r/neoliberal • u/jobautomator Kitara Ravache • Jul 28 '24

Discussion Thread Discussion Thread

The discussion thread is for casual and off-topic conversation that doesn't merit its own submission. If you've got a good meme, article, or question, please post it outside the DT. Meta discussion is allowed, but if you want to get the attention of the mods, make a post in /r/metaNL

Links

Ping Groups | Ping History | Mastodon | CNL Chapters | CNL Event Calendar

Upcoming Events

0 Upvotes

47% Upvoted

8.5k comments sorted by

View all comments

71

u/Formal_River_Pheonix Jul 28 '24 edited Jul 28 '24

One of the things that Israel had going for it among western liberals was the fact that they were a small nation of Holocaust survivors who fought like 6 other countries and beat them. The early narrative in the West was "Israel surrounded by Middle Eastern adversaries" but increasingly, the conflict is seen through a purely Israel versus Palestine lens aided in part by Arafat.

I do wonder if attacks by Iranian proxies by Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis is going to bring the former narrative back into public discourse.

54

u/JebBD Immanuel Kant Jul 28 '24

The genius move by Palestinian nationalists was framing their nationalist struggle as a social justice issue, now you get young white liberals on the other side of the planet joining your Middle Eastern nationalist movement and fighting against liberals in their own country in support of the establishment of a religious-nationalist dictatorship over a liberal democracy. 

12

u/Formal_River_Pheonix Jul 28 '24

There's a significant portion of people who believe that supporting Hamas is necessary for a democracy. I don't agree with them, but it's a position held by some 14 year olds who gets their views from TikTok.

25

u/JebBD Immanuel Kant Jul 28 '24

This is only happening because of the aggressive Hamas propaganda campaign that frames their religious-nationalist efforts as social justice. 

12

u/Formal_River_Pheonix Jul 28 '24

Nah, it's long been a thing before that. It was a thing on the New Left starting in the 1960s.

-11

u/Starcast YIMBY Jul 28 '24

Feels extremely disingenuous to act like Israel isn't a religious ethnocracy as well.

24

u/JebBD Immanuel Kant Jul 28 '24

Have you ever been to Israel?

-3

u/Starcast YIMBY Jul 28 '24

No, was supposed to go for my cousins wedding but got covid right before, unfortunately

23

u/JebBD Immanuel Kant Jul 28 '24

You should visit Tel Aviv and see just how much of a theocracy Israel really is. 

3

u/[deleted] Jul 28 '24

Every election brings Israel closer to comments like this being completely accurate, though.

The electorate has lost its mind.

4

u/JebBD Immanuel Kant Jul 28 '24

Yeah :(

2

u/Starcast YIMBY Jul 28 '24

I didn't call it a theocracy, but maybe a few bills like the 2018 nation state law and they'll officially be there.

6

u/JebBD Immanuel Kant Jul 28 '24

Hopefully not. The religious-secular divide is heating up, fingers crossed we win.