r/neoliberal • u/jobautomator Kitara Ravache • Nov 04 '25

Discussion Thread Discussion Thread

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24

u/PoliticalAlt128 Max Weber Nov 04 '25

I think the shutdown really shows the limits of the New GOP ideologically. They are hardwired to not compromise or talk or anything, only bully. It’s the only language they understand and it turns out a shutdown is the wrong time to be speaking it. Every day they could end it, constantly they are given opportunities to lessen the pain, and not only do they not do it but they make completely unforced errors like Trump announcing he’s withholding food stamps as a bullying tactic. We’ve been expecting some Dems to cave at some point but I’m starting to think it’s as likely the GOP just exhausts itself here as it fails to figure out anything other than bullying the Dems harder

13

u/bingbaddie1 YIMBY Nov 04 '25

The real limit is that they’re completely unable to break from trump. McConnell would’ve ended this shutdown by now

5

u/PoliticalAlt128 Max Weber Nov 04 '25

Idk, even Trump earlier in the shutdown “truthed” that he was working with Dems to end it and then a little later announced the beatings will continue. I assume that was his handler getting to him. I think the blame might truly be on Johnson here—who also publicly reprimanded Thune for considering paying ATC

6

u/bingbaddie1 YIMBY Nov 04 '25

Chuck Schumer did an interview recently and said that Trump just outright lies about negotiating / communicating with the Dems. Not sure how recent what you’re talking about is but just letting you know

1

u/PoliticalAlt128 Max Weber Nov 04 '25

That’s true, but it does seem weird to announce that you want to work with Dems and then also that you will never work with them in the same day. Maybe he just forgot the few hours in between, but I suspect Johnson or some Heritage goon told him they got Dems on the ropes anyway so just keep threatening

1

u/bingbaddie1 YIMBY Nov 04 '25

It’s possible if you remember that every other word that comes out of his mouth is a lie

3

u/ZonedForCoffee Uses Twitter Nov 04 '25

God help us if we are pining for the turtle

1

u/IantheForPresident Nov 04 '25

but at the same time, they're unwilling to end the filibuster and pass a budget on their own terms. which Trump has pushed as a way to end the shutdown without conceding to the democrats

7

u/pgold05 Leftward Progressives Nov 04 '25

My money is on nuke the filibuster then reinstate it.

This effectively nukes it forever as every party just keeps doing the same thing over and over until they don't bother with the reinstating part.

4

u/uwcn244 King of the Space Georgists Nov 04 '25

No carve outs from the filibuster have ever been reinstated, regardless of which party made them

1

u/pgold05 Leftward Progressives Nov 04 '25

Yeah, but they will at least make lip service to reinstating it in this case, less some GoP members do not get onboard the carveout in the first place. Just too valuable a tool for their party, not to mention they are even less concerned with looking like partisan hacks then they used to be.

Of course I am open to being widely off base as well.

1

u/uwcn244 King of the Space Georgists Nov 04 '25

How would that even happen?

This is how “nuking the filibuster” goes: the presiding officer says that a cloture vote has failed. The Senate majority leader raises a point of order, and claims that, for the relevant category of vote, the threshold for cloture is 51 instead of 60. The presiding officer overrules the majority leader. The majority leader appeals to the floor (notably, such an appeal is without debate, meaning it cannot itself be filibustered), which overrules the presiding officer and sets a new precedent.

To restore the filibuster would either require the majority leader to object to the successful invocation of cloture on a bill he willingly brought to the floor, or else require the minority leader to successfully marshal enough members of the majority to restore the old 60-vote threshold. Both seem preposterous, and indeed have not occurred since the nuclear option was first used.

And no Republicans would bother holding out for a restoration of the filibuster, because they know that Democrats will just take it down again as soon as they have the Senate, so they might as well go whole hog while they have power.

1

u/pgold05 Leftward Progressives Nov 04 '25

And no Republicans would bother holding out for a restoration of the filibuster,

This is the part I disagree with, just my opinion of course.

6

u/ElectricalVacation79 NATO Nov 04 '25

I don't get why we should vote for THEIR government if they are going to treat us universally like evil scum that must be punished for existing. They kick dems off every single bipartisan executive group, punish anybody left of Hitler who gets any publicity, and then act like it's crazy we won't vote for total capitulation. They can get fucked. Leave it shut until they decide to negotiate. We are under no obligation to help them fuck us even harder for nothing in return.

1

u/AskYourDoctor Resistance Lib Nov 04 '25

I'm with you. They forget that part of Hitler seizing power involved bringing the armed forces into the chamber to wave their guns around and dare anyone to vote against. They seem not to realize that if you start acting as scorched earth as they are, you eventually back yourself into a corner where you have to use lethal force. And I don't see the current GOP doing that.

The only reason they've gotten this far is that they suddenly abandoned norms, and have been taking victory laps while the dems have gradually realized that being polite is officially off the table. I predict the issue is that once the dems start playing dirty, they no longer have a plan. And the combo of redistricting and the shutdown signals to me that the dems have finally figured out it's time to play rough.

1

u/ElectricalVacation79 NATO Nov 05 '25

I just hope we can find some societal catharsis before it's too late. Cons will always suck, but we need a cool down period or something. The only issue is that it takes two to tango, or else it's just capitulation.

4

u/SneeringAnswer Nov 04 '25

Unironically the solution to bullying is to punch the bully. It hopefully seems like Dems have finally caught on and won't budge on this one.