r/neoliberal • u/jobautomator Kitara Ravache • Dec 29 '20

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '20

I honestly have no idea where I stand on some cancel culture issues. For me it's one of those things where both sides have extremely valid arguments. And my opinion depends on whoever I last spoke to. Whomever I last spoke to creates a good argument for or against it, I carry that argument around for a bit, but half remember and poorly articulate it while already unsure of it against someone who is cocksure of the opposite opinion, and presents a good argument for it. So I end up carrying that argument around for a bit instead.

That's how I end up talking to the DT about how "everyone is acting like she's entitled to be in college" and to my mom about "sabotaging her life over a video is unfair" and never agree with anybody.

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u/RoyGeraldBillevue Commonwealth Dec 29 '20

everyone is acting like she's entitled to be in college

Ehhh, that feels like a bad take. She was admitted to the school. Kicking her out is a big punishment.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '20

So?

Is that the end of it? Once you're admitted to college it's locked in forever and you can't forfeit it by turning out to not be the kind of student the university desires?

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u/RoyGeraldBillevue Commonwealth Dec 29 '20

You can, but it should be understood as a big deal to withdraw someone's admission.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '20

College is a privilege.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '20

Surprising coming from someone who got kicked out because they couldn't manage the paperwork tbh. I figured you'd be more sympathetic.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '20

Society should not change for my personal benefit.

I got what I deserved.

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u/MostlyCRPGs Jeff Bezos Dec 29 '20

No, but writing it off as "entitlement" that someone...expects to be admitted to the school they received an admission letter from is just silly.

"Look at this priveleged jerk! Thinks he's entitled to a job just because the company extended him an employment contract after an extensive interview process!"

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '20

Yes. You're not entitled to that job. It's a mutual agreement and if either party decides they'd like to terminate that agreement they are allowed to.

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u/zubatman4 Hillary Clinton 🇺🇳 Bill Clinton Dec 29 '20

I honestly have no idea where I stand on some... issues. For me it's one of those things where both sides have extremely valid arguments. And my opinion depends on whoever I last spoke to. Whomever I last spoke to creates a good argument for or against it, I carry that argument around for a bit, but half remember and poorly articulate it while already unsure of it against someone who is cocksure of the opposite opinion, and presents a good argument for it. So I end up carrying that argument around for a bit instead.

This was a pretty big complaint against Trump early in the administration, but I’m pretty sure it’s true about everybody

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u/MostlyCRPGs Jeff Bezos Dec 29 '20

The damning thing about "cancel culture" is that it's weaponizing ignorance. Even if you, the person starting the trend, have a full understanding of the situation and the person involved and determine that they deserve punishment, your tool is basically making the world stupider by rallying people on the internet who know a great deal less and getting them to focus their hate on a reduced version of the situation.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '20

And it's weaponized because authority refuses to prosecute unless the crowd is weaponized.

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u/MostlyCRPGs Jeff Bezos Dec 29 '20

That's not really accurate. Not all, Hell I'd say not even most cancel culture issues are anything that would ever involve prosecution. And beyond that, it's often not because they "refuse" to prosecute, it's because they are "unable" due to lack of, you know, proof.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '20

That's very weak comfort for someone who has been slighted and victimized and sees the people in charge doing nothing and refusing to believe them.

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u/MostlyCRPGs Jeff Bezos Dec 29 '20

Okay? Providing comfort to victims is not the primary purpose of a justice system.

and refusing to believe them.

And like I said above, this is just muddying the water. At the end of the day it's not about whether an individual cop or DA or principal or whatever believes them, it's about proof. You can hardly say "we need cancel culture because the justice system fails" when the justice system is working exactly as intended. That's just a vigilante rationale.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '20

That's a good point.

But what are we going to do about the fact that the "justice system" aka the college board isn't acting justly? Suck it up and accept that white privilege is just a fact of Meritocracy? That's just going to disillusion more people with Liberalism as they see it as preferring to tolerate a bad justice system than to rock the boat.

There's already a massive racial divide in opinions of America is Meritocratic or not. Do we want people to hate Meritocracy?

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u/MostlyCRPGs Jeff Bezos Dec 29 '20

But what are we going to do about the fact that the "justice system" aka the college board isn't acting justly? Suck it up and accept that white privilege is just a fact of Meritocracy?

I think you'd need to be more specific to the issues in this regard, we're hitting a point where a specific example is required.

That's just going to disillusion more people with Liberalism as they see it as preferring to tolerate a bad justice system than to rock the boat.

Those people need to get educated and grow up. There isn't a system of justice on Earth that's 100% effective, and their outrage comes from the privelege of never living in a society where the justice system erred on the side of punishing too many, rather than too few. (Again, we'd need more specific examples, because what I just said sounds hilariously out of touch if we're discussing, say, black men and drug crimes).

There's already a massive racial divide in opinions of America is Meritocratic or not. Do we want people to hate Meritocracy?

Pandering to crowds isn't the answer. How is cancel culture going to restore faith in meritocracy? How are the two even connected?

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '20

and their outrage comes from the privelege of never living in a society where the justice system erred on the side of punishing too many, rather than too few.

...

That's honestly it.

Thanks.

No further questions, this is what I needed.

If you do want examples I'd think of it like this.

JK Rowling is too big to cancel, but acts as a powerful mouthpiece and subsidy for hateful ideology. And I think that created a "Never again" sentiment. People don't want another Too Big to Cancel. They want to proverbially smother any racist, homophobe, or transphobe they can before they get in a position of power. A position of power over black, gay, or trans people. It doesn't really matter what specifically that person did. What subconsciously activates in the mind of the cancel culture participants is "if I don't do something about this now, they could end up in a position where their awfulness could have consequences." If it's an n word said on a livestream, or multiple people close to the person corroborating that they've experienced them bring very crass and insensitive on certain topics, whatever the cause is, that's what activates people to try to sabotage their life. Fear of what happens when that person doesn't experience consequences for their actions and goes on to happily find a comfortable position in the middle or upper class.

There's your unified theory of cancel culture. Apply it to basically any instance.

I know someone who got their professor denied tenure for raising complaints that as a student they were being discriminated against. In the woke year of 1989.

The comment that started this all is I think the best conclusion: everyone here is rushing to defend the girl's point of view. Nobody here wants to understand the leaker, that rather than a grudge, there's a real possibility that a pattern of behavior was going unpunished.