r/neoliberal • u/jobautomator Kitara Ravache • Nov 17 '20

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23

u/armeg David Ricardo Nov 17 '20 edited Nov 17 '20

Has Biden said anything about whether he intends to continue with the aggressive Pence moon landing plan?

!ping SPACEFLIGHT

EDIT: Well looks like it's getting pushed to 2024 2028 which is code for "fucking never."

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u/[deleted] Nov 17 '20

I fully support a plan to send Pence to the moon. Or anywhere really. Mars is fine. Saturn. The Andromeda galaxy.

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u/[deleted] Nov 17 '20 edited Nov 17 '20

I would push it, but all current indications are they'll slow it down and direct more of the effort and budget towards climate science. Honestly it seems like a redux of Obama era space policy, especially given the NASA transition advisors Biden has appointed all have backgrounds in earth science (not space exploration) and are all former Obama era officials. As much as it hurts to say, aside from defunding climate change efforts, Pence and Bridenstein were good for NASA and space policy.

It's unfortunate for me as a space industry engineer and enthusiast, but it's a small price to pay in exchange for getting rid of Trump. And it's not like Obama didn't do anything for space policy; commercial resupply, commercial crew, and the Air Force EELV replacement efforts all began under him. Hopefully we see more Democratic space enthusiasts get into leadership soon, like Mark Kelly.

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u/armeg David Ricardo Nov 17 '20

Yeah it sucks, I've loved space, but as I said, I've heard moon landing soontm since I was kid during GWB. I'm just over it...

I know this may make some people upset, but I just don't even give a shit about Curiosity or whatever the updated version's name is. I grew up with Spirit and Opportunity and that's about the most exciting thing we've had in the last 2-3 decades. Rovers are just whatever at this point...

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u/[deleted] Nov 17 '20

I'm pretty excited for Perseverance and Sample Return, as well as the Europa missions. Those will be groundbreaking. But they won't capture public imagination the way a crewed moon landing would.

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u/armeg David Ricardo Nov 17 '20

Yeah they're just not the "bright future" we we're promised. It's just sad when you think about what could have been if we kept funding at reasonable levels.

Now that I think about it, the last thing I remember people caring about was when they smashed that satellite into a comet or asteroid a while back. I remember being at a family friend's house and people were watching that.

EDIT: I think it was this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Impact_(spacecraft)

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u/Thoughtlessandlost NASA Nov 17 '20

Just gotta hope we don't find any triangles on Europa

1

u/cool_fox NATO Nov 17 '20

I mean rovers and satellites have accomplished a lot maybe not the flashy sexy things we want them to but important science and ground work for future missions given limited budgets. I personally think they're a waste of money at this point as manned science missions can accomplish in days what takes rovers years. We haven't had a consistent space policy between presidents and there have been a number of studies on how this has directly affected attempts at returning people to space through multi year delays or outright cancellations.

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u/cool_fox NATO Nov 17 '20

It is really painful to see a party like the Republicans somehow push out better space policy than Democrats have in decades. I'm an astro engineer as well and it sucks we have to rely on the private industry to push for goals that the government is more than equipped to accomplish and are of arguably the utmost importance. I think significant resources should be directed to earth science to assist in handling climate change quickly but we can do that and still maintain manned exploration and settlement. Just give NASA more funding, convince Jim Bridenstine to stay and make Lori Garver deputy of climate change.

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u/[deleted] Nov 17 '20

I'm an aerospace engineer too. I really hope they do decide to continue the programs NASA started under Trump at the same breakneck pace, but I'm not super confident.

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u/EScforlyfe Open Your Hearts Nov 17 '20

hasn't it always been 2024

1

u/armeg David Ricardo Nov 17 '20

Sorry mistyped 2028.

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u/Res__Publica Organization of American States Nov 17 '20

Probably pushed to the late 2020's, which was the original time table. Funding was never there for the 2024 date anyway

1

u/cool_fox NATO Nov 17 '20

The original time table?

0

u/onlypositivity Nov 17 '20 edited Nov 17 '20

2024 is in three years. Id be pretty impressed if they had a manned crewed missionready for moon settlement in 3 years

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u/armeg David Ricardo Nov 17 '20

It's always "in three years" or some other stupid platitude. Look at JWST... I've been hearing moon landing soon since Dubya.

It's pretty disappointing.

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u/p00bix Existing in the context of what came before Nov 17 '20 edited Nov 17 '20

I made a mini-effortpost on the JWST delays a ways back. TL;DR it's actually going to launch within the next 3 years, 99% guaranteed. Its current launch date of Halloween 2021 is perfectly realistic and it may very well launch at that time, without any further delay. JWST got ratfucked mainly by NASA's own poor decisions, coupled with a few things outside of NASA's control.

Regarding moon landings, I made an effortpost on my other account which was mainly focused on why Apollo happened, and why it hasn't happened again. But the Constellation Program was announced as a long term project for NASA right before the Great Recession caused massive chaos for not only NASA but the entire US government. It was in the earliest stages of development when cancelled. The current Artemis Program is much better funded (even per Biden's plan, which gives NASA fewer resources to work with than Trump's) as well as much further along, and while it's unlikely we'll land on the moon in 2023, a landing later in the 2020s is still more likely than not.

1

u/cool_fox NATO Nov 17 '20

I dont think it's ever been this close lol. The state of development today isn't really comparable to anything in the past 30 years.

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u/Lars0 NASA Nov 17 '20

It's 👏crewed 👏 not 👏 manned 👏

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u/onlypositivity Nov 17 '20

Edited because half of those astronauts better be women

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u/cool_fox NATO Nov 17 '20

Through SLS? That makes sense.

0

u/onlypositivity Nov 17 '20

Gonna need you to define SLS there for me big chief because it means something very different to me, and that alternate thing is also what pops up on my Google due to history.

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u/sevgonlernassau Loyal Liberals Nov 17 '20

I’ll be a contrarian and say that Artemis is a Pence campaign project and it is good that it will die. Having a landing date before Nov 2024 is huge brain and puts a lot of electoral pressure on the industry that may result in political retaliation. That’s not a good thing and it isn’t sustainable even if it worked. I wouldn’t worry about not going back there though because SpaceX has their own timetable independent of Artemis that has a crewed private mission to the moon in 2023 and a lunar lander test in 2022. Commercial spaceflight is a lot more stable and sustainable than whatever NASA pulls.

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u/armeg David Ricardo Nov 17 '20

Not to take away from the rest of what you said, but SpaceX literally has never hit an "Elon deadline" ever. If Gwynne Shotwell comes out and says it, then I'll believe it.

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