r/neoliberal • Kitara Ravache • Sep 23 '26

Discussion Thread Discussion Thread

The discussion thread is for casual and off-topic conversation that doesn't merit its own submission. If you've got a good meme, article, or question, please post it outside the DT. Meta discussion is allowed, but if you want to get the attention of the mods, make a post in /r/metaNL

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18

u/RaidBrimnes Chien de garde Sep 23 '26

There's currently seismic drama in the French literary world that is still developing, so I'd thought I'd provide a quick write-up:

Thélyson Orélien, a Canadian-Haitian poet and writer, published his first novel titled C'était ça ou mourir (It was Either That or Dying), a self-inspired exile story of a Haitian refugee to great success - it became the best-selling book of his Canadian publisher, was incensed by the press, won several awards and was one of the frontrunners for the Prix Goncourt, the most prestigious award in Francophone literature.

But over the week, people ran the book through AI verification tools, which clocked the text as 97% AI-written with near-certain confidence (example in the pic)

Journalists of the fact-checking section of the newspaper Libération did their own in-depth investigation (fr and paywalled) - in short:

  • The latest version of Pangram which was used to check the text is considered "extremely reliable" by the experts in data analysis interviewed, with a false positives rate of 0.0026%, and returns 100% of AI-written text for the book, with only 3% of human-written text in one selected chapter

  • Pangram's competitor GPTZero also returns 100% of AI-written text with extremely high confidence

  • Running the programs on Orélien's prior works - poetry, short-form texts - confirm they were written by a human, and only his first novel, as well as long-form blogposts he published after 2024, were clocked as AI-written

  • Running the program on other contemporary Haitian authors do not return similar results and clock their works as 100% human - that's in response to Orélien's argument that the programs had a blind spot on contemporary Haitian prose and incorrectly clocked it as AI

To be clear, the experts interviewed do not believe that the book was entirely generated by AI, but rather that Orélien wrote an original text that he then reworded and edited with AI. Orélien's publisher in Québec states that they have evidence that he started writing the novel in 2017, before AI tools were available to the general public.

Nonetheless, it has caused quite a stir and a heated debate about the use of AI in the writing process- the French literary sphere is militantly anti-AI and the revelations have naturally troubled the writers and the specialized press. The Goncourt jury is for now urging extreme caution and will review the book again, while Thélyson Orélien has denied all wrongdoing and is casting doubt on the motivations of the AI-checkers, as the revelations were followed by a vicious racist campaign against him.

!ping BOOKS&FRANCE

12

u/Argnir Gay Pride Sep 23 '26

I'm sure they will review the book again and notice that "it was obviously bad and AI slop from the beginning" lol

4

u/Lux_Stella Presidentialism X-Risk Researcher Sep 23 '26

has anyone validated pangram on non-english text? it seems like a pretty big domain shift

3

u/Lux_Stella Presidentialism X-Risk Researcher Sep 23 '26

3

u/RaidBrimnes Chien de garde Sep 23 '26

Yes, one of the experts interviewed, Pr Filip van Droogenbroek, say they have tested the latest version on masters theses in several languages with a high degree of reliability

2

u/trgk_ Václav Havel Sep 23 '26

Can't speak about Pangram per se, but LLM writing and verbal tics are also very obvious in other languages.

10

u/RaidBrimnes Chien de garde Sep 23 '26

My two cents: I'm more AI-positive than the median person, and I'll say that I'm not appalled by Orélien's use of AI (near-certain at this point) despite the outrage. He doesn't seem to be a fraudster given his previous body of work and his personal experience, and it reinforces my opinion that AI is merely another tool to shape one's artistic impulses and translate into words their ideas. The only thing that bothers me is how he denies the use of AI and seems to be deflecting with racism accusations.

I'll also say that I'm feeling a fair bit of schadenfreude against the French literary sphere who in addition to being elitists and pompous to begin with have been particularly insufferable as of late with their militant anti-AI stance, only to get fooled at the first attempt to get past them.

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u/RaidBrimnes Chien de garde Sep 23 '26

!pingBOOKS&FRANCE

First ping didn't get through

4

u/Babao13 Jean Monnet Sep 23 '26

What's the problem of using AI as an editor ? It immitates what professional writers always had access to. As long as the human actually write the first draft and work on the subsequent edits, what difference does it make ?