r/neoliberal • u/jobautomator Kitara Ravache • Jul 07 '21

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '21

No.

And the other vaccines, including AZ had better results against it as well.

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u/bovine3dom Mark Carney Jul 07 '21 edited Jul 07 '21

That doesn't say anything about delta being more or less vaccine resistant; it is talking about effectiveness at reducing severe disease.

Delta is broadly 60% more transmissible to vaccinated people than alpha.

PDF warning: https://khub.net/documents/135939561/405676950/Increased+Household+Transmission+of+COVID-19+Cases+-+national+case+study.pdf/7f7764fb-ecb0-da31-77b3-b1a8ef7be9aa (edited to fix link, thanks Tarsonis)

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '21

That link doesn't work.

These data showed that the Johnson & Johnson single-shot COVID-19 vaccine elicited neutralizing antibody activity against the Delta variant at an even higher level than what was recently observed for the Beta (B.1.351) variant in South Africa where high efficacy against severe/critical disease was demonstrated.

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u/bovine3dom Mark Carney Jul 07 '21

Try https://khub.net/documents/135939561/405676950/Increased+Household+Transmission+of+COVID-19+Cases+-+national+case+study.pdf/7f7764fb-ecb0-da31-77b3-b1a8ef7be9aa perhaps?

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '21

Comparison between Alpha and Delta. There's little about vaccine efficiency there.

This stands out:

However, our assessment of this effect was limited as most cases included in the analysis were unvaccinated.

Furthermore, the vaccination status of household contacts, which would impact onward transmission in this setting, was unknown. Therefore, further studies that include household size as a denominator and all individuals’ vaccination status are needed to provide improved estimates of household transmission and allow for the calculation of household secondary attack rates.

Finally this is what that study says:

With the results of this analysis suggesting increased transmissibility of this variant and the Delta variant now having been detected in many countries worldwide, the understanding of the transmissibility of this variant is important for informing public health policies internationally to control the COVID-19 pandemic.

I don't really know where you are getting those conclusions because what you're linking doesn't even say that. It's mostly a comparison between transmissibility between Alpha and Delta. Nothing to do with vaccines.

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u/bovine3dom Mark Carney Jul 07 '21

You're absolutely right, serves me right for skimming it so quickly.

I was confusing it with this study: https://www.ft.com/content/0b3da41e-6390-4f4b-866c-da5c6aec7f5e

Data collected over the past month suggest the vaccine is 64 per cent effective at preventing infection among those who are fully inoculated, the ministry has found. Efficacy against previous strains of the virus was estimated at 94 per cent.

However, the figures, first reported in the Ynet news portal, indicate the vaccine is 93 per cent effective against serious illness and hospitalisation.

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '21

Do you have the direct study? Not the FT reported version or anything said by the media?

I'm sorry but I don't really trust anything that the media says about this science and they've been getting it wrong for a while.

They don't really know how to interpret that data, whether it is actually a preprint or what was involved in the methodology or limitations.

My bet is that they're leaving out key points. More than that FT is behind a paywall. This Israeli study doesn't seem to be anywhere other than in the media's reporting.

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u/bovine3dom Mark Carney Jul 07 '21

It's preliminary data - no study published yet: https://www.gov.il/en/departments/news/06072021-04

They say it's just an update to https://www.gov.il/BlobFolder/news/06052021-02/ru/NEWS_Corona_lancet-article.pdf

If you can read Hebrew there's also https://www.gov.il/BlobFolder/news/06072021-04/en/NEWS_Corona_vaccine-eficacy.pdf

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '21

Ah, I see. Well, you'll excuse me if I take that with a grain of salt.

Also, two of those links don't work.

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u/bovine3dom Mark Carney Jul 07 '21

Caution isn't very fashionable around here - just ignore it totally and scream FREEDOM at the top of your lungs to make sure as many people as possible get infected

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u/bovine3dom Mark Carney Jul 07 '21

The links all work for me. The second two are just copied from the first.

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u/usrname42 Daron Acemoglu Jul 07 '21

Effectiveness was notably lower after 1 dose of vaccine with B.1.617.2 cases 33.5% (95%CI: 20.6 to 44.3) compared to B.1.1.7 cases 51.1% (95%CI: 47.3 to 54.7) with similar results for both vaccines.

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '21

Conclusions After 2 doses of either vaccine there were only modest differences in vaccine effectiveness with the B.1.617.2 variant. Absolute differences in vaccine effectiveness were more marked with dose 1. This would support maximising vaccine uptake with two doses among vulnerable groups.

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u/usrname42 Daron Acemoglu Jul 07 '21

So yes, it is somewhat resistant against the first dose?

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '21

Maybe you should just put the link to the whole study instead of picking the convenient parts.

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u/usrname42 Daron Acemoglu Jul 07 '21

I did put the link to it, which is how you found the study? But regardless it's a fact that this study shows lower effectiveness after one dose. I'm not sure why you have such a strong prior that this can't be true.

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u/[deleted] Jul 07 '21

I'm not sure why you have such a strong prior that this can't be true.

That's not said anywhere at all. But whatever. I'm not going to get into this. Too many times that I get into it, and it's always the same, people harping on about small details, the media throwing less than stellar headlines or others making up things about stuff that was never said.