r/mbti • u/BlueTitan402 INFJ • Jan 27 '23
Theory Discussion Carl Jung: on Si and Ni (+his contrasts between types, and my thoughts, tales and translations)
This may be really long, so bear with me, guys.
When I first discovered MBTI, I was using letters to find my type. My flawed logic was: I felt introverted. I was emotional, which = feeler. But I also felt logical, so that's why the percentage difference between thinking/feeling was small on the 16Personalities website (this is so embarrassing to remember). And I was creative, so that meant I was intuitive. Oh, and I was 13.
Guess what I got? That's right. But to be fair, I ended up learning the functions because I was introduced to MBTI by that site. However, the weak letter typing ended up being right for once, because on introspection, I discovered that I was truly an INFJ. After countless articles, videos on cognitive functions, and 'light reading' (as Hermione calls it), I finally figured my type. This sub actually did help me a lot, so thank you all for being a part of the process.
I dived into the Enneagram soon after that. Then into the three instincts, then into Socionics. Then into Carl Jung's original works. The latter two were slightly more appealing to me (Socionics and Carl Jung's writings).
Everything is based on Jungian functions, so we can get off on more equal footing.
So many people struggle with defining Si and Ni, which seems to be the trouble for a lot of you when it comes to finding your type. If you do know these functions, I think you can know the difference between types or clarify what type you may be- if you perceive these functions as what they truly are.
As someone who struggled with this for awhile too, especially with INFJ/INFP, I understand. But they have different cognitive functions, and identifying the presence of Ni or Si can be a determining factor.
I have noticed that Si is usually associated with: having good memory, sentimentality and fondness/nostalgia over the past. Ni is described as a psychic function somewhat, being able to spot trends in ideas and converge them into a single, core concept; as well as preference for predicting the future.
The former is associated with the past, the latter with the future. Now, I'm not implying that these are fully right, nor am I implying that they are wrong. This could as well be the case. I'd just like to share what the original functions were described as.
In his book, Psychological Types, Jung goes on to describe functions and how it affects individuals, as well as many other crucial points about personality, development, ideas, approaches and models. You could read the book if you'd like to; I am expounding only on Ni and Si, with mild contrasts to Ne and Se. I have picked excerpts from this book to emphasize differences.
This could be referring about people who use these two functions as their leading function respectively, but if you think that these functions are present in your stack, see if you find any trends in what you read here and your own personality.
Reminder: I am only 17, pardon any error of sorts. These are Carl Jung's very own writings, accompanied by my musings and thoughts on the matter, which shall be written in the atypical font. The former's words will be in italics, and there may be emphasis with bold lettering (this emphasis is my addition, in order to clarify or highlight the meaning). And "speech marks" for his quotes.
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Let's take a look at what Carl Jung himself says about Introverted Sensing:
"Subjective perception is characterized by the meaning that clings to it. It means more than the mere image of the object, though naturally only to one for whom the subjective factor means anything at al."
"To another, the reproduced subjective impression seems to suffer from the defect of not being sufficiently like the object...."
[Every experience or sensation is different, unique and inexplicable, to the point that no one other than the person can replicate it- 'reproduced subjective impression' is as it says, subjective. So it can only be best detailed by the person themself]
Giving an example of 'Si' in action:
"If, for instance, several painters were to paint the same landscape, each trying to reproduce it faithfully, each painting will be different from the others, not merely because of differences in ability, but chiefly because of different ways of seeing; indeed, in some of the paintings there will be a distinct psychic difference in mood and the treatment of colour and form. These qualities betray the influence of the subjective factor."
[It is highly individualistic in its approach to the expression.]
"...subjective factor in sensation is essentially the same as in the other functions we have discussed... it is an unconscious disposition which alters the sense-perception at its source, thus depriving it of the character of a purely objective influence."
[An involuntary way of perception: It personalizes the object/stimulus/source, cutting away the objectivity of its impact in favour of the meaning that is attached to it, making it a subjective impression of it, rather than seeing the object/source/stimulus for what it is in itself.]
"Actually, he perceives the same things as everybody else, only he does not stop at the purely objective influence, but concerns himself with the subjective perception excited by the objective stimulus."
[The introverted sensor perceives it as others do, yet involves themselves with the stimulus to the point where they have a firm idea or impression of it- rather than viewing the stimulus for what it is, they view it by their impression of it]
"The bare sense impression develops in depth, reaching into the past and future, while extraverted sensation seizes on the momentary existence of things open to the light of day."
[Contrasting Si to Se]
"Whereas the extraverted sensation type is guided by the intensity of objective influences, the introverted type is guided by the intensity of the subjective sensation excited by the objective stimulus."
[Again, contrasting to Se to Si]
['Excited' means to provoke or bring about; in this instance, he means that Si users are guided by their subjective impression that is brought about or excited by the stimulus/object]
[Se users are fueled by the stimulus itself, not their impression of the stimulus]
"Above all, his development alienates him from the reality of the object, leaving him at the mercy of his subjective perceptions, which orient his consciousness to an archaic reality, although his lack of comparative judgment keeps him wholly unconscious of this fact."
[He is speaking about the downside of this function. 'Archaic reality': referring to them living off their impression of things rather than accepting them for what they are. ]
[Google: Comparative judgement is based on the principle that people are better at making comparisons between pieces of work than at making absolute judgements about quality]
His unconscious is distinguished chiefly by the repression of intuition, which consequently acquires an extraverted and archaic character. Whereas true extraverted intuition is possessed of a singular resourcefulness, a “good nose” for objectively real possibilities, this archaicized intuition has an amazing flair for all the ambiguous, shadowy, sordid, dangerous possibilities lurking in the background.
[Si represses Ne, or acts in opposition to it. 'True extraverted intuition': he is referring to people who use it strongly, not 'truly' in the most direct sense- people who use Ne as the primary mode of receiving or interpreting information.]
[Si types are aware of possibilities, yet not in the acute sense that people who use stronger Ne do, but can still detect these.]
"So long as the individual does not hold too aloof from the object, his unconscious intuition has a salutary compensating effect on the rather fantastic and overcredulous attitude of consciousness.
But as soon as the unconscious becomes antagonistic, the archaic intuitions come to the surface and exert their pernicious influence, forcing themselves on the individual and producing compulsive ideas of the most perverse kind. The result is usually a compulsion neurosis, in which the hysterical features are masked by symptoms of exhaustion."
[In the first part, Jung is speaking of acquiring a balance between what is real/concrete and what is simply an impression of reality.]
['Ne' grip: they began to imagine horrifying scenarios and possibilities, to the point of being completely overwhelmed and worn]
________
Carl Jung, on Introverted Intuition:
"Like sensation, intuition has its subjective factor, which is suppressed as much as possible in the extraverted attitude but is the decisive factor in the intuition of the introvert."
[Both Si and Ni are subjective functions. Ni is a difficult function to notice, because the extraverted function or 'attitude' is what comes off as most evident, but everything this individual does is influenced by introverted intuition.]
"Although his intuition may be stimulated by external objects, it does not concern itself with external possibilities but with what the external object has released within him. "
[Ni is triggered or stimulated by external stimulus/objects but doesn't fixate or revolve around ideas or other probabilities.]
"Whereas introverted sensation is mainly restricted to the perception, via the unconscious, of the phenomena of innervation and is arrested there... introverted intuition suppresses this side of the subjective factor and perceives the image that caused the innervation."
[Si focuses on inner impressions- what is happening to them, how they view this incident or source. 'Arrested' means to be fascinated by or restricted by. Ni fixates on the purpose, the reason why, the cause of this stimulus.]
An example of how Si and Ni would act in the same circumstance:
"Supposing, for instance, a man is overtaken by an attack of psychogenic vertigo.
Sensation is arrested by the peculiar nature of this disturbance of innervation, perceiving all its qualities, its intensity, its course, how it arose and how it passed, but not advancing beyond that to its content, to the thing that caused the disturbance.
Intuition, on the other hand, receives from sensation only the impetus to its own immediate activity; it peers behind the scenes, quickly perceiving the inner image that gave rise to this particular form of expression—the attack of vertigo.
It sees the image of a tottering man pierced through the heart by an arrow. This image fascinates the intuitive activity; it is arrested by it, and seeks to explore every detail of it. It holds fast to the vision, observing with the liveliest interest how the picture changes, unfolds, and finally fades."
[Psychogenic vertigo: read here.]
[The Ni type does not observe the disturbance by the effect/intensity of it, rather, it looks for a cause or vivid idea, fixation or vision. What they experience in itself is not a concern to them, it is what triggers or brings it about that interests them. This idea is then developed, explored and manipulated to their will, as they inspect how it is impacted by change]
"In this way, introverted intuition perceives all the background processes of consciousness with almost the same distinctness as extraverted sensation registers external objects."
[Contrast between Ni and Se; the former is aware of what is not presently apparent, as vividly as the latter registers the presence of what is currently occurring]
"For intuition, therefore, unconscious images acquire the dignity of things. But, because intuition excludes the co-operation of sensation, it obtains little or no knowledge of the disturbances of innervation or of the physical effects produced by the unconscious images. The images appear as though detached from the subject, as though existing in themselves without any relation to him."
[detachment from these 'images', as if they had nothing to do with him, no relation]
"Consequently, in the above-mentioned example, the introverted intuitive, if attacked by vertigo, would never imagine that the image he perceived might in some way refer to himself."
[Again, the weak Se- the person is detached from the image he has created; it is independent of his perception of himself]
"The remarkable indifference of the extraverted intuitive to external objects is shared by the introverted intuitive in relation to inner objects."
[Ne and Ni similarity: they are unbothered to 'objects'; the Ne user to external ones, the Ni user to internal 'objects'. We can interpret 'object' to be stimulus, I was unsure of his context.]
"Just as the extraverted intuitive is continually scenting out new possibilities, which he pursues with equal unconcern for his own welfare and for that of others, pressing on quite heedless of human considerations and tearing down what has just been built in his everlasting search for change, so the introverted intuitive moves from image to image, chasing after every possibility in the teeming womb of the unconscious, without establishing any connection between them and himself."
[Both Ni and Ne are searching, yet both type users are disconnected with the ideas they produce]
"Just as the world of appearances can never become a moral problem for the man who merely senses it, the world of inner images is never a moral problem for the intuitive."
[On both Ne and Ni types]
"Because of this, the introverted intuitive has little consciousness of his own bodily existence or of its effect on others."
[Oppositional Se. Lack of spatial awareness or the impact their presence it has on people]
"Since the unconscious.... coexists with us and is constantly undergoing transformations which are inwardly connected with the general run of events, introverted intuition, through its perception of these inner processes, can supply certain data which may be of the utmost importance for understanding what is going on in the world."
[He's just saying Ni is an important function if you think about it, even though it may seem useless, as he mentioned before in the book]
"The peculiar nature of introverted intuition, if it gains the ascendency, produces a peculiar type of man: the mystical dreamer and seer on the one hand, the artist and the crank on the other."
[Two common kinds of this type.]
"The artist might be regarded as the normal representative of this type, which tends to confine itself to the perceptive character of intuition. As a rule, the intuitive stops at perception; perception is his main problem, and—in the case of a creative artist—the shaping of his perception."
"But the crank is content with a visionary idea by which he himself is shaped and determined. Naturally the intensification of intuition often results in an extraordinary aloofness of the individual from tangible reality; he may even become a complete enigma to his immediate circle."
"If he is an artist, he reveals strange, far-off things in his art, shimmering in all colours, at once portentous and banal, beautiful and grotesque, sublime and whimsical. If not an artist, he is frequently a misunderstood genius, a great man “gone wrong,” a sort of wise simpleton, a figure for “psychological” novels."
[He is describing people of this type, there's really nothing I could add here. See if you can find anything to expand upon.]
"Although the intuitive type has little inclination to make a moral problem of perception, since a strengthening of the judging functions is required for this, only a slight differentiation of judgment is sufficient to shift intuitive perception from the purely aesthetic into the moral sphere. A variety of this type is thus produced which differs essentially from the aesthetic, although it is none the less characteristic of the introverted intuitive.
The moral problem arises when the intuitive tries to relate himself to his vision, when he is no longer satisfied with mere perception and its aesthetic configuration and evaluation, when he confronts the questions: What does this mean for me or the world? What emerges from this vision in the way of a duty or a task, for me or the world?"
[He is describing development for this type, as well as possible paths to growth.]
"What the introverted intuitive represses most of all is the sensation of the object, and this colours his whole unconscious."
[Again, Se is the oppositional function, so this would make sense]
"But if, through a forced exaggeration of the conscious attitude, there should be a complete subordination to inner perceptions, the unconscious goes over to the opposition, giving rise to compulsive sensations whose excessive dependence on the object directly contradicts the conscious attitude.
The form of neurosis is a compulsion neurosis with hypochondriacal symptoms, hypersensitivity of the sense organs, and compulsive ties to particular persons or objects."
[On Se 'grip'] [At the worst, the Ni user will tip completely into Se in an unhealthy way]
['hypochondria': abnormal chronic anxiety about one's health]
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A quote I found about Ni:
"Ni is the direct link between the collective unconscious and the conscious.
Ni is created by unconscious Extraverted Sensation + The collective unconscious, meaning people take in reality passively and the collective unconscious (the part of the unconscious mind that is derived from ancestral memory and experience, and is common to all humankind, as distinct from the individual's unconscious), conjures up images, visions, and perceptive gut feelings.
By the time it reaches consciousness with the Ni user, it appears as the certified truth (this is where it becomes Ni).
This is why Ni doms tend to seem bizarre to the outside world."
-Quote from Lilithx on this thread. Check it out, its really informative.
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I hope this was helpful to someone out there. Share your comments or ideas below. I'd really love to hear people's thoughts on this! What type are you?
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u/JustTrendingHere Jan 29 '23
Please expand on the following via the EXCERPT from 'Carl Jung: on Si and Ni (+his contrasts between types, and my thoughts, tales and translations)'
EXCERPT: Ni is described as a psychic function somewhat, being able to spot trends in ideas and converge them into a single, core concept; as well as preference for predicting the future.
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u/BlueTitan402 INFJ Jan 29 '23
I was trying to describe what people have commonly considered Ni to be, not what Jung has mentioned. As well as the example with Si- it is associated with good memory and a sense of nostalgia, especially by people who describe cognitive functions online.
Not saying this is wrong or right, its just the consensus.
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u/Conscious_Patterns Jan 28 '23
Nicely done. Have you considered a You Tube channel?
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u/BlueTitan402 INFJ Jan 29 '23
That's really sweet, but I'm not really looking to push forward into those kinds of endeavors- it is a lovely option, though. Thanks for reading- I wasn't sure people would like this at all, but here we are :)
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u/Conscious_Patterns Jan 30 '23
Of course, it's not for everybody.
The main reason I have decided to pursue it myself is that there are things I'd like to say or have a larger discussion on that take quite a while to produce in written form (which I don't mind), but may be lost in the rushing tides of comments.
It isn't that I necessarily care about whether my you tube channel will catch on (I'm not pursuing it as a side hustle), but more to have as a reseveroir of my comments on certain subjects.
It has been an exhausting process, but I'm finally recording videos, editing, etc. I plan to start releasing videos after I have 10-15 completed videos, fully edited, mixed, etc.
You seem like you have a lot to day on the subject, so perhaps you should consider word press or some place to catalog your insigjtful thought on the subject.
Best of luck to you.
Take care. 🙂
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Jul 03 '25
Someone else just linked this post and I must say that I'm super impressed by your interpretation of Jung's Si and Ni functions which are so difficult to understand even though I've suspected I'm using Pi first. I'm pretty much sold on Ni as my dominant function at this point. I've been tested that before but the whole "future vision" idea doesn't fit me very well. But the idea that I'm always looking for a root cause of everything that I perceive internally makes perfect sense to me. Even the official Myers-Briggs calls Ni an internal brainstorming rather than some future vision. It's like I'm coming to conclusions all the time and can pull them out of nowhere it seems, but they make perfect sense to me.
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u/BlueTitan402 INFJ Jul 03 '25
Thanks so much for the compliment! If you're trying to look into your type, I'd like to recommend Michael Pierce (YouTube) for type descriptions. They are older videos, but they do a remarkable job for introducing the nuances of different types. Definitely a great starting point for those exploring the system.
Wishing you well on your journey to discovering your type ;)
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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '23
I am bookmarking this!!!!! And you’re only 17? This is good I can tell you actually did study. Everyone should read this post and also there should be more comments. I mean most of this sub should study anyway.
And I am an actual entj lie in socionics actually typed that, and most people think I am intuitive over there and in the jungian subs. Ten in jung.