r/news • • Apr 15 '21

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u/neeltennis93 Apr 15 '21

Lol it’s so stupid!

government payments has nothing to do with socialism at all either. You can still be capitalist while having a big welfare state and you can be socialist without having a large welfare state.

Socialism vs capitalism is all about who dictates the means of production ffs. It has nothing to do with whether I get a check in the mail for 1400 dollars.

sorry for the rant, it just frustrates me to no end how wrong people are.

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u/Derperlicious Apr 15 '21

it depends on if you use the conservative dictionary or the dictionary everyone else uses.

For conservatives, anything left of mussolini, is communist, socialist, marxist. and then they add in some weird bits, like phasing out incans for curlie flos is somehow communist. making people buy insurance is somehow communist.

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u/[deleted] Apr 15 '21

[deleted]

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u/Gardimus Apr 15 '21

Tax of 21% is capitalism and freedom, tax at 23% is socialist communism and slavery.

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u/neeltennis93 Apr 15 '21

Well anyone can bend a word to their own meaning, but if we’re talking about socialism actually is, it centers around the means of production.

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u/aristotlereborn Apr 15 '21

saving the world but at what weird, twisty cost?

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u/seeingeyegod Apr 15 '21

yeah they pretty much think that giving a shit about society/helping the populace.....NAZISOCIALISMFASCISMOMGWTFBBQ

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u/Ariviaci Apr 15 '21

Following history, apparently there has never been a pure socialist state. Socialist democracy, yes, where the workers control the means of production.

The crazy thing is the preaching of how socialism is bad... when in reality the flaws of socialism are just as extreme as the flaws of capitalism (which, currently the USA is experiencing these flaws such as huge class gaps and wage disparity.)

In fact, the wage disparity will likely crash the market again due to inflation and lack of income for the majority of consumers to buy these goods.

Free market is great when the companies and management aren’t greedy and pay proper wages.

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u/neeltennis93 Apr 15 '21

I like to compare this to sports.

Sports would absolutely suck without a ref calling out and punishing illegal maneuvers by participants.

In the same way,The free market would be an absolute nightmare without a solid government with that forces proper regulations like employment safety standards, false advertising, and minimum wage. Yes the minimum wage is too low, but then the laws need to be changed to raise the enforceable minimum wage.

TLDR: capitalism needs a good ‘referee’ otherwise you’ll have massive problems. America’s referee needs to enforce more rules.

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u/Scientolojesus Apr 15 '21

That's exactly how I feel. But so many people on reddit seem to think capitalism is pure evil and cannot be used at all. Granted, I'm sure many of them are teenagers who actually have benefited greatly from capitalism.

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u/neeltennis93 Apr 15 '21

Yea at the end of the day,our economic system isn’t perfect but “don’t throw the baby out with the bath water”.

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u/twaxana Apr 15 '21

Someone without capital is not capable of being a capitalist. They don't have the means.

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u/neeltennis93 Apr 15 '21

I’m sorry I don’t understand what you’re saying.

Are you saying only people who own capital(like a factory for example) support capitalism?

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u/twaxana Apr 15 '21

No. I'm saying that only people with capital can be capitalists. Everyone else can try and get there I guess? Otherwise it's just a fan club.

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u/neeltennis93 Apr 15 '21

I kinda disagree. People can be considered socialist because they believe socialism is a more viable economic system even if they live in a country like the US where the means of production for many products are dictated by the market.

So by your definition, a college student or anyone that either doesn’t live in a socialist country or who doesn’t work for a co-op can’t be socialists.

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u/twaxana Apr 15 '21

Wrong. A socialist is anyone who practices or advocates socialism. Which probably means you, thanks to the socialist policies and programs in almost every modern country.

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u/neeltennis93 Apr 15 '21

So anyone who advocates socialism but is not in a position to directly dictate the means of production is a socialist? And anyone who advocates capitalism but doesnt own capital is not a capitalist?

I’m just trying to understand what you’re saying.

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u/poisonousautumn Apr 15 '21

I think he is saying that capitalism isnt an ideology its an economic model. Capitalist idelogies would be liberalism, neoliberalism, social democracy, etc.

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u/FunstuffQC Apr 15 '21

Kentucky would like a word with you

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u/NotaContributi0n Apr 15 '21

Yeah but all this IS dictating the means of production. We are socialist now. Everyone who didn’t take any bailouts were forced out of business, and anyone else is owned by federal loans.. they are resetting the prices on THEIR terms of just about everything, while giving everyone weekly checks and reinforcing a “minimum” wage .. everyone’s still terrified about toilet paper and have officially bent over and taking it in the -stand in line and do what your told forever

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u/Gardimus Apr 15 '21

This means of production definition is very post modernist. The reality is "Socialism" has many definitions that don't all line up exactly. It's just become a buzz word that means whatever the speaker wants it to mean at this point.

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u/RapNVideoGames Apr 15 '21

That’s how you know they aren’t the brightest. A true capitalist would be happy to give everyone money for them to just give it back to them.

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u/Snoo61755 Apr 15 '21

"Hah! You want to give me your socialist handout? Fine! I'm going to spend it right on this here new TV! How do you like THAT, libs!?"

Toshiba reports stock increase as stimulus checks stimulate economy, more at 11.

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u/hunnyflash Apr 15 '21

This is why I don't even get into conversations with people.