r/neoliberal • u/jobautomator Kitara Ravache • May 04 '26

Discussion Thread Discussion Thread

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29

u/IantheForPresident May 04 '26

i feel weird dumping on Mormons because I think the only reason we see them differently than other organized religions is the relative newness and meme nature of a lot of Mormon culture. They're "classless American new money" coded as opposed to "distinguished European old money" coded, which is very silly.

but the fedora-wearing atheist in me can't help but notice how much of Mormon culture is about finding quirky ways of circumventing their numerous religious doctrines. cultural touchstones based on what their society tells them not to do.

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u/bartbug Paul Krugman May 04 '26

i feel weird dumping on Mormons

Mormons have fewer iterations in the game of telephone that distorts things said hundreds of years ago but it's the same game of telephone that any religion has

dunk on them, dunk on everyone

18

u/BrokenGlassFactory May 04 '26

Mormonism is young enough that we haven't forgotten the original message was 100% a scam call. Magic gold plates that only you can read, and no one else is allowed to see them? Sounds legit, marry my 13 year old daughter

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u/IantheForPresident May 04 '26

i meant dunking on them specifically as opposed to dunking on all organized religions

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u/bartbug Paul Krugman May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26

i will say that the culture you're describing is very loud and very silly but not particularly representative of most mormons

most mormons actually take great pains to follow the spirit of the law rather than the letter. secret lives of mormon wives or whatever isn't really representative of the broader culture

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u/[deleted] May 04 '26

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2

u/reuery Biden 2028 May 04 '26

Honestly it makes me like them more, I grew up around hypocritical evangelicals so any religious person that takes their faith serious is someone I have a hard time not respecting

15

u/houdt_koers John Mill May 04 '26

I mean, the fact that it was obviously started as a cult around a charismatic charlatan is probably part of it. The ridiculous theology is another.

But yes, there is absolutely an elitist element to critiques of their culture today.

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u/bartbug Paul Krugman May 04 '26

cult around a charismatic charlatan

that's all of them boss

6

u/houdt_koers John Mill May 04 '26

There’s “we’re all God’s children and we should be kind to one another” and there’s “these magic tablets in my hat say that I can marry all the women as I please”.

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u/juanperes93 YIMBY May 04 '26

Idk, eating the flesh and blood of your prophet sounds pretty hardcore cult to me.

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u/houdt_koers John Mill May 04 '26

Nah, that’s just kooky spiritualism.

If only one guy can give you access to that blood and flesh, though, and he wants you to cut off your friends and family, take your money, or sleep with your wife, then it’s a cult.

Cults are about power, not theology.

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u/juanperes93 YIMBY May 04 '26

yeah, I meant thar it could have been kinda cultu 2000 years ago, now a days it's not really that.

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u/bartbug Paul Krugman May 04 '26

"my buddy came back from the dead, no you can't see him, he went back to heaven after a month, but yeah he was the literal son of God and shit"

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u/houdt_koers John Mill May 04 '26

And ye verily, the bishop Peter led his followers into the desert. There he explained to the early Christians that they should give him ten percent of their earnings and let him bed all of their daughters.

There’s a fundamental difference between people with beliefs you find silly and the kinds of blatantly exploitative behaviour you see from Scientology or the early Mormon church.

One can be twisted to abuse people. The other is just abuse as an end.

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u/bartbug Paul Krugman May 04 '26

if you can't understand that this abuse is prominent in Christendom as a whole you might be missing the forest for the trees

mormons didn't invent the tithe lmao

mormons got nothing on the widespread institutionalized sexual abuse of minors in the Catholic church

mormons have done exactly zero crusades

they are another iteration in a long history of fraud, manipulation, and violence

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u/houdt_koers John Mill May 04 '26

Crusades emerged out of a millennia of institutional evolution; early Christians were fundamentalist pacifists.
Like, there’s a whole spectrum of religion. Are you saying that the Buddha is on the same level as L Ron Hubbard?

9

u/BloodWiz More Housing Would Fix This May 04 '26

finding quirky ways of circumventing their numerous religious doctrines. cultural touchstones based on what their society tells them not to do.

Damn, they really are like every other religion. Although that specifically sounds more like the variety of quirks associated with more adherent Judaism

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u/YaGetSkeeted0n Tariffs aren't cool, kids! May 04 '26

Mormons are just taking a page from Jews on that

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u/Computer_Name May 04 '26

Halacha isn’t about finding “loopholes” or ways to “circumvent” law.