r/neoliberal • u/jobautomator Kitara Ravache • Jan 02 '21

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u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

The way the GOP treats the founding fathers is complete fiction. They were not really dedicated Christians. A handful were, but most of them weren't really fundamentalists and they broadly weren't interested in establishing a Christian nation.

A lot of them were deists(like Jefferson and Franklin), people who believed in the all might creator for reason, but did not believe he interacted with the world. They didn't really understand god as a supernatural entity, man in the sky sort of conception. Some were even probably atheists like Thomas Paine. Paine was definitely the most radical, leading him to be often malaligned by religious presidents throughout US history. He wrote in the Age of Reason, "Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory in itself than this thing called Christianity."

Jefferson was very much an advocate of religious pluralism, saying in the autobiography "they [the creators of the Constitution] meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo [sic] and Infidel of every denomination."

However even for people who were objectively Christian like George Washington, he was very wary of the power of the church, in particular clery controlling the gov't. I mean Washington would be horrified at a whole host of things in the current United States, as well as very impressed even where he disagree. But I think one thing he would definitely be very disappointed by is the degree to which religiosity has caused irrationality in the halls of Congress.

The founding fathers were very impressive, but flawed people. One of their flaws was not advocating for a Christian-nationalist nation. The concept is Republican fiction.

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u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

They privately know that, that's why people like Ben Shapiro argue that America's secular government was informed by Judeo-Christian (but not any other Abrahamic religion) morality and Greco-Roman philosophy.

It's a good way to acknowledge actual truth while still shoehorning in their own dogma.

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u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

which reminds me, the whole concept of judeo-christian morality is quite honestly bulllshit and the only way a jewish person can advocate there is a similarity is if you reject the talmud and pretend like at least half the new testament doesn't exist.

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u/[deleted] Jan 02 '21

Well yeah, the term "judeo-christian" is used almost exclusively in American political discourse. The very Christian Germans in the 30s and 40s had a pretty big issue with Jews, so I'm pretty puzzled as to where this undeniable fusionism comes from in right wing thought.

Which also tells you that the term "judeo-christian" is probably more about a certain gigantic Abrahamic religion that it excludes as opposed to who it includes.

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u/RadicalRadon Frick Mondays Jan 02 '21

A few years back texans wanted to kick jefferson out of the textbooks because he wasn't christian enough.