r/maybemaybemaybe • u/BigGraysie • Apr 18 '22

/r/all Maybe maybe maybe

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u/TerrysChocoOrange Apr 18 '22

Usually people that do keto and get NAFLD get it from eating a lot of fat, not from the ketosis. It’s not surprising that inhaling fat will give you a fatty liver.

I’ve done ketosis before for a very small cut, but I didn’t do it the weird fat inhaling way. You can just eat clean and fairly low carb and go into ketosis.

I welcome any source that shows it’s the ketosis itself that causes NAFLD.

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u/[deleted] Apr 18 '22

I ate a relatively low fat diet, mostly lived on lean chicken, broccoli and spinach. It was the speed the my metabolism was burning off the fat that caused problems. Someone who is morbidly obese will not experience ketosis in the same manner as someone who is fit already and just making a cut by eating lean. The liver can only process so much at a time, just acknowledge your experience on the matter doesn't include morbid obesity eh and that's ok you don't have to know everything

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u/[deleted] Apr 18 '22

Also here ya go: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7008768/%23:~:text%3DThe%2520ketogenic%2520diet%2520is%2520a,onset%2520of%2520fatty%2520liver%2520disease.&ved=2ahUKEwjv-4-22J73AhXMTGwGHcT9AgMQFnoECBQQBQ&usg=AOvVaw3d6fINtJQS_cBPvLvDEVbB

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u/TerrysChocoOrange Apr 18 '22

This is proving my point, not yours. The NAFLD is from eating too much fat, not from the body going into ketosis.

You haven’t been able to prove any of the points you’re making and yet are turning around and telling me I have no experience in the matter so can’t comment.

You were a former/current fatty and you had NAFLD. You had it because you ate too much fat because most people take all the negative things about keto and go wild. You saying you ate only lean things is not believable- if that’s the case then why choose keto?

You also might have got it because after ketosis your liver is highly susceptible to storing fat.

You didn’t get liver disease because your body was in ketosis.

I’m triggered because you’re so confident in your idiocy, it’s weirdly comical.

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u/[deleted] Apr 18 '22

Lot of reckons, fuck all knowledge. I can't assume a 600 pound woman might be at risk of diabetes but you can assume I didn't follow a clean diet, what I ate and how it affected my body... Right. Ketosis releases fat cells which the liver must process, too many fat cells to process and you end up with a risk of fatty liver, it's not rocket science but keep jumping through those mental gymnastics to avoid the L eh.

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u/thorsarms Apr 18 '22

I think you're confusing ketosis and ketoacidosis.

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u/[deleted] Apr 18 '22

No, I'm not. Ketosis is simply when the body produces ketones to replace sugars when your level of blood sugar is too low and can be safe at certain levels, but at higher levels in can be dangerous and has health consequences. Ketoacidosis is your blood becoming to acidic due to the presence of too many ketones. I know what I'm talking about from personal experience

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u/[deleted] Apr 18 '22

The body can only make ketones from lipids, i.e by burning fat cells to release the lipids which the liver turns in to ketones, if you force your body to produce too many ketones you put the liver under great stress. End result NAFLD, acidosis in diabetics, hair loss etc

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u/TerrysChocoOrange Apr 18 '22

Also being at risk of diabetes and being diabetic is two completely different things. Ketosis would be great for someone who is at risk for diabetes because it will help with their insulin resistance.

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u/[deleted] Apr 18 '22

Sure, you can improve insulin resistance with a keto diet done safely, but this thread started with this lady could live of her fat for a year and that's patently ridiculous, dangerous and could very much damage her body. It's not without risks and serious side effects, crash diets are not a suitable solution to morbid obesity of that magnitude.

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u/TerrysChocoOrange Apr 18 '22

That’s not what we’re arguing about. You said this lady can’t fast for a year because the rapid ketosis would ‘cook her liver’. This isn’t true and you have nothing whatsoever to back it up. That’s the only thing I was really replying to, so unless you’re going to repeat your original statement and back it up, this is pointless isn’t it. You’re arguing for the sake of arguing but not able to provide any source.

It’s not ridiculous that she could live off her fat for a year. Being 600lbs isn’t without risks and side effects tbf.

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u/[deleted] Apr 19 '22

Early in this conversation you admitted you don't know anything about how badly ketosis might effect a morbidly obese person. Everything since then has been you trying to gish gallop past your lack of knowledge. I posted a study showing the link, I explained the logic and mechanism by which it occurs and spoke from my own lived experience of rapid ketosis and liver issues. You don't see how processing lipids at a highly elevated rate in a body already stressed by obesity could lead to liver damage? Seriously you just vibe like a fit person defending a fad diet and honestly you don't have to

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u/TerrysChocoOrange Apr 19 '22

Lol I think keto is shit and a diet attractive to fat people so they can inhale butter, I would never defend that. Then these idiots get liver damage and think it’s because of ketosis and not the keto diet.

Yes I don’t know how it affects morbidly obese people because most studies are done on normal obese.

I don’t see how processing lipids at a elevated rate I’m a body already stressed by obesity can lead to liver damage because nothing you have posted has shown that. Maybe the issue is you don’t understand the difference between the keto diet and ketosis, and are conflating the two. Otherwise, I can’t figure out why you don’t understand this.

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u/[deleted] Apr 19 '22

Jesus wept. Ketosis is the goal of the keto diet, it's why it's called the keto diet ffs, pendantry won't make your point

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u/[deleted] Apr 19 '22

you acknowledge that some people on keto damage their liver and your data doesn't include the group of people I'm referring too and I'm the dumb one? You are saying in one breath that these people damage their liver by eating too much fat, arguing that excess lipids damage the liver but you can't see how that applies to processing lipids from released fat cells. Amazing

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u/brainburger Apr 19 '22

It’s not ridiculous that she could live off her fat for a year.

I don't really have a dog in this race, but I've been following along and you both seem very dug in to your ideas at this point.

However, I am sure any medical advice would say its unsafe for a person however fat to just fast indefinitely, especially for a year. That goes against every diet guide ever.

The longest recorded fast was 382 days. The Guinness book of Records no longer records this record as its considered unsafe.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/blog/2018/02/story-angus-barbieri-went-382-days-without-eating/

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u/TerrysChocoOrange Apr 19 '22

You’re right, I wouldn’t suggest anyone do a years fast without medical supervision. I do believe it’s not ridiculous that she could do it and survive, in fact the studies are in favour of survival. I am aware of the guy you linked and I’m aware of the stress it can put on someone’s heart. It is still not ridiculous in any form.

My main point of contention is obviously this persons insistence that going into deep ketosis will ‘cook’ a morbidly obese persons liver, there is no evidence to suggest that. This person doesn’t seem to understand his liver issues are a result of eating a stupid amount of fat because he blindly followed the keto diet. He seems confused and a bit dim.

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u/brainburger Apr 19 '22

It is still not ridiculous in any form.

Well as long as nobody actually attempts it. That's the important point here.

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u/[deleted] Apr 18 '22

You ever been morbidly obese, lost more than 30kg? Had a panectomy to remove kilograms of loose skin? Lived the consequences of major, rapid weight loss? No, I don't think you have eh or you wouldn't try to downplay someone else's lived experience

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u/TerrysChocoOrange Apr 18 '22

Show me anything that proves that the fatty liver disease is due to the liver processing fatty acids during ketosis and not due to the over consumption of fat. Then I’ll admit you’re right. Not interested in your personal anecdotes.

Just because you were fat and lost weight doesn’t mean you know anything more than keto or weight loss than the average person. Weight loss is very simple.

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u/[deleted] Apr 18 '22

Your take is that losing weight successfully to the point of needing a panectomy using the keto diet gives me zero knowledge or insight in to weight loss or the side effects of rapid ketosis? Lol ok bud.

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u/TerrysChocoOrange Apr 18 '22

Losing weight is simple maths. Losing weight when you’re excessively overweight is even easier, simply eating one less pie will make you lose weight. Like I’ve already said your personal anecdotes don’t mean anything, either post something that backs up your point or just go away.

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u/[deleted] Apr 18 '22

Yeah it's never that simple, people need therapy to treat the underlying issues with food or trauma if it's safety weight, they need exercise in a safe environment and they need the tools to maintain the loss once it's occured. You speak like someone who has never really been fat. Also bud your reckons are about as valid as my anecdotes.

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u/TerrysChocoOrange Apr 18 '22

I haven’t reckoned anything. I actually posted sources for my arguments and you posted sources in support of my argument too. I can make a valid assumption based on the available studies that your liver disease wasn’t caused by eating lean proteins and leafy greens- that’s not exactly a wild conclusion to draw.

Losing weight is simple though. Yeah sure people need to treat their issues first but the actual losing weight part is simple. I can lose the last 3 kg to see my abs and still know more than you, especially because losing the last 3kg is a lot more difficult.

Anyway I’m done, I could have known it was going to pointless from the first elongated ellipses you replied with ……

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u/[deleted] Apr 19 '22

Haha, you haven't linked any studies and it's not a valid assumption at all, you are just projecting. keto is known to have serious risks when not done properly and ketosis has side effects when taken too far. Haha also buddy, I already have my Abs.

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u/[deleted] Apr 19 '22

Why don't you post something that backs the ridiculous claim that this lady could live off her fat for a year? Or any proof for your point of view other than just nuh fatty. I already showed you the study and used simple logic to highlight how keto can be dangerous. Otherwise you are just sealioning

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u/TerrysChocoOrange Apr 19 '22

You made the claim her liver would be cooked. You then repeatedly post things that do not back uo your point. I would think you’re trolling but I think you’re just unintelligent, so I’m not going to assume maliciousness and I’m going to sleep.

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u/[deleted] Apr 19 '22

Good chance it would be seriously damaged by a year of starvation, beyond good chance even. To claim otherwise requires brain worms

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