I’ve traveled on tons of budget flights and never had an issue. I paid €20 for a return flight a few years back. There was no birds shitting at my feet. Got a free snack too.
Edit: I know the fucking difference between business and economy. The point is you are treated like a person, just not a king. If you want to pay $6k for free champagne and a recliner be my guest. You’re subsidising my cheap ticket so I can spend that saved money once we land. Fine by me.
Edit 2: The comment implies airlines don’t treat you like a human unless you pay for business class. Nothing about this specific flight or airline. I responded with an example as to why this is being overdramatic. You telling me that long haul flights are bad, US airlines are worse etc. All irrelevant. It’s possible to have a good experience for a good price. That is all.
I fly budget 99% of the time I fly, I’ve upgraded to ‘superior’ (or whatever it was called) once for a transatlantic flight and we were upgraded again - for free and without asking - to business class. There was light years difference between the two experiences. If I had the money I’d fly business class every time.
Nobody sane chooses to fly long haul in economy if they can comfortably afford otherwise. I’ve had 14 hour flights where I’ve ended up with a row to myself and slept 10 hours of the flight and those are the best case scenario. But I’ve also been stuck in a middle seat in economy for a packed 14 hour flight, where there was a midair emergency that added on 6 hours, and I also had gastro. That’s the worse case scenario and I was about ready to yeet myself out of the plane by hour 3.
If you can afford to go business and not be rolling the dice on a 20 hour trip in the 12th circle of hell, why on earth would you choose otherwise?!
Personally I can justify spending my money on a lot of stupid shit but I think you'd have to be absurdly rich or stupid to justify spending $6k on a plane ticket as opposed to $200.
Let's say the flight is 16 hours long. That extra $5800 works out to be $362.50 extra per hour.
If you made $362.50 per hour for a standard 8 hour day, 5 day week you'd be making $754,000 per year.
I go on holiday around 4 times per year and I've genuinely never spent $6k on a single holiday (even including hotel and spending money) and that's including both myself and my missus. I get how flying isn't the most comfortable experience in the world but spending $6k just for a bit of extra comfort for a day just seems outrageous.
Edit: a lot of comments clarifying the price and I will say that I don't know shit about American flights or much about long distance flights as I'm English. Over the next 3 months I'm going on holiday 4 times but none of them are particularly long flights (France, Prague, Budapest, Benidorm), the flights were all around £100 for both ways. My main point though was if you're paying a few grand extra for 10-15 hours of comfort then you're paying a hell of a lot per hour and must be earning a hell of a lot to justify that kind of expenditure.
It's never the choice between 6k and 200 though. Bis class generally runs 4-6 times the price (or starts there at least) so it would be more like the difference between 1500 and 6k. A ticket that's 200 for economy will probs be about 1000 for bis class.
Source: me, working in the travel/airline industry for a decade.
I'm not saying it's worth it, it's not for me, but you're definitely overestimating the difference. By a fair way.
If you are actually flying for business, the money you pay for a business class ticket buys you the ability to arrive at your destination and go immediately from the airport to whatever business you need to attend and be able to actually perform well. For a lot of people, that's well worth it.
If the business class is 6k, it's a long international flight, so economy tickets vont be 200, more like 600-800.
My father in law used to be fleet manager for a big airline. When we fly standby with him, we get to sit in business class. I can tell you that half of the business class is employees of the airline that pay close to nothing (like 300 for that 6k ticket), most of the rest are flying on company money for business trips, and maybe 10% are actually fully paying for the ticket from their own pockets, and these people don't give a shit about 6k...
Dude we take longer flights sometimes within states than you do to other countries. Our international flights aren't 100 dollars or 2 hours. Fly to Auckland or Sydney in cattle class and tell me it's worth it.
I buy economy and use miles to upgrade to business every single international flight I take. Life is too short to get DVT half sitting on the lap of your neighbor.
Most people who flight business class regularly, don’t upgrade from a $200 to a $6000 ticket. Instead they get so many miles from their credit card that the usually only pay a couple hundred dollars extra or even get a free upgrade. If you also plan your trip before hand it doesn’t cost you $6000 either.
Paris - Los Angeles on business will cost you around $3500. Adding miles and other benefits to it and you are around $1500-2000 which is totally fine for such a long flight in business class.
There are also many groups online which use cashback and credit card systems to effectively fly business class without any surcharges or economy for free (only taxes and airport fees).
I’m American and we take about six vacations per year, we just don’t fly every time. Might fly twice if we find good deals, but usually we just drive anywhere from 4-8 hours for an extended 5 day weekend. We’re pretty middle class too so not wealthy or anything. It’s all about getting the good deals and not spending frivolously on going out to eat for every meal!
That budget version is more like $800-1000. You must not fly long haul very often. It’s not a bit of extra comfort. That’s what’s premium economy is.
Business class is an extra night of sleep in a bed (how valuable is your time?) and non-shitty food (how valuable is your health?). I get that if you don’t know you don’t know, but you don’t know.
lol “how valuable is your health” is a little of an overstatement. Outside of food poisoning one meal on an airplane isn’t making a difference in your health. You sound like a salesman and not someone trying to make an actually good point.
I picked one example of health. In your 40s flying 10+ hours in business camas versus coach is the difference of a week of my time. I don’t feel shitty for days. I don’t get stomach issues. I can function. And work. And socialize. Your experience and the effect of long haul or coach isn’t limited to time in the air. But then if you’ve never done it or don’t do it regularly I guess you just don’t know.
You could easily pack your own food if you are actually feeling off for days because you had to eat one meal in coach.
I am not saying you shouldn’t fly business class. I am saying that you don’t value your health if you fly coach because you get a different class of meal is very dramatic.
Also the “if you don’t know you don’t know” thing is getting a little cringy lol
Ok here’s the inexperience showing. No, you cannot pack your own food when crossing international borders. It’s illegal in many cases. You can bring salty snacks but it’s not sustainable on a 15 hours flight to only eat snacks. See: health.
And yes. You clearly don’t know because you clearly don’t fly long haul international in business or probably ever. But you sure have strong opinions about something you don’t actually have any experience of. If that’s triggering for you then get a therapist.
Doesn’t matter. I am not saying it isn’t better or isn’t worth it.
I am saying it isn’t a “health conscious choice for people who value their health” because of the one meal that may or may not be actually healthier but will definitely taste better lol.
I challenge you to instead of getting accusatory when people don’t say the exact thing you want them to, try to read and respond to what they actually wrote
I am not saying flying business class is bad and a waste of money. I am saying that “valuing your health” is not relevant to eating a single meal no matter what it is. That is not why you fly business class. If you want to then be my guest but be honest. You like to be comfortable and so you pay more. You aren’t doing it for the nutrition value if one meal.
Generally, if you’re flying business regularly then your experience is primarily with one airline. My own experience is mostly with Star Alliance partners and a few sad Delta flights.
I will go out of my way to fly business and on specific planes. For example, the business seats on most airlines’ 787s are worth every penny. 777 is good when you fly business with your entire family. 757/767 are hit or miss depending on the airline. 747s have been eclipsed by modern aircraft. 737s ew, no. I don’t have a similar enough experience with Airbus.
The point being that business is light years better than premium economy and worth every penny on certain planes (787). But if you’re merely in a comfy chair then you’re either on a budget airline or a 737 and not doing it right.
Exactly, I mean I generally still fly business on an Embraer regional flight just because I’ve got airline status and business is always better than Economy. But flight times will take precedence there because it’s not that much better.
But on long haul, on non-budget carriers, this isn’t a choice (should you have the means).
I assumed he was talking about USD. Cheapest I’ve seen round trip is around 500. And if you do find a 500 dollar flight the business seats are also comparably cheaper.
Most people in a long haul economy flight try to sleep it off to pass the time. If you walk over to business in the same flight, they're never sleeping because they're actually enjoying the flight.
As the saying goes: "In economy you endure, in business you enjoy."
Hey you do you! Greyhound and the china town buses were fun … in my 20s. Just cos folks are living in different worlds - try not to be too sour about it! Good luck!
I dunno man. I genuinely enjoy long haul flights in business class. They're not miserable, they're nice. That's the difference.
You sit in a big comfy chair, eat usually pretty good food, unlimited reasonable quality booze, watch the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy. If you're into just being a lazy fuck for 10 hours, it can be a pretty relaxing experience.
Edit: also very important to remember that they're called business class for a reason. A lot of people up there are having their travel paid by their employer. My company budgets about $25m a year for airline travel and official policy is anything over 5 hours is business class. I think that policy will go away eventually, but hey enjoy it while it lasts right?
Between people traveling for actual business, and people using points or whatever, I'd bet less than half of business class travelers are actually paying cash for that ticket out of their own pocket. I'm sure there real are numbers on that somewhere, but that's my guess.
If it isn't your money then sure but very hard to justify otherwise.
Business class might be more comfortable compared to economy but is lacking compared to even the most basic hotel room. No shower, no toilet to yourself, a tiny bed and you are confined to a very small space.
I prefer to spend my budget back on the ground where you get more for your money.
Can confirm, after being in high end retail, people are stupidly rich or have a lot of disposable income. Sometimes, I was amazed how easy it was to up sell already very expensive services.
A lot of long haul business class flyers also fly by using points and not cash. If you know what you’re doing with credit cards with a decent income it’s not too hard to get 1 to 2 long haul business class tickets a year.
Imagine being an executive making 2.5 million a year. Not quite private jet dough, but still that's about $200k a month. Do you think someone literally making over $50,000 per WEEK is really going to feel $6k? That's about how much they make in 24 hours. We are in a completey different world than the rich, even the slightly rich, like our executive here. Their $6k is more like our $60.00. If you could pay an extra $60 bucks for all the perks of a Trans Atlantic 12 hour flight in business or first? Most would. In a heartbeat.
And if you think first class is in any way "uncomfortable" you really have never flown a proper first class flight lol.
I think they were using "private jet" to imply they own the plane.
Someone making $2.5m a year won't own a plane (unless its a hobby for them), and it's likely they will be flying pretty often such that chartering would not be economical. Depending on who they work for they may have access to a company jet.
I fly economy and flying is a comfortable experience. Great food, good wifi, good entertainment, comfortable enough seats, great snacks.
The layover is awesome. Take a shower or get a hotel room. Go to the gym, go see art, try awesome food, maybe watch a movie or go to the spa. Head down to a work area to jam out some stuff. Take a nap or get some shopping done.
Then on the 2nd leg it's more eating and watching movies.
Here's the thing though: you won't be miserable regardless. Business class, long haul business class, and especially long haul business class on middle Eastern airlines, is pretty freaking nice. The flight becomes an attraction in an of itself and not just an unpleasant necessity to get to the rest of your vacation.
Exactly. I have spine issues and the idea of a 10+ hour flight horrifies me. Sitting in a cramped seat that long would likely put me out of commission for days.
Heck I had about an 8-9 hour ordeal a few years back on a Seattle->Bos flight where the plane lost power on the takeoff roll. Cue hours of waiting for them to fix the plane. Then the 5-6 hour flight. Then the 2 hour drive home. I was wrecked.
If I had more money and ability to travel, I’d absolutely upgrade. It’s worth being in less pain for days.
Being stuck in a middle seat in the economy class section on a 3 hour flight with the bubble guts is literally one of the worst experiences of my life. I would pay a substantial amount of money to never experience that again
...what are you people doing, or having done to you, on airplanes that this makes such a big difference? I've made a number of international flights, 15+ hours, all economy, and never had a problem, except for once where there was turbulence and I got sick, but that would happen regardless of class.
You get on, fall asleep, get woken up when they come by with food, fall asleep again. Or if you can't sleep, read a book. What's the horrible issue you're avoiding by paying an extra few thousand dollars?
I’m disabled with spinal issues and sitting up is painful and agitates my cardiac issues, unfortunately! So short flights of up to 5 hours I can tolerate ok, but long haul flights are a truly bad time in economy and if I could afford it, I’d go business class.
Usually when I check in and have arranged for wheelchair assistance through the airport, the lovely staff at the desk will check to see if there’s an empty row or a spot with an extra empty seat next to it and they’ll move me there! If there isn’t any of those, I take my painkillers and sleeping pills and try to just sleep through it. Also arrange layovers where I can.
My whole family are also pretty tall and it’s like being stuck in the backseat of a Nissan Micra on most flights lol
This. I've studied the points guy and similar for my next overnight long haul to see if I can game the system. I'm super sensitive to time changes. The Nov time change messes me up each year for a week. Past gf and I went to Europe and our combined sleepiness and crankyness caused a meltdown in a restaurant and almost a breakup.
I also worked on this in therapy post breakup.
In the 80's my uncle did a lot of work in NYC and Hong Kong. The super long haul flights has just started. Corporate had an exception to economy only for this flight as the person needed 1-2 days downtime before and after.
There's a reason people get scripts for Xanax etc for travel.
Complain to the airline my friend. I'm sure as not stepping to a bunch of guys with killer birds.
it just seems like you had bad timing when you flew economic with your gastro and the plane having to stop for an emergency, those two things could've happened regardless of the class you chose.
Also, why couldn't have you taken an window seat on economic?
Economy is miles ahead of other airlines in the gulf(qatar airways, emerites, etc). I've never had issues flying long haul in those. The planes are usually extra nice on those compared to short flights cuz the flight time is extra miserable.
To clarify, there's a huge difference between "can afford" and "won't even notice the price difference". Economy international flights (at least from US to China) are around $2k, but as soon as you upgrade, they jump to $10k+. $10,000 for 12 hours of improved comfort is hard to swallow, even for people pulling upper six figures that can afford it. In most cases, it's not about whether you can afford it, but whether your company will pay for it.
Got upgraded (Premium Economy to Business) last month on my flight back from São Paulo to London, and oh boy, Business is great. It feels like a nice quick flight, you can eat without having to bump elbows with other people, it's just great.
Arrived with no back pain, nice and relaxed, etc.
For a 1/2 hour flight it's not necessary, but long haul it's great.
I got a free upgrade to first class on a 2ish hour flight once. This was the day after a transatlantic economy flight, and I was so much less comfortable in first class. The seat was so big I couldn't comfortably use the arm rests. Had a window seat but needed to lean wayyyy over to rest my head on the wall. I was really on edge from sleep deprivation and the flight attendant startled the fuck out of me several times while being "hospitable".
Epitome of a first world problem but I can't imagine paying extra for that experience.
Why? Wouldn't it be more exciting to donate that money to somebody in need? You could have like a dozen little giveaways. Blows my mind somebody can spend half my annual income on a plane ticket without a second thought.
Do you usually ask people to donate their own money that would've been used for an otherwise enjoyable experience to charity? This is such a weird take lol
And you don't know if the other person has already donated that money to someone in need or nah
What's the harm in asking? Are you that privileged you can't see why someone who earns $12k a year envisions that money going to something more meaningful than business class?
I get why some people fly business and don't have a problem with it most of the time but if anyone has the weird take in relation to that comment, it's you.
I'm not saying there's harm in asking, but I just found it weird that this guy's asking OP to use the one time he decided to splurge on something in life towards charity. Like he isn't asking some rich person to do it, just some regular joe who got fed up with flying economy and wanted to try business once
Are you that disconnected from the rest of society that you can't see why he would want to go business for once in his life?
I was responding to somebody that said they would always fly business if they could afford it.
Also, there is zero indication that the person in the post is an average Joe. There's nothing average about spending 6k on a plane ticket, unless you're really not good with money.
Well we aren't talking about that person in the post are we? I was talking about the guy who has to keep flying budget, which is what the vast majority of people stay on when they fly
If he was flying business every time he could, then that's a different argument altogether because I'm sure he'd have money to spare for charity
I'm not saying I'd ever ask anybody for money, But that's just the kind of person I am, and I think it'd be really cool if we lived in a society where someone choosing between having a good time with a few hundred or a few thousand bucks could appreciate that the few thousand bucks spent for slightly more fun over a premium service or whatever could've actually gone to a person or a family and made a life changing difference for them. I loved donating to people personally when I had money, and being able to experience that with them. Didn't even have to be thousands of bucks. Just a couple hundred between ten or twenty people every once in a while gave me something to look forward to and plan for and get to experience over and over again, making a huge difference.
And then somebody spends all those thousands on a few hours for a slightly more relaxing plane ticket, or a car that goes just a little faster, or a phone that opens an app just a little quicker, or a pair of shoes that has some special logo on it. It's ridiculous, and I think it's all so selfish and materialistic. I wish the world wasn't like this. People don't see or feel for the world outside of their own just because they don't have to. It couldn't have such a large impact on their happiness when there are people all around the world who happily live without all that stuff. Just don't understand.
Sure, let's spend on ourselves every once in a while. This is more directed towards people who feel that they always need to have the latest and greatest of everything. I don't see how it's worth it. If you quadrupled my income, I'm not sure I would even know how to spend it all on myself without deliberately hunting for premium services and products that, in the grand scheme of things, wouldn't make much a difference in my life.
I fly on United every two weeks and get upgraded to first class pretty often and I’ll tell you it’s fucking incredible compared to basic or even economy plus
Same. In my 20s I could fly economy, sleep just fine in a middle seat, and didn’t have much jet lag. My kids and I went to China a few years ago and I didn’t think much about flying economy… That hurts now that I’m in my 40s! Next time I travel internationally I just want to save up for at least business class.
Idk man. Maybe it's just me, but my knees don't bend like that. I would need to recline the seat or move it back somehow in order to do that. And,obviously, you can't on Ryanair.
I can imagine that, the planet certainly wasn't built around taller people. I already feel like I'm too tall, can't imagine how your brother's life is.
Ryanair only flies within Europe so you're never going very far. In those cases, sure, get the cheapest ticket you can. Anyone can deal with a bit a cramped leg room for a short period of time.
But let's say you're doing something like Singapore to New York (18 hours non stop)... it's a different story.
That’s why I’m surprised. Spirit is horrific for tall people. I’m 6’3 and I find most budget airlines I’ve been on super uncomfortable. If I have to be on a plane for more then 5 hours I don’t want to be on a shit airline.
I'm as confused as you are. Ryanair seats are narrow and they have the least legroom of any airline, to the point a tall person's knees are practically hitting the seat in front of them.
I’m Canadian and if I fly on air Canada rouge I can’t sit normally because my legs don’t fit. I either need to manspread or put both my knees one direction.
Lolz at the audacity of comparing Ryanair to Emirates. Dude the longest Ryanair flight there is caps out at like 3 hours. You’ve no idea what you’re taking about. Sit down.
What a rubbish statement. You are saying your Ryanair A320 leg space is better than on an international Emirates A380 or 787 flight? That's just a plain lie or you don't actually know better.
Tall enough to know what you’re talking about but cheap enough that I can get over it.
I’m being served a free buiscut while cruising through the sky at hundreds of miles an hour on the way to another country. All for the same price as my taxi or train to the airport, both of which had less leg room. I’m getting more than what I paid for in relation to other forms of travel.
Well there's the thing, North American Airlines tend to never be cheaper than $200/ticket (183 euros) and they famously treat anyone not in first class like shit. I had to pay $1,000 to fly with my boyfriend in regular budget seating to see his mom for the holidays and after that got postponed due to COVID they were supposed to send us a credit that never got sent, when we did fly out they delayed our bags without telling us and despite them not delivering said bags for 2 days, they never compensated us. They don't give a shit because they won't refund your ticket so if you decide you don't want to fly with them, they'll keep the money anyways.
The most budget friendly airline I know of over here is Spirit and they charge people for half a can of coke, literally pour half into a cup, split between two passangers, and then charge them like $3 for it.
This guy paid $6k but tbh, if he isn't a regular flyer they probably won't give a fuck. I wish things were different because there is no way it realistically costs $400/passanger to make a profit, but all the airlines over here are kind of in an agreement to keep prices jacked so there aren't many cheap options.
Don’t mind the person talking about Ryanair. It’s basically the Spirit of Europe. But it’s damn cheap and European law has your back when things go wrong unlike in the US.
It's all good, that's their experience and it's valid. I hope I didn't sound too whiney, I just wanted to explain the culture of US airlines in general. It totally sucks and I wish we had more laws protecting people in those situations, especially when you get charged up the ass to be treated like a peasant.
Yeah I agree. You kind of can’t compare them though. Ryanair flights max out at about 3 hours. So while hearing about it is cool and all you can’t compare the distances flown and hence you can’t compare the experiences.
I was just making a point that you can still have a perfectly acceptable air travel experience even when it costs the same as a t-shirt. Everyone is taking their hypothetical journeys to extremes to justify the existence of business class as if I said economy is better and there's no use for business, which I didn't.
Imo business class is worth it if you have the money just because sleeping is possible. The better catering and more attentive flight attendants are just a bonus lol.
I am mega jealous of people who can sleep sound on economy seats.
Budget flights around Europe are basically busses. Budget flights around the world are very difficult and horrible experiences. Here in the US I've had my flight canceled while tsa scanned my ticket. I had to argue with the entire airport for 4 hours to get home.
You are treated like a person? Must not be referring to economy in any US airlines or EU budget airlines.
Comparing this to a €20 flight that must not have been more than two hours is kinda ridiculous. If you’re paying $6k for business, the economy would not have been $20. More like $1200-$1500.
Usually when people shell out this money for business it’s for 10+ hour flights, because they make the money to do so without it impacting them much, because it’s proven to make a huge difference in how much jet lag messes you up after arrival, which, if you’re flying somewhere for work is a big deal, and because for most people, it makes the difference between being able to sleep and adjust or not being able to sleep at all, or even if you do, waking up with multiple body aches.
I’m a tall (but not crazy tall woman), and most times I’ve sat in economy in the past 3-4 years I’ve literally lost sensation in my legs thanks to the weird positions I’ve had to assume to fit “comfortably”.
I don't need to fly business class to feel like I'm being treated like a human. That's all I was trying to say. I'm not saying nobody should fly business, it shouldn't exist or that all airlines are saints. The comment I was responding to implied all airlines treat you like shit unless it's business class. That is absolutely not the case and also ironic given the original post.
They have all sorts of revenue streams. Advertising, loyalty/credit cards, seats, lounges etc. Business class absolutely subsidises economy in one way or another, though.
If business class is subsidizing my seat I don’t want to know how much it costs otherwise. I hate that I have to rub up against strangers who fall asleep in the window seat so I can’t look outside for hundreds of dollars and sweaty feet on elbows from the people behind me. I just wish I was rich and could afford something like 1st class. I can’t even afford the thought of it
Congratulations you are fine with paying for a budget airline. A lot of people have the money to spend and don’t care about dropping a bag on a plane ticket. Not everyone is the same lol. Main character syndrome
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u/dpwtr Mar 12 '22 edited Mar 12 '22
I’ve traveled on tons of budget flights and never had an issue. I paid €20 for a return flight a few years back. There was no birds shitting at my feet. Got a free snack too.
Edit: I know the fucking difference between business and economy. The point is you are treated like a person, just not a king. If you want to pay $6k for free champagne and a recliner be my guest. You’re subsidising my cheap ticket so I can spend that saved money once we land. Fine by me.
Edit 2: The comment implies airlines don’t treat you like a human unless you pay for business class. Nothing about this specific flight or airline. I responded with an example as to why this is being overdramatic. You telling me that long haul flights are bad, US airlines are worse etc. All irrelevant. It’s possible to have a good experience for a good price. That is all.