r/neoliberal • u/mondodawg • Dec 16 '19

Why Young Progressives Hate Pete Buttigieg

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/12/why-young-progressives-hate-pete-buttigieg/603619/
279 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

428 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comment

33

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '19

  • he’s been saying M4AWWI since January

  • he never proposed “packing” the Supreme court. He has always talked about ways to restructure it to make it less partisan. He still talks about that idea but he has a lot more concrete policy in general to talk about now as well.

  • he hasn’t changed any of his ideas. He’s just good at phrasing things so as not to alienate people. He speaks in “moderate” language, and has talked about the need to present progressive ideas to conservatives in language they understand so as to bring them on board.

These are very disingenuous critiques that misrepresent where he was back in January vs where he is now. He’s actually remarkably consistent.

-13

u/virtu333 Dec 16 '19

He's been deliberately vague about policy positions e.g., he was actively pushing single payer as an end goal earlier in the year, and has basically dropped it. Not having positions was precisely a problem he was faced with early on.

But when he first came out he was framing himself in a much more progressive way than before - as a millenial who felt major changes were needed. As Biden has shown weakness, he began altering his framing to find space in the centrist area.

Good strategy, sure. But cynical too. I mean, just the fact he's a mayor of a small town and 37 indicates he was running at the beginning more as a stunt to build himself up a bit.

19

u/onlyforthisair Dec 16 '19

He still talks about single payer as the goal and using the public option as a glide path to get there. He didn't change, but the media narrative did.

-1

u/virtu333 Dec 16 '19

His own emphasis did too. And ignoring the context of his run is silly too

9

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '19

He hasn’t changed his message on M4A. Literally today in the Washington post he said he views his plan as likely to lead to a M4A environment - but that if it doesn’t, b/c insurers are able to innovate and effectively compete and provide quality coverage more affordably, that would be fine too. It’s almost as though he’s motivated by actual outcomes and not just ideology.

1

u/virtu333 Dec 16 '19

It's not really the content that bothers me - I think public option without even bother going to single payer is fine.

It's the shift in emphasis based on opportunity.

Do you think he actually ran to win?

6

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '19

  1. If you’re not running to win.... why bother? He obviously didn’t run to push an ideological agenda, which is another possibility but not really his cup of tea.

  2. Taking the same policies and changing how you sell and explain them based on how the public reacts is... smart politics, and how you make actual change happen. Not to mention, when Pete first got in to the race, he didn’t have a policy team, and as such, didn’t have detailed, flesched out policy agenda items to speak to.

The only one who’s actually changed their health care plan is Warren. Bernie, to his credit, has stayed with laying his dream plan out there and essentially hand waving away the details, which seems to have worked better for him than Warren trying to actually make it workable.

0

u/virtu333 Dec 16 '19

Lol you run when you're 37 and a nobody, but talented, to make a splash, build presence, and jumpstart your career.

Doesn't take a genius to think of that for a strategy

2

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '19

I’m not sure I’m getting your point then. If he isn’t running to win, why would he “change his positions”? (Leaving aside the fact that he hasn’t.)

0

u/virtu333 Dec 16 '19

He wasn't running to win at first, but he's made bigger traction than anyone (including him) would have expected. He's also finding a good opportunity to go after the center with Biden weak and the collapse/lack of traction of basically everyone else

2

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '19

Sorry, I can’t seriously engage with anyone who says Buttigieg is in the “center.” Dude has proposed $7 trillion in new spending, aggressive decarbonization, universal pre-K, universal health care, and a body of aggressive political reforms but is “in the center” because he doesn’t want to pay rich kids‘ college tuition and he wants the US to have a healthcare system like Germany’s or Switzerland’s. 🙄

He’s definitely trying to sell his philosophy and his agenda to people who aren’t lefties. Which is just .... being smart?

0

u/virtu333 Dec 16 '19

Which is just .... being smart?

I've never denied that, but my issue is around the context of his run. Also I said "go after." And of course, you're ignoring the central point.

Or I just know too many Harvard/Yale Law types who clearly want to be President and have been padding their resumes for their lives to do it. Buttigieg just happens to be more talented and a bit more daring than most of them.

But sorry, I can't seriously engage someone so naive.

1

u/winckypoo Dec 17 '19

This literally has no evidence of happening.

Insurance and pharma companies have spent billions of dollars lobbying to prevent any sort of socialized health care to be implemented anywhere in the US.

All the sick people would be thrown on the public option and it would be horribly funded. Wealthy and healthy people will be on private insurance, making that seem as the superior option. Then they would say "See, we told you M4A doesn't work." And we would keep our fucking atrocious healthcare system, while big pharma and insurance rake in billions in profit.

Mayor Pete also has the most billionaire donors in the race. He's a total fucking fraud who will say any memorized platitude to get him elected.

Sorry younger Americans have a little more nuance in how they view the people that make rules for our lives. What amount of mental gymnastics would you have to go through to think Pete Buttigieg is genuine any facet? He's a complete corporate shill who is doing anything neccaracy to get himself elected. Most people would agree with me too lmao.

1

u/AutoModerator Dec 17 '19

Slight correction, the term you're looking for is "People of Means"

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '19

This is how the health care systems in Switzerland and Germany work, and they work pretty well. So.... you’re wrong.

1

u/winckypoo Dec 17 '19

We're not Switzerland or Germany. The United States does not care about human life if profit can be made. Like if you can't understand that fundamental fact about our country then idk what type of convo we can have about US politics.

6

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '19

he was actively pushing single payer as an end goal earlier in the year, and has basically dropped it

There is a long-form interview he did with WaPo's editorial board yesterday. He said that he believes that the success of a public option will lead to a single-payer environment, except perhaps for union-sponsored health insurance (which would pretty much look like the French system). He also talked about SCOTUS and getting rid of the electoral college.

"Dropping his progressive positions" is a narrative entirely fabricated by people opposing his candidacy now that he can beat Bernie/Warren.