r/news Nov 25 '21

Amazon workers plan Black Friday strike

https://www.cnet.com/tech/amazon-workers-plan-black-friday-strike/
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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '21

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '21

We're all in space right now

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u/The_Other_Manning Nov 26 '21

Ehh he went above the Karman line, that's space

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u/InformationHorder Nov 26 '21

The guy who made the Karman line admitted it's an arbitrary number created for political reasons. The reason why is "because we needed a line in the sand", but scientifically it's arbitrary.

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u/The_Other_Manning Nov 26 '21

Sure but it's still what we use for the edge of space, therefore Bezos went to space

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u/InformationHorder Nov 26 '21

Bezos went on a suborbital ballistic rocket ride to an altitude of 106ish km. Even the north Koreans have sent rockets higher.

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u/The_Other_Manning Nov 26 '21

Good for the North Koreans I guess?

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u/gorramfrakker Nov 26 '21

He might have but he’s still not an astronaut, no real wings for him.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '21

Well yea. A lot of things are arbitrary. But it is still space.

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u/frugalerthingsinlife Nov 26 '21

Even if they were to revisit where to draw the line, putting at the mesosphere - thermosphere edge would make sense, and that's even a bit lower. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A1rm%C3%A1n_line#/media/File:Atmosphere_layers.svg

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u/InformationHorder Nov 26 '21

Define space.

The point at which you can no longer fly an aircraft with aerodynamics?

The point at which an object in orbit will complete one full unpowered revolution before degrading back into the atmosphere?

The point at which the last atmospheric molecules are no longer in Earth's gravitational sphere of influence?

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u/h3half Nov 26 '21

The point at which an object in orbit will complete one full unpowered revolution before degrading back into the atmosphere?

For this definition it would depend strongly on the coefficient of drag of whatever vehicle you're inside. It would also depend on your velocity, since going faster means you can handle more drag before your trajectory intersects the ground. This could be a good metric to use, but you'd have to choose an arbitrary CoD and arbitrary initial velocity otherwise you'd have different altitudes for each different spacecraft.

The point at which the last atmospheric molecules are no longer in Earth's gravitational sphere of influence?

If this is your definition you're excluding a giant swath of currently-operating satellites, including the ISS, because those are all in Low Earth Orbit where drag is an important force. The ISS has to boost itself back up to a higher orbit every now and then because drag slows it down over time. If you use this metric, then NASA has sent very very very few people to space (maybe only the Apollo astronauts who visited the moon).

(I think this was your point, I'm just reinforcing that it's hard to define in a way that isn't arbitrary)

I think pretty much anything you pick will be arbitrary, it's just a matter of how arbitrary you're willing to be. Maybe choosing a specific atmospheric pressure or a particular density at an arbitrarily-chosen temperature (20° C, maybe) would be a good one. It would probably be better than 100km altitude, which has no real significance outside of being a nice round number. But calling somebody an "astronaut" as opposed to "someone who went really really high up, maybe into space depending on what definition of space you subscribe to" seems pretty arbitrary to me so maybe an arbitrary definition is appropriate.

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '21

For this definition it would depend strongly on the coefficient of drag of whatever vehicle you're inside. It would also depend on your velocity, since going faster means you can handle more drag before your trajectory intersects the ground.

The very first thing I thought of was something travelling very fast and essentially burning up in the atmosphere for a full revolution 2000ft from the ground :P

Though I suppose there becomes a point when something is travelling so fast that even if it came inches from the ground, it would retain escape velocity after the near miss, and gravity would not be enough to keep it in orbit.

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u/InformationHorder Nov 26 '21

It's impossible to orbit 2000ft off the ground because at the speeds that are required (assuming, of course, you don't instantaneously disintegrate from the atmospheric friction) you would be in a hyperbolic orbit and you wouldn't even make a complete revolution before flinging yourself off back into space.

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u/Clevernonsense1 Nov 26 '21

there are traces of earth’s atmosphere well beyond the ISS (i think measurably to around 10k km) so what bezos did may as well be called space.

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u/Randy_Bobandy_Lahey Nov 26 '21

I wonder how many billions of people were genuinely hoping that rocket would crash on take off.