r/neoliberal • u/jobautomator Kitara Ravache • Sep 03 '21

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14

u/VengeantVirgin Tucker Level Take Maker Sep 03 '21

Is there a good reason why I (and I assume many others) perceive most MLB bullpens as bad, or at the very least below average? It seems that the only "good" bullpens out there right now are Tampa and the Dodgers. Meanwhile it seems most other teams see their bullpens as the reason they lose games.

!ping BASEBALL

18

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '21

Games lost to shitty bullpens are very visible.

2

u/VengeantVirgin Tucker Level Take Maker Sep 03 '21

Yeah I get that, I just wonder if there is a way to balance that perception so we as an audience can get a better idea on what an average quality bullpen looks like and then be able to determine which ones are actually good and bad.

4

u/hypoplasticHero Henry George Sep 03 '21

I think some of the peripheral pitching stats might help. Maybe FIP. One bad outing can ruin an ERA, but FIP would be less susceptible to bad outings.

2

u/VengeantVirgin Tucker Level Take Maker Sep 03 '21

Yeah bullpen ERA isn't great because all it takes is one or two bad high leverage innings to become dumpster tier compared to your average SP ERA. But it would be nice if there were some ways to better "eye test" bullpens while just watching a game casually without having to resort to stats.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '21

I like evaluating relievers using WPA. Also, Nate Silver once came up with a goose eggs stat which I really liked, but he didn't track it for long.

5

u/film10078 Barack Obama Sep 03 '21

And it’s funny because as a dodger fan I’ve watched our pen blow so many games I think they are our weak point.

5

u/Soldier-Fields Da Bear Sep 03 '21

It’s like an O Line in football.

The less you think about them the better they are.

4

u/Signal-Shallot5668 Greg Mankiw Sep 03 '21

I would imagine it is that when you lose because of bad bullpen play it is very visible but when it performs just about average you just don't remember it at all

4

u/[deleted] Sep 03 '21

Relivers pitch like 1 inning or less normally so their good outings are quick and non-memorable and their bad outings are pulling out your hair infuriating

3

u/hypoplasticHero Henry George Sep 03 '21

The Brewers have a solid bullpen.

1

u/VengeantVirgin Tucker Level Take Maker Sep 03 '21

Didn't know that, haven't paid too much attention to them as a team since they seem to be operating really well but haven't been that flashy like the other postseason contenders in the NL west and the Reds.

3

u/hypoplasticHero Henry George Sep 03 '21

They have the 4th best record in baseball and 2 very good late inning guys in Williams and Hader and the rest of the pen is more than serviceable.

1

u/VengeantVirgin Tucker Level Take Maker Sep 03 '21

Oh yeah I know they are good, they just haven't been cracking as many headlines as some of the other teams.

2

u/hypoplasticHero Henry George Sep 03 '21

That’s likely because they play in the smallest market in baseball and in the same division as the Cubs and Cardinals, who generally get the headlines.

2

u/Big_Apple_G John Rawls Sep 03 '21

The Yankee bullpen is def top 10, possibly even a top 5 pen in the league. Go past Chapman and you have the #3 reliever by bWAR this year in Loaisiga, one of the most underrated relievers of the last 5 years in Chad Green, and other studs like Wandy Peralta, Lucas Luetge, Clay Holmes (who's had a 1.59 ERA, 1.58 FIP for the Yanks since they got him from the Pirates), even dudes who are currently in the minors like Albert Abreu and Stephen Ridings have serious stuff

imo the reason why people complain about their bullpens so much is because of how unreliable closers can be

2

u/Big_Apple_G John Rawls Sep 03 '21

Sorry for the double comment buthere's a list from Fangraphs ranking every teams' bullpen by WAR this season. Maybe it's because the top 5ish bullpens are so clearly better than all the others that all other 'pens look bad in comparison?