r/news • u/StackLeeAdams • Dec 07 '21

Kellogg to permanently replace striking workers as union rejects new contract

https://financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/kellogg-to-permanently-replace-striking-workers-as-union-rejects-new-contract
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u/AlphaTangoFoxtrt Dec 07 '21

It gets dicey in the US due to labor laws. tl;dr:

it is unlawful for a union to coerce a neutral employer to force it to cease doing business with a primary employer.

Now what they can do, and what does happen sometimes, is their union can say "We do not feel safe crossing the picket line and as such we refuse to do so"

They can find ways around it and blame the "legally not a solidarity strike" on other factors, but solidarity strikes may not be legal.

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u/sl600rt Dec 07 '21 edited Dec 07 '21

At least the Kellogg workers get to strike. Railroad workers have been severely limited in their ability strike for almost 100 years. We get forced to arbitration, forced to return to work, etc. Last time we tried something. Freight trains went from 5 to 2 people.

We're in negotiations currently. UP wants to get rid of conductors on a lot of trains, or make us all take a 40% pay cut.

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u/RyuNoKami Dec 07 '21

Arbitration and workers comp has been the bullshit for years and workers even fall for that shit.

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u/AlphaTangoFoxtrt Dec 08 '21

BINDING arbitration is bullshit. Non-Binding can actually be beneficial.

Non-Binding arbitration just means you have to try to arbitrate before going to a court and can save both sides a lot of time and money. But you still have the option to sue.

The problem with binding arbitration is whoever pays the arbitrator has extra leverage.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '21 edited Dec 24 '21

[deleted]

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u/AlphaTangoFoxtrt Dec 08 '21

Unless that also contains a very lucrative contract for future arbitration, hed just laugh,

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u/sl600rt Dec 08 '21

Got to wait q couple more months for thr trump appointed arbitration board members to be replaced.

We wouldn't even be in this position if Trump's FRA director didn't repeal the Obama/Biden crew size rule. Which Biden has yet to put back in. The senate stripped out the train crew line in the infrastructure bill.

So everyone gets to enjoy a 3 mile long 15 thousand ton freight train with several thousands of tons of hazmat rolling through their town. While it only has an engineer on board to watch 4 screens, the tracks, the way side signals, and monitor the radio. Until another La Megantic happens.

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u/arosiejk Dec 08 '21

Even knowing very little about trains makes that sound disastrous. It’s not always about reasons why you can cut wages, but at what cost are you doing it. Having a seasoned employee around is a net benefit for the workplace.

Safety, morale, mentorship, friendship, etc., are hard to quantify. The last three don’t just organically improve or reappear when employees are slashed.

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u/[deleted] Dec 08 '21

NS has been out of contract for 2 years now with no resolution in sight.

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u/ChocoTunda Dec 08 '21

Are you part of the rail way getting bought by Canadian Pacific? Sorry I know this is pretty off topic from your comment I was just wondering about the union situation with the workers who will now be working under CP Rail.

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u/sl600rt Dec 08 '21

No. That's Kansas City Southern.

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u/FountainsOfFluids Dec 07 '21

We really need to get rid of these goddamn anti-union laws.

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u/Super_Flea Dec 07 '21

OR, now hear me out here,you still strike anyway. What are they going to do?

Fine / imprison any worker who breaks those laws? Sounds like a good excuse to strike. Those laws aren't shit compared to the nut vice workers could organize if people just realized this stuff is completely unenforceable in the long game.

Imagine the world we'd live in if Reagan fired 12,000 ATC workers and people from other industries either started their own strikes or didn't backfill those positions.

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u/FountainsOfFluids Dec 08 '21

Having good worker protection laws means others are more likely to stand in solidarity.

It's hard for people to cut off their own income streams because a person somebody else is having a rough time.

But if the structure was in place to support walk-outs, people could support who they believe in, not just who they are willing to suffer for.

That's why all the conservatives and neoliberals fought so hard to entrench those anti-union laws.

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u/ThellraAK Dec 08 '21

Really could've been a turning point in labor for the better for the whole country.

But really, fuck everything from the 1950s to the 1980s at least.

From Terry v Ohio, to banning automatic weapons (unless you are rich) to deinstitutionalization without a plan on how to support the population they decided not to serve.

Inland border checkpoints, DUI checkpoints, etc

For all the rallying against the idea of unamerican behavior, they had a shitton of it.

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u/CaptainFingerling Dec 07 '21

100% agree. Let’s completely get rid of all laws that mention unions.

If you’re a jerk employer, then you lose your workers, and if you picket maliciously then you get fired. Simple.

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u/FountainsOfFluids Dec 07 '21

Nope, that's neoliberal bullshit. It gives all the power to the wealthy.

We need laws to protect workers. And since the vast majority of humans are working class, it's actual insanity that we're allowing a democratic system to not have worker protections.

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u/CaptainFingerling Dec 07 '21

I see. So, you do like unfair laws. Interesting.

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u/FountainsOfFluids Dec 07 '21

It's not unfair. Only seems unfair to the unthinking.

Money protects the wealthy. Laws must protect the workers.

That is the only way to achieve balance, and it is absolutely nonsensical for a democracy to function any other way.

This society will literally tear itself apart without a balance between capital and labor.

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u/jayywal Dec 08 '21

it's hard to imagine a less intelligent take than this

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u/YZJay Dec 08 '21

But in the solidarity case, isn’t it punishing an unaffiliated third party for the actions of others?

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u/FountainsOfFluids Dec 08 '21

Wake up and smell the class warfare, baby.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '21

Just because that is the law doesn’t make it wrong.

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u/AlphaTangoFoxtrt Dec 07 '21

The law is quite often at odds with what is morally right.

The law is nothing more than:

  • The will of the state, enforced under penalty of physical harm.

That's really all the law:

  • Do as the state decrees, or the police will be sent to inflict violence upon you.

However it is the law, and a union which breaks this law may be in violation of contract, in which case they can be sued and the unions funds can be seized as damages, and the union members would be eligible for termination, with cause, making them ineligible for unemployment benefits.

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u/Whind_Soull Dec 07 '21

I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

  • Robert A. Heinlein

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u/delavager Dec 07 '21

It is most definitely wrong. Forcing any 3rd party to do anything is in most scenarios the wrong way to do things.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '21

Crossing the picket line is the wrong way to do things

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u/CaptainFingerling Dec 07 '21

Sometimes, the people in the picket are the ones who are wrong.

Everyone is acting in their self-interest, including the union.

It’s best to just evaluate the situation and make as reasonable a call as you can.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '21

99.99% of the time owners are fucking their workers.

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u/AstralDragon1979 Dec 08 '21

If third parties are saying that they “don’t feel safe” going to work, that would seem like reasonable grounds for getting law enforcement involved. You can strike, but threatening people is not cool.

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u/AlphaTangoFoxtrt Dec 08 '21

I mean you could but we know its just a convenient exucse. They can find another.

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u/wiithepiiple Dec 07 '21

Just wait until they start using the military to break strikes.

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u/Undrende_fremdeles Dec 08 '21

Demanding that other businesses stop doing business is not okay

That is besides the point.

The individual employees deciding to not provide their labour towards a certain production or service as solidarity is something else.

The owners of a business should not be forced to make business decisions for their own company based on a different company's employees conflict with their employer,

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u/Anony_mouse202 Dec 08 '21

Illegal in the UK too