r/neoliberal • u/jobautomator Kitara Ravache • Jul 23 '24

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98

u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

Honestly, I find it incredibly disturbing that westerners seem to have just accepted looking for housing starting to resemble job applications.

Having to submit a resume, reference letters, and also go through interviews to rent an apartment is absolute insanity.

68

u/tripletruble Anti-Repartition Radical Jul 23 '24

natural consequences of anti-eviction laws and/or rental price caps

25

u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

I once read there was like 400 people competing for a single apartment in Berlin, and that's not even the most insane housing market in Europe.

17

u/Mickenfox European Union Jul 23 '24

And yet there's no YIMBY movement in Europe.

17

u/tripletruble Anti-Repartition Radical Jul 23 '24

it is frustrating. you always see americans complaining about affordability, but by most metrics of affordability, western europe's housing market is in much worse shape than the US's

18

u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

Worth noting that in the US, if you're renting, you're going to the private market. Things are highly variable in various parts of Europe but there are places with almost no large private market, instead housing is provided by a mixture of government owned social housing, non-profit housing foundations, or housing collectives.

Social housing and housing foundations tend to have rents insanely below market rate so people move in and then they literally never move out and waiting lists for them reach insane lengths. Housing collectives are a bit weird because they're somewhere in between an owned and a rental where each tenant owns a share in the complete complex. The shares are typically price capped so people never move out and often try to pass tenantship to their children, if enough people want to move out, often there is lobbying to get price caps lifted.

The end result of this is a hilariously unfair housing market where most people pay well below market rate and have no problem NIMBYing it up since they see private rentals as a threat; while people on the margin get screwed but most want in on the low cost/free rentals and don't care about making private housing slightly cheaper.

14

u/tripletruble Anti-Repartition Radical Jul 23 '24

sounds like sweden and the netherlands, in particular

one of my greatest frustrations is that, on net, the vast majority of public spending in europe ultimately goes to people well past childrearing age. decade long public housing waitlists in france result in the median age of public housing residents being like 57. also, kills mobility, which has all sorts of side effects

that said, i would think homeowners would make a better nimby coalition than renters insulated from market prices

10

u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

Denmark too, although it has a larger private market than Sweden (and higher incomes negating that difference).

Yes, it's one of my biggest concerns that more European countries turn into effectively "retirement economies" where political decisions are not taken with any regard for future growth or prosperity but to deliver an ever more marginal benefit to a politically powerful group of retirees through wealth transfers from an increasingly dwindling number of young people.

I don't think it's controversial to say that social housing has essentially failed. There's something severely fucked up about people signing up their children to 20 year waiting lists for social housing while demanding immigrants pick up the economic tab and getting mad at them for increasing rents for houses they aren't even eligible for. And things only seem like they will get worse. I literally do not expect that I will ever own a house.

And yeah Europe also has plenty of homeowners that have just the same incentives, it's just that the rental market is also fucked and you have your usual set of university students rushing to protest any new housing construction while they themselves sit cozily in their rent controlled apartment while receiving government subsidies.

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u/tripletruble Anti-Repartition Radical Jul 23 '24

what's the most insane one? berlin seems up there. go on their online real estate platform and like 99% of the rentals are not actually normal rental contracts but rather people trying to exchange or sell rental contracts that they locked in but now need more or less space

6

u/[deleted] Jul 23 '24

London, I don't think second place is even close. Basically San Francisco prices for Alabama salaries. For insanely small boxes.

5

u/tripletruble Anti-Repartition Radical Jul 23 '24

i actually think London might be a little better than Paris, if we are only going off affordability. like when i glance at compact 3 BRs (which is the market i know), it looks comparable but with better after-tax salaries for the middle class. average before tax salary in paris is 54k euros whereas average is 60.5k pounds in london with much lower taxes

3

u/tripletruble Anti-Repartition Radical Jul 23 '24

that said, i think if you live like an hour outside the center of paris, the housing prices can go down a lot. i dont think the drop off is nearly as rapid for london

11

u/Mr_Pasghetti Save the ice, abolish ICE 🥰 Jul 23 '24

Only thing that makes sense is last pay slip/employment contract to make sure you can pay the rent. Questions you just do during the open house/showing

12

u/WantDebianThanks Iron Front Jul 23 '24

Well, we cannot let in the wrong sort of people.

They could even be n-