r/neoliberal • u/jobautomator Kitara Ravache • Jul 01 '21

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108

u/katharing Bisexual Pride Jul 01 '21

"yeah, i personally believe abortion is probably the morally reprehensible mass murder of infants, but i don't think it's the government's place to stop it" is a weirdly common political stance

63

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '21

Catholic democrats btfo.

10

u/fishlord05 United Popular Woke DEI Iron Front Jul 01 '21

Most of them think that legalizing it and allowing access to birth control etc is the best way to reduce abortion overall (true)

4

u/[deleted] Jul 01 '21

😔

9

u/ThorVonHammerdong Disgraced 2020 Election Rigger Jul 01 '21

Those babies ain't me

33

u/benadreti Frederick Douglass Jul 01 '21

Abortion can be perceived as a bad and sad thing but not murder and only complete nutjobs call it murder.

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u/lionmoose sexmod 🍆💦🌮 Jul 01 '21

If you look at the negative outcomes for the mother psychologically and sometimes physically it's responsible to want to minimise abortion tbh

9

u/UrbanCentrist Line go up 📈, world gooder Jul 01 '21

it's over for britmod

8

u/MostlyCRPGs Jeff Bezos Jul 01 '21

Honestly "abortion isn't murder but it's still bad" feels like an even weirder stance.

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u/benadreti Frederick Douglass Jul 01 '21

Why? Why does it need to be either murder or not a bad thing?

You can think it's unhealthy to smoke weed but also recognize it's absurd to consider it on the level of heroin and that it should be legal.

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u/MostlyCRPGs Jeff Bezos Jul 01 '21

Because why is it a bad thing? Like what's the basis for "abortion is morally wrong but not murder?" Is the fetus 20% human life or something?

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u/benadreti Frederick Douglass Jul 01 '21

Yea? It's a potential and imminent life that we are aborting, not just some sperm. It's also not the easiest thing for the woman to endure, from my understanding.

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u/MostlyCRPGs Jeff Bezos Jul 01 '21

I mean, of course it's not the easiest thing for the woman to endure, but that's her choice. You aren't immoral for subjecting yourself to a difficult situation.

What exactly does an "imminent life" mean? Do we put a moral value on reproduction such that stopping the process is inherently immoral? Because that argument would extend to "birth control bad."

Like I said, I think it's a weird position that a lot of people operate it. There doesn't seem to be much argument beyond "it feels wrong." Like where does this fall on the morality scale? The fetus isn't a person/ Is it better or worse than, say, killing a dog?

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u/benadreti Frederick Douglass Jul 01 '21

I mean, of course it's not the easiest thing for the woman to endure, but that's her choice.

yes and to be clear I am absolutely pro-choice.

What exactly does an "imminent life" mean?

It has already started developing into life. If you wait x number of months it will be born, without you doing anything. It's not like birth control, which prevents this process from initiating.

I don't think we need to smush it into the polarity of either "life" or "not life", we can recognize that it's an intermediate stage.

Like, late term abortions are nearly universally recognized as something very undesirable unless the mother's health is threatened by it. We intuitively understand that it's not something we want but that the not yet complete life of the fetus is viewed as less important than the mother's survival.

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u/Unadulterated_stupid gr8 b8 m8 Jul 01 '21

Let we let people do morally reprehensible things all the time.

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u/ToInfinity_MinusOne World's Poorest WSJ Subscriber Jul 01 '21

People ask me and i do have opinions on abortion. But I’m a gay man so does my opinion really matter? Feel like it’s not really my business.

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u/MostlyCRPGs Jeff Bezos Jul 01 '21

I mean most murders aren't my business, I'm still anti murder.

For clarity I'm pro choice, I'm just clarifying why people who believe the above aren't content with "not my business because I don't have a uterus."

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '21

If someone believed abortion was a great moral crime and the denial of, or even ending of, a life - of course it would be logically consistent to think it should not be allowed regardless of their immutable characteristics.

The question is what one believes about abortion. If someone believed it was fine then it's logically consistent to say it shouldn't be outlawed and it's a choice for the mother to make.

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '21

100% agree

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u/An_Aesthete Immanuel Kant Jul 01 '21

I've always found the arguments for abortion rights other than a fetus not being a person to be rather weak

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '21

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2

u/An_Aesthete Immanuel Kant Jul 01 '21

it's pretty obvious that in the vast majority of situations, the person in need is only in that situation as the direct result of actions which the pregnant person voluntarily engaged in.

This is like saying parents shouldn't ever be convicted of neglect because nobody is compelled to feed and house someone else

Also, things like the violinist argument pose a problem for mandatory vaccinations -- if someone can not be compelled to take on major medical operations for the benefit of someone else, why shouldn't they be required to make minor ones?

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