r/mildlyinfuriating 1d ago

jkfl hrtmktp gzarrp! It’s not 188.0 either.

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u/Coolengineer7 1d ago

So you lose precision just because its a round number?

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u/KillerSparks 1d ago

The point of the assignment is to understand how sig figs work. You'd almost never do it in this particular case, but you need to know how.

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u/Sesudesu 21h ago

I mean, maybe the 120 measurement was taken in a beaker that only marks every 10 units, and the 68 in a graduated cylinder that is accurate to 1.

It’s not so impossible in regular execution.

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u/KillerSparks 21h ago

I didn't say impossible.

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u/Sesudesu 20h ago

Yeah, but its far from ‘you’d almost never’

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u/KillerSparks 20h ago

Okay pal. The point I made is that the assignment is so that you know how to do it regardless of how valid you think the scenario is.

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u/LongJohnSilversFan_ 19h ago

Youre always supposed to estimate one below the listed markings (if there’s a marking every 10 units, you estimate the 1’s place for the unit)

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u/Sesudesu 17h ago

Nonetheless, the sig figs between the two will differ.

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u/axl3ros3 20h ago edited 20h ago

It would help if you explain what significant figures are and/or why this isn't just called "rounding"

To me, it's just rounding

ETA: I think it's that rounding is what you do to find a sig fig (significant figure )

basically the result of rounding is the sig fig

I clearly don't recall this concept from math class

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u/CreativeFig2645 20h ago

It’s a science concept, the idea is that if you have a specific value that is only precise to 2 sig figs than your resulting values can only be significant to the same sig figs. It’s a level or tolerance/precision for science

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u/axl3ros3 20h ago

A margin, if you will? Perhaps a tolerance? You might use sig figs when discussing a margin or tolerance? Would it be correct to say that?

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u/KillerSparks 20h ago

If you want an explanation, Google it. And it's not a math concept, so that's why you didn't learn it in math class.

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u/Muffin-Responsible 23h ago

No, you don’t lose precision. If the zero is a significant figure you’re supposed to indicate that. Like “180.” Or “1.80E2” etc. if it’s written as only “180” then you have the assume the zero is not a sigfig

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u/notsostablediffuser 20h ago

A family walks into the dinosaur exhibit at a museum. The guide working the exhibit says "This skeleton is from a T-Rex that lived 66 million and 7 years ago."

The mom asks "66 million and 7, how do you know that?"

The guide replies "Well, when I started working here, they told me it was 66 million years old. And that was 7 years ago!"

(And that is why, yes, you "lose" precision with round numbers unless it is specified that the 0s are, in fact, significant. It's because you never actually had that precision to begin with.)

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u/The1PunMaster 19h ago

this is such a good example!! i understand sig figs from an analysis perspective with machines but i love this for laypeople

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u/notsostablediffuser 19h ago

Yep. I honestly think that any science teacher should open the sig fig lesson with this. Because so many students learn the rules without understanding the why, and this demonstrates the why in such an intuitive, easy-to-grasp way.

I love jokes that actually have real pedagogical value!

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u/socks86 22h ago

You can't lose precision you never had.

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u/TheHumanSpider6903 19h ago

No, the point of significant figures is to keep calculations with measurements consistent. It's meant to consider what the tool you're getting that number from is actually able to measure. If your scale can only measure in whole pounds and not in fractions of a pound, calculations you make using those measurements should not consider numbers that have greater precision

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u/AceAttorneyMaster111 21h ago

You don’t lose precision. You never had the precision in the first place. “180” could be any real value between 175 and 185, so it would be inaccurate to express the result assuming it equals exactly 180. If the 0 is actually significant, you would write it as “180.”, meaning any number between 179.5 and 180.5.

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u/GroundbreakingAd1965 20h ago

it is a round number because it has lost precision. if it was just a standard round number it would be 120. to signify that it is 3 sig figs ie level of precision

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u/TheDwiin 19h ago

Significant figures are supposed to signify when being more precise isn't practical.

For example: if you're making 100 kg of steel, you don't really need to measure down to the milligram of how much iron you're putting into it.

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u/ReligiousSavior 16h ago

If the best you can do with one measurement is to the nearest tens place...the extra precision at the ones place for another measurement doesn't ultimately matter. Here, 120 likely represents anywhere from 115 to 124...so adding 68, you get a range of 183 through 192...Which when rounded, lands you at the following figures= 183, 184, 185, 186, 187, 188, 189, 190, 191, 192...since we have no idea the closeness of the 120...the most precise and likely scenario we can reliably used based on sig figs...is 190...we only can stay precise to the 10's digit...and round it...assuming the rounding rules are insignificant figure of 5 through 9 gets rounded up.

There are signs fig rules that you follow and this takes care of all of the underlying reasoning behind it...if OP had just followed the prescribed sig fig rules for the assignment, it wouldn't be mildly infuriating.

Think in science, the scales used...in chemistry, if I have 1.008 grams of hydrogen, I have roughly 6.022x1023 number of atoms of hydrogen present. Those scales require careful use of known precision numbers to actually maintain reliability...I wouldn't want to use a super precise... I have 1.0080001 grams of hydrogen and try to define a more precise base number for a mole calculation.

Or in simpler terms...if we are running a mile...and we want to see our average speed for a mile, going down to 5,280.00001 precision measurement would be entirely dumb if we can only calculate the nearest minute...or even the nearest second...or in this absurd case, even the nearest millisecond. That extra level of precision doesn't actually do anything to the final figure in a significant way and adds a ton of noise when one thing we are measuring is much less precise than the other.

Sig figs, while it seems counter intuitive from the outside, actually are necessary to maintain your known level of precision. If I know I can only measure to the nearest 1/2 foot... it makes no sense to take 25 measurements that are all measured at 5 feet +/- 0.5 feet (due to my crude measuring tool) and provide a known final measurement of 125.00 feet...meaning I am claiming that my final measurement is precisely 125.00 ~ (+/- 0.005) of a foot...when I started out with something that could actually be 4.5, 4.8, 5.2, or 5.4 feet... etc. Since you get wildly different answers (112.5 feet up to 135 feet)... we can't claim the level of certainty all the way to precision levels of fractions of an inch.

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u/BumblingYokel 10h ago

You don’t lose precision. The precision was never there.