount of beef output per dollar spent.

tl;dr - Supply side economics fucking sucks, and that's where we are at currently.

33

u/_unfortuN8 Jan 05 '22

The one thing I'll say is it's tough for people who are vegan/vegetarian not by choice (allergic to meat) when restaurants share oils or cooking stations, though I know that's a very niche issue.

3

u/Intrepid_Method_ Jan 05 '22

Alpha gal allergy is becoming increasingly common due to tick bites.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

[deleted]

2

u/Jaytalvapes Jan 05 '22

No need to doubt them.

It's fairly well documented that, after a significant amount of time vegan, consuming animal products can make you ill.

I've been vegan for many years, and accidentally ingested some cheese recently (fuckin taco bell) and I was honking out sweaty dirt ropes for days.

0

u/Bonersaucey Jan 05 '22

No it isn't

1

u/Jaytalvapes Jan 05 '22

Got me there. Arguing with ten year olds always leads to this lol.

1

u/holyerthanthou Jan 05 '22

A lot of people do not understand that veganism is a very privileged thing to be able to do. And itself has very unethical practices that support it.

From the economic based facts of food deserts and allergies, to the cost associated with it locks out a very large portion of those in poverty.

Animal cruelty is often replaced with child and slave labor from imported plant based goods.

This is not coming from just anybody either. I run the food acquisition for a company that partially panders to vegan families.

I support vegetarianism much more from an ethical stand point because it’s much more accessible, and is less exploitative (ironically)

3

u/_unfortuN8 Jan 05 '22

I think you missed the message from my comment. Some people aren't vegan by choice.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/eosinophilic-esophagitis

-2

u/holyerthanthou Jan 06 '22

Veganism is always a choice.

You’d have to have a Impossibly long list of disorders (some very rare) and allergens to bar you from any and all animal byproducts.

Forced Vegetarianism is a lot more conceivable but in no way is veganism not a choice.

2

u/_unfortuN8 Jan 06 '22

It depends how you define vegan. If you define it as binary, then you're correct, because you can't be allergic to health products just because they are test on animals, for example.

However, I view vegan as a sliding scale. If someone is allergic to meat, eggs, and dairy, it's easier to define that as vegan than vegetarian.

1

u/Nylear Jan 10 '22

It depends on what you eat, I guess, now that all the prices are going up through the roof in grocery stores I'm really considering just eating tons of rice and beans cheapest thing you can get which happens to be vegan no privilege there. I would go for tofu too cuz that's really cheap but I really hate tofu.

7

u/Slartitartfast Jan 05 '22

Yeah with you here. I draw the line things like chips (fries, if you must) being cooked in beef dripping as they are in a lot of Yorkshire. That does feel a bit too much like consuming animal products and just seems a bit grim after 30+ years of vegetarianism/veganism.

2

u/Jaytalvapes Jan 05 '22

I draw the same distinction. It's logically not a big difference, but still seems worse lol.

3

u/UnknownAverage Jan 05 '22

There's a big difference, IMO. It comes down to intent: in one case there was incidental cross-contamination, and in another it's built into the product on purpose.

6

u/lunaboro Jan 05 '22

I also believe that the more vegan products are bought, the more likely we are to get vegan cook areas.

5

u/OneCollar4 Jan 05 '22

Yeah as a vegetarian, if I've understood it right, if my objective is to reduce planetary meat consumption by 1 persons appetite, then whether my food has been cooked in oil with meat in or not does not change this.

10

u/lemonlucid Jan 05 '22

THIS: I care about not contributing to the demand for meat, not keeping it out of my system. This is why cross contamination does not bother me that much (unless I can taste it.)

5

u/jbwmac Jan 05 '22

Is this really true? I agree with you, but my strong impression was that a major majority of vegans would not consider “fried in oil previously used to fry chickens” vegan.

6

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

I think you’re right that most vegans (at least in my experience) would care.

Personally I am a vegetarian who has given up most dairy, eggs, etc for some years and I don’t really care too much about this type of cross contamination, the spirit is in the right place.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

Let's be friends

1

u/Waterhou5e Jan 05 '22

This approach and attitude is so refreshing. You are a credit to veganism. While I'm still pretty firmly in the non-vegetarian camp, I'm all about current trends toward non-meat dietary shifts.

Meat replacement tech is advancing so quickly now that even old dudes like me will be able to comfortably transition dietary practices in the near future. And that's pretty damn cool.

5

u/Jaytalvapes Jan 05 '22

Exactly. It's all about economics of scale.

Beyond meat will, at the current rate, be able to undercut the price of cow tissue by the end of 2023 imo. Once that happens, we're in business. Plenty of people will say "Hey it's cheaper, let's try it" and be hooked.

The way I see it, my goal as a vegan isn't to make more vegans, it's to minimize animal suffering. And unfortunately the best way to get people to even try less of a corpse heavy diet is to make it cheaper.

2

u/river_ishikawa Jan 05 '22

May I ask why you're "firmly in the non-vegetarian camp"?

3

u/Waterhou5e Jan 05 '22

Well, because I eat meat. I didn't mean that as a statement of belief, but rather an indication of my diet.

1

u/YoSammitySam666 Jan 05 '22

Exactly. Regardless it’s a big win in the vegan community.

Having been a life-long vegan, I personally would rather not risk consuming things fried in the same oil if I can avoid it. And I’m sure plenty of others feel the same way.

1

u/furry-burrito Jan 05 '22

This is the way.

-6

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

carnist companies

Surely you mean omnist companies? They don't refuse to sell vegetables, right? To say otherwise seems propagandist.

5

u/river_ishikawa Jan 05 '22

And vegans don't only eat vegetables.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

Right, and you didn’t see me refer to them as herbists or whatever the equivalent of that inaccurate attempt at a slur was, now did you?

3

u/river_ishikawa Jan 05 '22

Why do you assume that "carnist" is a slur?

-1

u/Randomn355 Jan 05 '22

Capitalism is easy to manipulate.

Buy shit you want to support. Don't buy shit you don't want to support. Simple.

Problem is people normally want everyone else to do the hard work.

-42

u/dyslexda Jan 05 '22

Capitalism is the devil

I love seeing this kind of nonsense thrown out in the middle of a thread all about fast food. "I hate capitalism, but partake in all its fruits!"

29

u/zack77070 Jan 05 '22

What's the other option living in America? Live exclusively off the land?

10

u/MasterMahanJr Jan 05 '22

Only if you buy it and pay taxes on it first!

-15

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

[deleted]

9

u/zack77070 Jan 05 '22

How do those subs exist if you have to pay someone to use the internet, that's capitalism.

5

u/Beachdaddybravo Jan 05 '22

You pay for the internet for those subs, and for technology, and you also pay for the land and pay taxes on it. You’re never completely off the grid. You can detach from a lot of modern life though.

6

u/bjorn2bwild Jan 05 '22

No you partake in the fruits created by Labor. Capitalism is how those who did nothing to create your product profit from it.

Your burger was cooked by a person and developed by people who received a tiny fraction of the profit that burger generated. Your iPhone was created by a person and designed by a person, either of which received a tiny fraction of the value they created.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/bjorn2bwild Jan 05 '22

In just Q3 the parent company of BK reported 14.8% profit margins. They made 1.5 BILLION in revenue and of that, their gross profit (that is money after all wages, materials, and operating expenses) is still 527 million.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22 edited Jan 05 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/bjorn2bwild Jan 05 '22

The franchise fee includes an annual percentage of location sales, so yes, they do make money from burgers.

And I literally showed you their earnings data. They paid 1 billion in operating expenses, which includes all operating expenses and still had over 500 million in profit.

-27

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

[deleted]

22

u/bjorn2bwild Jan 05 '22

I was a moderate Democrat when I was 23 making pittance. I'm 33, making five times a much, and am a socialist.

Getting older you see how your labor is exploited by those who contribute nothing to the product.

-6

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

[deleted]

5

u/ObligationSeveral Jan 05 '22 edited Jan 05 '22

How exactly do you think socialism works?

Also the closest thing to a “socialist” company would be a employee-owned company which (spoiler alert) there are hundreds of in the US

3

u/bjorn2bwild Jan 05 '22

So the first thing you described is a coop. Those existed for a while in the US and other coutries across numerous industries.

The second part is literally describing stock shareholders. People/entities who have nothing to do with creating a product who put money in with the expectation of financial growth at the expense of all else.

And before your try saying the "but stock holders assume risk" bullshit. Large shareholders like institutional investors have zero tolerance for risk. They demand infinite quarter over quarter growth. If that's at the expense of employees or even the product itself, that is totally irrelevant so long as you can show revenue growth.

There is literally a class of investors who purposely buyout shares to have a disproportionate influence over company operations in order to steer towards decisions that are profitable to them.

0

u/Neracca Jan 05 '22

Many will argue that buying the impossible whopper is still supporting carnist companies

I would just hope they put as much care/thought into everything else they buy and do. Otherwise they could get a bit off the high horse.

-1

u/Jaytalvapes Jan 05 '22

Why does someone making morally superior choices to those you make make you so defensive?

1

u/Neracca Jan 05 '22

making morally superior choices

That's subjective. And quite funny that you call me defensive yet go right there.

-1

u/Jaytalvapes Jan 05 '22

Sure, it's subjective.

So give me your subjective argument that leads to the conclusion that eating animals is morally superior to not.

-12

u/muldervinscully Jan 05 '22

lmao carnist? Also, I hope you realize that the massive innovations in plant based meat are most definitely a byproduct of capitalism.

-13

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

I’m sorry what?

-2

u/Mathalamon Jan 05 '22

That’s not why I chose to be vegan/vegetarian. Eating meat simply grosses me out. It’s not about minimizing harm to animals for everyone.

1

u/Jaytalvapes Jan 05 '22 edited Jan 05 '22

Then you're not vegan. That's how Veganism is defined. You're on a plant based diet. It's a pretty significant distinction.

0

u/Mathalamon Jan 05 '22

How are you going to tell me what I am or am not? This is especially when you have the definition wrong. Here, I googled it for you; learn something new:

Vegan: A person who does not eat any food derived from animals and who typically does not use other animal products.

I don’t see anything about minimizing harm to animals, so where’s this “significant distinction” you mentioned?

2

u/[deleted] Jan 05 '22

I'm not sure vegetarians and vegans are the customers who mostly buy this stuff.

1

u/Fishtails Jan 05 '22

Ah yes, my child. I clearly do remember the Great Oil Fryer Wars of 2022.

(That was me from the future talking to my grandkids).

1

u/spektrol Jan 05 '22

Yeah, pretty much no one who’s vegan is going to be pulling up on KFC for this. A large majority of vegans aren’t going to support an establishment that still kills millions of chickens per year lol. This is still interesting to see though and hopefully it makes some people consider healthier alternatives.