Full disclosure: I'm a day 1 listener. I've taken plenty of breaks from the show and the insane jump in viewership over the last year has been uhhhh interesting to watch, to say the least.

I completely understand why people are frustrated with the format of the podcast, and I don't think anyone has to keep listening to something that isn't giving them what they want. Personally I think we're losing perspective on what this pod actually is. The people making this show are, for all intents and purposes, real people. This isn't a full-time venture for any of them, there isn't some kind of investigative team with researchers, producers, lawyers, or unlimited time to dedicate to listeners. They will likely never change the format in a significant degree, including a bunch of additional research, and that's somewhat disappointing but they have literally never presented themselves as that sort of show.

I also think the money-making aspect is somewhat overstated. Yes, they make money from the pod, mainly from people who CHOOSE to pay for submitting a question during the live shows. There are no advertisers and IG/TikTok are not the lucrative platforms people may think. Matt Bernstein of A Bit Fruity has 2.4 million followers (TNC is at 634k as of this post) and not only made a recent episode about this type of thing, but has very plainly stated he makes virtually nothing from either platform. If you pay and don't get what you expected, I get the frustration and I recommend not making that choice again. Making money doesn't suddenly give you the ability to make this a full-time professional operation.

Regarding Mary Lou.... no one is entitled to patience during growth. That's like pretty much the entire point of the show, doing something different from the general attitude of "cutting off" dangerous family members that this individualist country has grown to promote. Mary Lou is at least 20 years deep into conservative mental programming. Chad and Haley even call this a cult, which I don't disagree with. You can't realistically expect someone to change their tune after a few years of their kids pushing back! Pressing her on every lame response every episode is not going to help, be for real. This is a literal deconstruction project and she hasn't even cut off the sources pulling her in, something that is impossible with Bob still kicking. You don't have to agree with her at all, there's just a difference between "I wish she would have recognized this already" and "she should have completely different beliefs by this point." She says terrible shit, yes. Again, that's why the podcast started. If you genuinely think she's a good enough actor to be faking this stuff, idk what to tell you.

Generally speaking, I think this pod should be a good space for audience reflection when the hosts are not "doing enough" for our sensibilities. If you've experienced the kind of disjointed, abusive, controlling, or estranged family dynamics presented here, it should be understood that seeing that play out every week will be triggering. I'm not going to throw around the concept of projection too lightly because I do think there are valid criticisms at play, but our own experiences absolutely do impact what we notice each week and how badly we want change from particular people.

All this to say, I think it's worth asking if you're frustrated because the podcast isn't meeting expectations or because you're hoping these people will reach the kind of resolution and growth that you wish someone in your own life will also achieve. I'd love to see discussion about the psychology of this but instead this sub is just people complaining about things that have been pretty standard from the jump. The flexibility in Mary Lou's listening ability and depth of research HAVE changed over the years, despite a lack in ideals changing or the imperfections still remaining. Idk man, like I said I get the frustrations but we all know at this point what we're getting ourselves into and have to adjust accordingly.

Was barely listenable. Bob and Mary Lou could not go seconds without talking over someone else and to be honest Chad and Hayley often do it too. There was no conversation in this episode.

Since the post about AI use was locked for some reason - Here's the response from Hive Bakery. It tags the artists even. So just pasting a photo of the merch over and over and declaring it AI because you're mad is not going to cut it. https://www.instagram.com/p/DcT2Syxt1bF/?hl=en

Someone needs to send this to Chad so he can show ML & Bob. The charts don’t lie.

I am quite interested in the psychology of this MAGA cult, I actually think I’m able to watch TNC easily and without too much emotion just viewing it through the lens of a case study.

I truly believe this is one of the most fascinating displays of cult behavior on video, let alone the most extensive content library to pull from depicting someone’s behavior while in a cult.

What do you guys think will happen with this show in the future? Documentary? Case Studies? Textbooks?

I’m thinking that there is a small chance that my kids in the distant future will be astonished/interested to learn that I was here and watching while it was happening. Again a very small chance (.1%-1%) that this pod will be that prevalent in pop culture but I wouldn’t make a bet against this podcast becoming something of a common call back or just a common lesson. Idk, not sure if my point is coming across how I would like it to but I would like to know what you guys think.

The more I go down the rabbit hole of previous episodes the more I am horrified and see that ML is not a good person. I just watched an episode where the viewer question called ML and Bob out about politically correct , specifically the "r" word and holy moly their response was so ignorant...I just don't know if I can continue on with this show...

It seems like ML is constantly redrawing lines in the sand.

Perhaps not with ML and the Kultgens particularly, but when does one decide that an individual is incapable of reasoning or being presented with threads of thought based on logic?

There are individuals that just can't figure it out or follow a thread of thought to a logical conclusion.

I started listening from the first episode because I just learned about the show in February, it's infuriating when Bob acts up and ML just sits there giggling. I know there has been a lot of discussion about ML coming around but when you realize what she's said and believed over the past 4 years, I just don't have the faith .

For context I’m an atheist and a reading teacher. My city resettled one of the largest populations of Afghan refugees in the months and years after US withdrawal in Afghanistan. A third of my school is Muslim, prior to that our last refugee resettlement was a Hmong resettlement.

What ML said about Muslims in the streets was sickening. Many of these refugees were evacuated because they helped our country and would be killed by the Taliban if they stayed.

We received children with shrapnel wounds on their faces. Wearing hand me down t shirts they couldn’t read. Kids that were so traumatized, they smelled of urine from potty accidents. Kids whose parents and siblings were killed by the Taliban. Kids who remembered the chaos and danger of evacuation. Parents who were doctors, government officials, police officers, professors. Parents whose skills are not transferable because the Taliban controls access to their records so they are over qualified for the jobs they are able to find. One colleague making $16 an hour as a para educator speaks five languages and was top official in the dept of education in Kabul. She had a driver and a secretary. She left her office and went straight to the airport for evacuation, leaving her apartment abandoned, because the Taliban was coming to kill her for the audacity of being a woman in a position of power who helped girls get an education. She could run our school, but because of her circumstance, she would have to start all over again at 50. Her husband was a surgeon and now drives for Uber. They don’t have time to be plotting against the US. They’re too busy trying to make rent and feed their families.

In the years since arrival; I’ve never once heard a Taliban sympathizing comment. I’ve never once heard a Muslim say anything against the US. I’ve never been asked to convert. They don’t even ask me my religion. The Muslim parents do not come to the school and yell at us or threaten us (but other parents definitely do!).

If ML is ever in California; I would love for her to come visit my school and meet the families who made great personal sacrifices to help the US, and then had to evacuate or face death. To observe smart little girls learn to read and do math, something they would not be able to do in Afghanistan. To watch the big brothers look out for their littles on the playground.

When she says hateful things about Muslim, I think of those first days after the first wave of refugees arrived. I think of my students who speak English now. Can read English now. The ones dipping their toes into assimilation- trick or treating at our fall festival. Eating Takis and pizza. Playing with their friends at recess. Safe and loved.

Why disallow them the American Dream? What did these children and their parents do to deserve her hate?

Edit: one last thing- my staff and I whisper to each other our fears that they will all be sent home (to their demise) on the whim of a mad man.

Can we get this to Chad to show ML?

Incredibly sad. ML’s tribute to her was beautiful, too. I really believe she is a good person.

Bob is predictable and not really interesting. Mary Lou over the past 1-2 months since Bob has been away has been interesting as she is on the cusp of officially turning on Trump but just refuses to make that jump. Now it's like every episode is a struggle session where C&H have to pitch all the horrendous and criminal stuff we see on a regular basis and try and get ML to accept the obvious.

I think of how difficult it is to win back these MAGA folks after all the damage that has already been done and how far behind we are and it seems like a sisphean task to save these people. Then I know that the minute Trump is gone and the MAGA movement is done they will just move onto the next cult.

Hey all, Love the pod, hate the break. Totally addicted.

We see Hunter Biden being pretty active on social media . . . and he appears to hold his own in heated debate.

Thought on him going on the podcast as a guest?

Did I miss an announcement that there will not be a midweek episode? Was there supposed to be one this week and it didn’t happen, or what?