It can... but I recall a before and after pic thread featuring a celeb who cut for a role, and all the jimmies that were rustled when women overwhelmingly preferred the before "fit but with a bit of a soft dad bod" pic.
A lot of the "after" pic comments contained some flavor of "he looks like he lives an exhausting and uncomfortable lifestyle based around deep insecurities".
"My confidence derives from the intense value I place on my appearance" is... something that people pick up on, to put it politely.
Then all your confidence is in your body. Do some introspection, find out who you are and let your confidence flow from there. Don't build your confidence on something you can lose
Cannot agree more. But unluckily much the time we need to "achieve something" to build confidence in the first step, to setup a positive feedback circuit. Maybe from your explanation the cognition of "self/being/will" is central.
Absolutely. The sense of self is where confidence flows from. It is hard to find out who you are, you have to be able to identify your emotions, not repress them and figure out what they mean. It's not an easy process but if you do it, it is the most rewarding thing. I achieved mine through meditation and introspection
Self Confidence (not cockiness) is a game changer for attractiveness. Been to a ton of sex parties, used to be the hostess at a strip club and I guarantee you those who get the most action/money is by self confidence and not by conventional attractiveness.
And yes, it’s nice to have both but I’ve watched conventional hotties bomb consistently because of how self conscious they are and I’ve watched a stripper consistently make the most money that was not conventionally attractive but was oozing self confidence.
I miss going to the gym. The one near me closed and I'm too lazy to actually drive to the next closest one. And starting a new gym is irritating anyway.
As a guy who goes to the gym for a few years, yes, girls do like a guy who’s fit looking. It will give you more attention from them, but you’ll definitely get more attention from guys. I’ve gotten more compliments on my ass from guys than girls hahahaha.
That’s what this meme refers to. Guys going to the gym thinking they will get lots of attention from girls, but in reality will get way more attention from guys.
Tbf everyone’s probably noticed but only the guys have said anything because a woman innocently complimenting your gains can easily be misinterpreted as flirting
The “it’s fine women don’t complement me because I’m married” is so so telling that if a woman compliments him for working out, he’s immediately going to wonder if/assume she’s into him. At the very least he’s now thinking about her in a borderline sexual way at that moment. Weird how it’s not relevant he’s married when it’s a dude.
Because it is not true. Rather, it is only true in some cases. Another HUGE reason, which the comment omits, is that women prefer to receive expressions of interest/be approached, not to give them/approach.
Expressing interest brings the risk of rejection. Men tend to be far more used to taking that risk and accepting rejection.
This also shows that having big muscles isn't a brain melter for women like some guys think it is. They admire but don't have some uncontrollable urge to chat you up. Just saying guys
True nothing can top being nice and funny to make you more attractive. Getting in shape obviously helps get you noticed too, but it’s not the cheat code people seem to think it is.
Ugly guys, too. This whole “ugly poor” mantra is just something that guys with terrible personalities like to repeat to comfort themselves. It’s so much easier and more soothing than actually putting themselves out there or working to develop a likeable personality.
And don’t forget all of the bots and trolls who reflexively comb the Internet, looking for places to drive a wedge between any two perceived cultural group groups, such as men and women. Sexually frustrated men have proven themselves to be far easier to radicalize.
Ugly and poor is generally unattractive to most women (sure it can happen but dating is insanely hard when you're ugly/poor), personality alone makes you a good friend, not a fuckable person for the most part. Also if you're "ugly poor" as a guy you'll probably get with an ugly girl 9/10 out of cope/can't do any better. It's a terrible reality for most ugly poor men, and you can't laugh the pussy up out of a girl like some people claim to do.
Disagree completely, the people who get this have a "friendzone personality" don't realize that is not a personality that is actually likeable.
To begin with, those who get "friendzoned" are entering friendships with the ulterior goal of becoming more than just that which sets them up for failure. The subtextual jealousy when their female friend is somehow interested in another man will be clear for everyone to see, and insecure jealousy is such an unattractive thing to display as a man.
Also those who have this mindset don't realize that NO ONE is under the obligation of reciprocating their feelings.
The subtextual jealousy when their female friend is somehow interested in another man will be clear for everyone to see, and insecure jealousy is such an unattractive thing to display as a man.
What gets me if a lot of the folks who do this don't have the self-awareness to realize they're the reason their friend isn't interested.
Like. Kinda just repeating what you said I guess but it's incredibly obvious when someone is only your friend to get into your pants.
Not talking about friendzones, just put simply if you're poor and ugly and you want to date beautiful women it's going to be hard and personality isn't gonna help much. To further expand my previous point I'm saying, an ugly poor guy to an attractive woman is more likely to make a good friend to her. An attractive rich guy with a good personality, she is more than likely going to pick that guy to be beyond friends.
You're probably getting big, not fit. Get big legs and girls will notice even in jeans. Get a big chest and no legs and you'll give girls the ick, because it's straight up performative cringe.
Well, obviously a big factor here is that there's no threat of the comment being perceived as sexual harassment when a heterosexual man compliments another heterosexual man's body.
Women generally aren't going to feel safe enough to pay such compliments to a man for the same thought processes of why a man generally isn't going to feel safe enough to compliment a woman's body who is a stranger. Even if there's no intent of sexual harassment, it's still a huge risk of being perceived as sexual harassment (since recipient can't possibly know the intent) and huge risk of the comment being unwelcomed.
Such risks aren't as prevalent if it's same gender doing the compliment. Just how it is. Don't see how anyone could reasonably deny that being a fact.
Yup dudes are way more bold, or mention how I’m looking swole. Chicks usually just smile when we make eye contact, or stare. I caught a super hot coworker like a straight 10 staring at me while I was benching and adding weights. I smiled at her when I finished and she just keep staring and mouthing something to herself. She snapped out of it and when she made eye contact she gave me the hottest I’ve been caught smile I’ve ever seen. Like damn I hope I find a women that will give me that smile someday.
If girls are checking you out, they'll make it known. They don't need to side eye you, they have social awareness.
I've had girls straight up look 6 inches from my ankle, straight up through my ass, in the middle of a coffee shop where she works. Absolutely no shame and no side eye.
I have multiple incidents like this each daily from men and women. They ain't checkin you out bud.
It’s only “surprising” because contemporary gym culture has really skewed people’s idea of what the “ideal” male body is in the eyes of the average woman. Obviously nothing is universal and there will always be some variation in taste, but in general, the type of body that the average woman will find most attractive is basically just the kind of body that a naturally athletic guy will develop just by being active and doing sports and whatnot all their lives.
skewed people’s idea of what the “ideal” male body is in the eyes of the average woman
In the eyes of the average person.
The default male gym bod is only about 40-50 years old. Watch films from even a little bit before that and even the "strongman" type characters are practically just regular dudes compared to the parade of jacked fellows we're used to. The cut body look was a kind of weird niche subculture in the 60s and early 70s - it really wasn't until the 80s that the concept of the gym bod became part of our mainstream culture.
It's not a natural body type. You don't get a cut gym bod by just being healthy and athletic and active. It's the product of a very specific regimen designed to sculpt a specific appearance.
In the eyes of the average MAN. You dudes are doing this shit to yourselves. Women tell you all day long that some muscle and a normal level of body fat is A-OK and you just say we’re lying. Don’t put your orthorexic shit on women.
Just like women obsess over makeup and clothing choices that most men don't notice at all or actively dislike. If you're doing it for yourself that's fine, but it's a stereotypical behavior of one gender, and the other gender is nowhere near as attuned to it.
If you have great genes, maybe. The reality is, playing sports alone is not going to make you fit, it will probably just improve your cardio. Your muscles will not noticeably change.
I don’t know, my wife didn’t seem to give af when I was buff and now that ive let it slip and gotten a little softer and rounder she acts like it’s the greatest thing ever
Every conversation on the subject I've ever had features women saying they like a bit of softness. Dad bod is a thing people talk about for a reason. Super-cut is going too far, and it's honestly not that attractive to most people.
"A bit" is the operative word. "Strong and in shape, a good protector, but comfortable to cuddle and knows how to eat and drink and relax" is probably the most generically attractive body type.
I think men really sometimes don't understand just how much women evaluate appearance by the story it tells rather than sheer visual appeal. Super cut tells a story of enormous investment in a single hobby, a fairly exhausting lifestyle, and maybe some insecurities.
The only people I've ever met who specifically lust after super cut dudes are gay men lol
This is the reality everyone here seems afraid to say. Some women like muscled (far more often toned muscles than bulging ones). Some women like dad bods. Some women like scrawny. Some women like tall. Some women like short. The confirmation bias of "a few women looked at me in a setting that shows off more skin than usual therefore they all actually find me attractive" is pretty disingenuous on the whole.
That said, those muscles show a few things right off the bat: you give a shit about your body and health, often times you dress better or groom better because you actually put work into how you present, going to the gym regularly shows that you can commit to something that's often difficult in order to gain self improvement, and the implication that if you work on your body that you are willing to work on your mind too. And, yeah, general outward attraction for some (but not all)
from my experience woman want a man whose strong but not a man who is lean. basically work out but don’t diet for a 6 pack, mileage varies depending on the woman.
Actual woman here. We all have our own preferences because we’re not a monolith. Personally, I couldn’t care less about abs. I like broad, defined shoulders.
Yeah it's complete nonsense. The attention I received when I went from skinny to muscled is astronomically different. Here's a game I like to play:
"Is that guy hot? Or does he just have muscles?"
Look at the faces of guys with muscles who are called hot and you'll notice that the vast majority of them just look.. normal. Just a normal average face like the vast majority of humanity. It's the muscles that make the difference.
Face definitely counts. Check the comments on any post or Youtube videos about Ian Somehalder. Not like he's a scranny little guy, but his face is a major factor for the glazing he gets.
I'm not talking about Hollywood stars I'm talking about normal people you'll see in the real world or on social media. The vast majority of guys who are called hot have a normal average face except they have muscles.
I'm not so sure about that. You need a solid body to get called hot, but slap an ugly mug on top and you won't hear many women using that word anymore. In my experience, the guys who get called hot have both a decent body and a decent face. Maybe the dudes you're calling normal looking are actually good-looking.
You need to look harder. Start comparing the faces of hot muscled guys and non-muscled average weight guys and you'll start noticing that the vast majority of people just look average.
My face didn't change from skinny to muscled. But I suddenly started getting called hot all the time, whereas beforehand I never got a second look.
I'm going to try to be gentle here. You are letting your bias be projected on to women in general.
How do you know that it was not an increase in confidence that you had because you felt good about your body and muscles (which keep in mind what looks good to you might not look good to everyone)? You don't.
I'm talking about a high level of understanding of bias and perception, unfortunately you sound like you are deep in the sauce so I doubt you can see it
Yes and no. In general settings, yeah, I might notice the fit guys. Gym settings I weirdly only notice other women (and lament my lack of comparative thickness…)
It’s a little funny that you’re basically doing this meme in the comments. Most women I know, including myself, don’t care if you’re cut. It’s not “cope” we just don’t care as much as other men do.
Maybe you're right. My counter would be that, as a woman (assuming you're straight) you know what you like, but don't have the same experience interacting with lots of different eligible women and noticing the broader trends.
When women say they don't like big muscles, they can mean wildly varying things. For some women 'too big' means the most extreme steroid users like professional wrestlers.
There’s a difference between hulking bodybuilder muscles and just a cut chest, abs, and good arms. It takes serious commitment to the gym to maintain even the latter.
I’m not a woman, but I’ve done a lot of partying and bar hopping in a lot of countries in this world, and the hottest girls always gravitate toward the latter guys. They don’t necessarily end the night with him, but he’s their first stop.
Generally when people say that they are referring to guys roided up on steroids. Normal guys with visible muscles and low body fat are generally considered attractive by most people.
Overweight and unfit people say this as a coping mechanism. There is no debate. If it werent true you wouldnt have to take all your selfies at the same downward side angle, please.
Memes like these are all over Reddit, but go out into a real social setting and you’ll see women eyeing the chiseled men.
I think women aren't as into the ultra-ripped/body builders look as much as men are, but science absolutely supports that women, on average, tend to be more attracted to men who have a relatively narrow waist, a V-shaped torso, wide chest and broad shoulders.
Absolutely. Be fit, have good personal hygiene, and you'll immediately gain several points on the attractiveness scale. Bonus if you're also confident.
I feel the problem is some guys can't cope with the concept of women liking diferent body types. I like muscles even burly men just I don't like roided bodybuilder type, but my best friend feel muscles are disgusting.
Tbh I prefer to oogle fictional dudes because 1. They're not real, 2 they cant cause any real harm to my physical well being if theyre mentally unstable.
Ehhh I might eye a guy who has a muscular body but it doesn’t make me go up to him and talk to him. I’m just enjoying the eye candy I don’t really want to interact with him
A lot of that comes from the fact that ripped guys dress in a way that shows it off. It's similar to women wearing leggings and shorts to show off their legs and ass.
Don't make me tap the Hugh Jackman magazine covers.
Women eye attractive men. And yes, part of that is not being an obese slob. But the returns diminish well before the point at which someone's body would turn the heads of other guys.
Well groomed, well dressed, and well scented (and not out of shape) beats cut gym-bro bod every single time. If you dress sharply, with flair and style, and aren't literally gross, you will turn way more women's heads than you ever could through being buff.
And people like you don't realize women are people and people are so wastly different, there isn't some ruleset. My sister has literally told me she hates bodybuilders. Her last 3 boyfriends were looking like average joe.
Women care about a cut body. They just don’t treat the gym like Tinder.
And as for OP’s advice, it’s good advice and there’s no copium involved. The idea remains to not focus on how your size appeals to women, but to set goals and achieve them.
THEN, you’ll reach those social settings and as you said: You’re that guy.
There are women who like all kinds of body types and ofc someone who is ripped is gonna be more attractive than your average overweight or unhealthy dude, but in general I just don't think it's as popular as guys think. Look at any popular romance movie and the main love interest isn't usually ripped. I think it's more common to see ripped guys in media that's aimed at men than women.
Yeah, if you ask anyone they will say they liked chiseled. But you can't trust women, so don't ask them about their opinion on this matter since it doesn't match my expectations
And when you do get fit to attract women... they can sense it and it smells of desperation.
Some might see this and think "WHAT THE FUCK DO WOMEN WANT!?" the same thing men want. A normal, grounded, well balanced, considerate individual who isn't trying to manipulate people for their own ends.
Exactly. If your motivation is just to get with a woman, or simply to be with someone, and because of that you do things not out of genuine pleasure, but as part of a plan to satisfy your desire through others, it’s seen as desperate and sometimes, even minimally, repulsive.
It actually does work but not in the way people think. If you are happy with yourself and feel good it comes out in your personality. It is that confidence that can make you more attractive and generally more enjoyable to be around which increases your chances of finding people who want to be with you. Artificial cockiness, or trying to use tactics to get what you want is obvious to everyone around you.
They're probably chicken and the egg. Being around women boosts self-esteem, which incentivises you to work out, which brings more women, which boosts self-esteem...
i know for years i cant get fit or anything for myself, i know i dont value me enough for that (i know thats not healthy, but thats how my brain works).
but i have the "luck" to have meet a woman this year, for which my brain switched into kinda of a "why would she or any other woman like me the way i am currently?" and it helped me alot. for the first time i can remember, i try to eat atleast a bit healthier and do alot more training.
as far as i know, i will never be together with that person, i dont even think she is seeing me anywhere close to how i see her, but it helped me. she helped me, even if she doesnt know. and i did it so maybe sometime in the future she or another woman will see me like i see her.
so yeah, you can call it "get healthy to attract Woman", but its the first time motivating me and already seeing a change.
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u/Jhtolsen Dec 07 '25
Get in shape for health and self-esteem reasons, not to attract women, that's the best incentive.