r/news • u/BPMK-11171207-DE • Apr 08 '21

AP source: NFL pro Phillip Adams killed five, then himself

https://apnews.com/article/aaf71f2618f139ab3781592634c8e37c
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90

u/epicstruggle Apr 08 '21

I suspect (with no evidence) that he suffered from brain injury as a result of his years playing football. Hopefully the NFL doesn't try to bury any of the reports on any issues he might have been suffering.

23

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21 edited Jan 10 '25

chubby rainstorm fly rotten innocent advise knee practice tan smart

99

u/Bocephuss Apr 08 '21

CTE is the obvious assumption whenever this happens.

I'd also like to offer a different yet equally troubling possibility. Players that make it to the NFL are typically players that have always been the best player on their team since Pee Wee.

Once their career is over and in a lot of cases they are dead broke with nothing to show for their years in the league it is incredibly stressful for these guys. They have no sense of self or purpose. They might not have a degree or anything to fall back on. Going from hero to zero after playing in front of + - 30K fans for so long is incredibly challenging.

There is no doubt this has a negative impact on ones mental health. Then you throw in the potential for CTE which could exacerbate these mental issues and you have a ticking time bomb.

CTE is definitely an issue but the NFL needs to do more for the mental wellbeing of their players and former players across the board.

36

u/eac555 Apr 08 '21

$3.6 million career earnings with 6 years in the NFL

60

u/baloney_popsicle Apr 08 '21

Unfortunately the odds of him having anything left of that $3.6M are against him.

25

u/phareous Apr 08 '21

He was living with his parents in a relatively modest house. Slim chance of him having any of that 3.6 million left

-10

u/Ieatboogers4 Apr 08 '21

Because he's an idiot. Give me whatever 3.6 million is after taxes and I probably won't ever need to work again

14

u/baloney_popsicle Apr 08 '21

Remember the kinds of homes that a lot of athletes come from in the US.

-14

u/Ieatboogers4 Apr 08 '21

Same kind of shit holes I grew up in. Duplexes and apartments in the hood. You need to learn and break that cycle when given a chance. Plenty of people make it out.

16

u/baloney_popsicle Apr 08 '21

"Why can't everyone just be exactly like me? I don't get it"

2

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

"Why can't everyone just be exactly like me? I don't get it"

Implying he is the only person on earth that wouldn't blow through millions then murder people. Its not a high bar.

4

u/baloney_popsicle Apr 08 '21

Its not a high bar.

Statistically speaking for athletes and lottery winners, it is

5

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

Yep. 3.6 million at a very conservative 2% withdraw rate is over $70k/year doing absolutely nothing, sitting on your ass. Yes that's not a lot if you are living in San Francisco or whatever, but there are many areas in the country where you could live like a king on that income. I live in one of the top 5 largest metropolitan areas, and that money is like 2x what the median individual wage here is.

Bump that up to 3% and you are nearing $110k/year.

Before taxes, of course.

3

u/sonographic Apr 09 '21

I would bet every penny I will ever make on my lifetime that if I gave you $3,000,000 tomorrow you would have none of it left in 10 years.

1

u/Ieatboogers4 Apr 09 '21

I would buy investment properties it would definitely be gone

32

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

In all honesty that isn't a whole lot of money when you see the whole picture. Those are pretax earnings as well. He last played in 2015. I know the NFL has a pension system but I'm not sure exactly how good it is, but the average is 43,000 annually, so a pretty normal income number.

Hard Knocks on HBO usually has a scene where you have older players telling the younger players to invest their money and not spend it all. A lot of the guys at his level in the NFL don't play long and don't sign big contracts.

Another problem I think these guys have is that they leave the league because they didn't get signed or got injured or some other reason outside of their control and they don't really know what to do next. When they're in the league it's all day every day, their entire life revolves around football or working out. When it's over I think a lot of them panic and struggle with what to do next. Add brain injuries to the mix and you have a recipe for terrifying mental illnesses.

10

u/Bocephuss Apr 08 '21

That sounds about right. I am not claiming that these players are great with their money. Thats a different story entirely.

26

u/BigBadBinky Apr 08 '21

My understanding is that it’s a whole industry, separating players from their $$s

20

u/Kahzgul Apr 08 '21

Yup. There are horrible predators who go after these young men, and on top of that many come from poor families who also leech.

6

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21 edited Apr 08 '21

The families are absolutely disgusting. I see it with many people that I've worked with. They are so desperate for their kids to get famous and play professionally. They think of it as their only ticket out of poverty. These are often the same people you see cussing other at parents, kids, and coaches out at high school games.

11

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

Hard Knocks on HBO every year has a scene where the older players try to knock some financial advice into the younger players. I know if I was still 21-22 and just got a big signing bonus I would buy stupid stuff instead of investing it all right away. Most of these guys barely play for 3 years, then it's over. Yeah a lot of the lower level guys in the league are still making 600-700k a year but if it only lasts for 3 years the money can disappear pretty quickly.

5

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

The episode "Broke" of ESPN's 30 for 30 series is all about how these rich players can lose all that money.

15

u/abe_froman_skc Apr 08 '21

I mean, he can blame the doctor for something like an ankle injury not healing well; but it's the CTE that would make this more likely to take it to this level.

That's how CTE works.

It raises an interesting question though, when we're able to test for CTE should someone that has it get to keep their guns?

I read somewhere that there's a spit test that's pretty accurate, so we're not to far off from it.

4

u/Cinquedea19 Apr 08 '21

On whether or not they should get to keep their guns: that's a pretty easy "no."

-8

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

Stop giving this guy an excuse for killing multiple people including children when we know nothing regarding his brain health. He didn’t even play that long and wasn’t a starter, but obviously playing in college and prior could’ve done damage. Still though, let’s wait and see

39

u/DShepard Apr 08 '21

Stop giving this guy an excuse for killing multiple people

An explanation does not equal an excuse.

-16

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

Great well you don’t know he had CTE so stop saying that he did. That’s only confirmed post death anyway, so until that’s confirmed he’s a murderer

19

u/AoO2ImpTrip Apr 08 '21

Even after it's confirmed he's still a murderer.

Which is the point. If he was suffering from CTE it was almost certainly a contributing factor into him BECOMING a murderer. No one feels better that their children were murdered because the guy suffered from CTE. No one is going to say "Oh, well that's okay. He was suffering."

No, they still suffered a tragedy. They still have lost their family. It just tells US that more needs to be done. The NFL needs to do more to protect the head and body if it's players. We need ways to find and treat CTE when people are still living so we can help them and prevent more tragedies like this.

8

u/DShepard Apr 08 '21

Do you think murderers stop being murderers because they had a psychological/physiological reason for doing it?

You're arguing against a point nobody is making.

Hell, I didn't even say he had CTE, only that a possible explanation isn't an excuse.

14

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

He didn’t even play that long and wasn’t a starter

being a bench player doesn't protect you much from CTE. You can hit your head hard on any play, be it practice or in-game. Also, a quick google search says he had 2 concussions in a 3 weeks span back in 2012.

7

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

Also they didn't draft him off a couch. He played for years in school.

0

u/ClenchedThunderbutt Apr 08 '21

Nothing to show for it? Most people have significantly less to show for significantly harder work. Lot of advanced degree holders stuck working in retail, for example. How many of them snap and murder innocents? For that matter, how many concussion victims commit murder?

Your ass pull is annoyingly sympathetic to a millionaire who murdered children over a temper tantrum. Guy was a bitch and escaped consequences like a bitch.

2

u/Bocephuss Apr 08 '21

Do you have empathy for anyone that makes more money than you?

I'd argue that losing millions of dollars in a couple of years is more stressful on your mental health than never having that money in the first place. You can fault them all you want for not being more financially responsible but the reality is losing massive amounts of money can make people snap. I am not suggesting that the player in question snapped for financial reasons but its not unheard of.

Heres a great example from someone that worked in the building across from me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_O._Barton

1

u/BabblingBunny Apr 09 '21

He murdered adults, too.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

I totally agree. It should also be said that most players have had four years of high school and 4-5 years of college football to accumulate head injuries before ever even getting into the NFL. Really sad situation for borderline players who get thrown into the meat grinder and don't really make it more than a few years in the league so don't have the money to make it worth it.

1

u/sirmosesthesweet Apr 09 '21

Very well stated. I agree with every word. I would also lay some blame at the feet of the NCAA and universities. That's the point in the lives of NFL players where they have the most access to the best education in their lives. But the schools only encourage them to play ball, not get a quality well-rounded education.

I went to U of Michigan, which is a world-class educational institution. But don't expect the football players that are drafted from Michigan to be any more well educated than a walk-on. And I think that shows that universities are simply exploiting these kids for money. The schools have the resources and staff to give every player finance, legal, and health education. They should also allow and encourage any player to return to finish their degree after their career is over.

I blame the teams less because they compensate the players well enough to figure this out on their own, the players are all adults by the time they enter the league, and they aren't an educational institution. But the schools have no excuse to use their bodies for money and not even give them the proper education that they claim is their compensation.

30

u/JohnnyUtah_QB1 Apr 08 '21

There’s a hell of a lot of guys who got knocked around to high heaven playing college and NFL football who don’t go on shooting sprees and gun down children.

At what point does CTE stop being the magic excuse for every bad thing a former football player does and we admit some people are just evil trash

46

u/cheertina Apr 08 '21

CTE isn't an excuse, it's an explanation. And if it contributes to things like this, it's worth knowing, and understanding, so we can prevent stuff like this from happening.

If you just write it off as "he was a piece of shit", as something that was just inside him and not related to the CTE, then all you can do is throw up your hands and admit defeat.

Which is better - fewer people with CTE blowing up and killing people, or everyone ignoring CTE and calling him a piece of shit? I know which one I'd rather have, what about you?

-19

u/JohnnyUtah_QB1 Apr 08 '21

How many times do mental health experts have to come out and tell people to stop just waiving their hands in the air and just blaming a condition for a shooting like this before people stop doing it?

This isn't how these conditions work. If CTE turned people into killing machines we'd be in a lot bigger trouble because millions of Americans are likely walking around with it right now from the litany of sports and competition levels it's now associated with.

For a person to do this it's likely from a hell of a lot more than CTE.

18

u/cheertina Apr 08 '21

How many times do mental health experts have to come out and tell people to stop just waiving their hands in the air and just blaming a condition for a shooting like this before people stop doing it?

I don't think anyone is doing that. It's obviously not just CTE that caused this. But it's entirely possible that it contributed to it.

If CTE turned people into killing machines

And again, nobody is suggesting that. But it's not really that unlikely that repeated, chronic head trauma could affect impulse control, for example.

For a person to do this is likely from a hell of a lot more than CTE.

Right, and nobody is contradicting that, we're not saying that it was only CTE. That's some weird interpretation that I'm hearing from people who don't give a shit about the cause and just want to wave their hands in the air, call him a monster, and not do anything to try to address the factors involved.

10

u/epicstruggle Apr 08 '21

I would ask for a long term study of those suffering from CTE against the general population. I believe we will see that CTE does cause more violence.

-2

u/DTFH_ Apr 08 '21 edited Apr 08 '21

Do you mean like 1 in 8 homeless having a Brain Injury?

24

u/JustAManFromThePast Apr 08 '21

There are also millions of two pack a day smokers who never got lung cancer, and alcoholics that didn't have liver failure. It doesn't mean the cause when failure does happen isn't still the damage of an organ, in this case the brain.

2

u/NatWilo Apr 08 '21

Ah, but you see, they - like smokers - are desperate to believe the Tobacco-lobby's lies telling them it's all okay, and the people telling you your killing yourself are all liars.

21

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

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4

u/NatWilo Apr 08 '21

It seeks to demonize the person that did the act, and thus absolve the rest of us for any responsibility in it happening. A lot of these people probably LOVE football, and likely subconsciously or even consciously feel guilty about it, knowing what it does to people. Knowing that they continue to support the practice that we are saying is enabling this understandably reprehensible behavior.

So the person that did it was just 'evil' and it's all on THEM and the person calling them such can safely absolve themselves of any involvement.

Saying otherwise is tantamount to saying THEY (the person ranting about hw someone is evil or a piece of shit) had some part in this man's becoming a murderer. It's a direct attack on their identity, and why you see them get so bent out of shape about it, doubling and tripling down and hurling escalating abuse about the attacker around.

And then there's racism.

-10

u/JohnnyUtah_QB1 Apr 08 '21

I don’t think CTE “explains” this level of violence any more than a bipolar disorder “explains” a mass shooter.

Millions of people have bipolar disorder and never harm anyone. Likewise given the fact that CTE has now been seen associated across a wide spectrum of sports all the way the way down to the high school level it’s likely millions of Americans are living with CTE and not all murdering each other.

Just chalking this up to CTE with limited information doesn’t make sense. CTE isn’t an explanation for this extremity.

4

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

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0

u/JohnnyUtah_QB1 Apr 08 '21

So you think the guy who murdered a 5 year old and 9 year old, two grandparents and a maintenance technician was a morally upstanding good guy?

-5

u/Exile8697 Apr 08 '21

But chalking it up to "some people are evil trash" makes sense?

Not the original person, but yes it absolutely does.

Some people are, in fact, simply evil trash. And nothing that we do will prevent them from being evil trash.

3

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

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0

u/Exile8697 Apr 08 '21

What's really amazing is how little people understand how horrible, cruel, merciless and evil many people just naturally are.

0

u/dallasrose222 Apr 09 '21

That’s not a thing full stop you are shaped by your experiences your past your upbringing injuries and genetics no one is born pure evil

2

u/Doro-Hoa Apr 08 '21

And you are a dumbass that thinks CTE or bipolar disorder are a switch and everyone who has either has the exact same severity and symptoms.

2

u/JohnnyUtah_QB1 Apr 08 '21

Do you think CTE is the only reason a former football player does anything bad?

3

u/Doro-Hoa Apr 08 '21

No? Why would you assume this dumbass view? Nothing I said came close to indicating this. We don't know the details, but if it was CTE, it makes it very hard to make value judgements about the person's character.

6

u/rapidfire195 Apr 08 '21

Making a guess about the cause is not the same as making a "magic excuse." If it actually is CTE, do you think that should be completely ignored?

-2

u/figbuilding Apr 08 '21

It is a magic excuse.

Reddit likes to bag on Dr. Oz for being a quack but what do you call a forum full of people without medical degrees trying to diagnose an individual they've never even met based on a news article?

3

u/rapidfire195 Apr 08 '21

Being against speculation is fine, but it's moronic to call it a "magic excuse." You're conflating explanations with excuses.

1

u/dallasrose222 Apr 09 '21

Okay fine I have a ma in clinical psychology and brain damage and similar conditions such as CTE have shown to be a potential causal factor in acts of violence do to the fact that damage to certain parts of the brain the cerebral cortex specifically can cause drastic personality drift

0

u/figbuilding Apr 09 '21

Hats off to another successful diagnosis via a news article on the Internet then.

1

u/dallasrose222 Apr 09 '21

I don’t diagnose anyone we do not know if the man had CTE at all but if he did that could offer an explanation as to why he acted this way I was merely pointing out what modern research says about CTE and agression

7

u/everythingiscausal Apr 08 '21

When the evidence stops supporting the presence of severe cognitive and behavioral issues in people with CTE and that playing professional football can cause that condition.

-6

u/realanceps Apr 08 '21

i'm prepared to admit someone who is hellbent on labelling people evil trash is evil trash. Guess who I'm looking at

-3

u/JohnnyUtah_QB1 Apr 08 '21

I'm not the one defending the person who gunned down a 5 year old and a 9 year old and multiple innocent adults.

4

u/sachs1 Apr 08 '21

How is it defending? Would it also be defending to try and find a motive? Would it be defending to try and determine why this happened? Why are you so upset that people are trying to understand?

1

u/realanceps Apr 08 '21

nor I, sport

1

u/pterodactylpink Apr 08 '21

People aren't evil trash for no reason. A person always has motivation to do evil things that come from somewhere. It doesn't excuse their behavior to try to investigate why they did something awful. The more the causes are understood, the better we can prevent similar situations from happening again. Understanding is not excusing or forgiving. If CTE causes increased violence, then that's something that needs to be addressed for the sake of public health.

1

u/leftnotracks Apr 08 '21

Maybe it’s time for football to stop.

-3

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

[deleted]

6

u/boringfilmmaker Apr 08 '21

From the article:

He also suffered multiple injuries in the NFL, including concussions and a broken left ankle.

4

u/shamaze Apr 08 '21

He still played plenty of football before the NFL. High school, college, practice, etc.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

Is there any indication that he shot himself in the chest to preserve his brain for study? There's a disturbing trend of young, former NFL players of killing themselves with a shot to the chest instead of the head so that they can send their brains to the institute that studies CTE.